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Any knowledge, belief, conceptualization, feelings, visuals, thoughts, experience, POV, questions, senses vs.. comes from so called “I”. (Even saying, “I” am “god, infinite, nothing, universe, love, vs...”) Because it is still knowledge comes from “I”. If you never learn what “infinite” is, can you experience infinite? If you never learn “yourself”, can you be exist? If you never learn what “experience “ is, can you know you are experiencing? If you never learn what what “learning” is, can you learn? If you never learn what “mind” is, can mind exist? If there is no “I” what is left? Only nothingness can not be learn, experience, feel, vs... just can BE. Peace!

Right. Why do we conclude the Nothingness/Consciousness/Being as a GOD? Why Consciousness/Nothingness/being Can not be the creation of GOD?

@Leo Gura if that is the case. God is one and everything. which means God is corona virus, god is every bacteria in the toilet, evey stool etc. I like @Muhammad Jawad expressions. "What if we are misunderstanding the Our Nothingness / Consciousness with GOD? What If I (Consciousness /Being) is not GOD but I (Consciousness /Being) is a Creation of GOD from his infinite creations? What is Nothingness is actually our last boundary wall or our ultimate limitation from which we can't go beyond?"

The limitation is only of the explanation. Not of the experience(State-less, Experience-less, Non-Experience) itself. A person who has tasted sugar does not need to question about the sweetness of the sugar. Only the person who has never tasted sweetness before will keep on wondering about the sweet taste. It is guaranteed that he is never going to understand it through spoken words in the form of theoretical knowledge. Direct experience of tasting the sweetness and intellectualizing about it through words are two different things existentially. Just like a colour blind person will never understand the meaning of color and visual reality by even an infinite amount of words with which one can explain it to him. Similarly, it is said that, an unenlightened person will never understand The Non-Duality - Labelled as NON-DUALITY, BRAHMAN, GOD, NOTHINGNESS, EVERYTHINGNESS(ONENESS), etc.. which are just labels. These words don't mean anything by themselves. Just tools used by individuated(Having a formed Mind) creatures to communicate about IT. The only way to understand it is by direct experience. But, the real pickle is: Even in direct experience, it can present itself as anything and everything. It can present itself as Non-Dual Oneness; Nothingness; A GOD with a form as devotees experience it; A GOD but creation done with a separate agency; A GOD without agency; and infinite other formful or formless or something else.. something else... ways. Like mentioned above you can certainly experience exactly the way you are thinking about it. But then, that would just be a single way out of infinite other ways you can experience it. BRAHMAN / GOD can always one up against itself. There is no restriction as to what or how it can be and cannot be. It is something that doesn't have a particular designation, label, form, reality, truth, or anything for that matter. It is the very essence of the word Mystery. Even Unreality is just a state it can take; Even formlessness is just a state it can take; even Non-Existence is just a state it can take; even STATE is just a state it can present itself as. With it.. Eveything is... Without it.. Nothing is.. NOT EVEN NOTHINGNESS. Being from a Hindu background and having seen many sages from hinduism as well as other religions describing their experience of BRAHMAN / GOD as variegated ways through out history for thousands of years, and seeing each of them having unwavering faith in explaining what they experienced to be utter TRUTH and REAL. This has been confirmed that such is the case by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa by veryfing a few of these ways by direct experience. There are others sages in the past who have also been both Devotionalists as well as Non-Dualists at the same time. My present undersanding of it is that GOD / BRAHMAN is like how I have described above. Of course there is much more to each of the ways it presents itself. But, the only way I can make sense of all of it is as I explained above. One thing is for sure. There is no THE GOD or A GOD. There is just IT which presents itself as THIS & THAT. Any experience of experiencing THE GOD or A GOD is just simply a single way it is presenting itself.

GOD is infinite imagination so it is not a particular thing at all, existence is so intervowen and complex that it cant be understod, it is like conciousness has infinite layers in it, creation happens in infinite dimensions everywhere, but what the true form of GOD is , is light, you never see light , you see illumination of objects and things, God is formless LIGHT, and in it there are infinite possibilitys of everything, like an usb so full of everything that it loops back around and is the creation but at the same time transcendent of IT. God is not limited to anything, God is the awareness which shines light on infinite mind and creativity and order and CHAOS. But GOD is limited to 1 thing, and that is it's oneness or that it IS, it can not not be. Thats why there is 1 ABSOLUTE Reality and our universe is a relative thing. Nothingness and everythingness is something GOD imagines. Prior to imagination there is : ___

Thanks. I also like the ocean analogy. What if ("Being/Consciousness/Nothingness" is the ocean and manifestation is the waves of the ocean. The ocean is eternal and every wave is waving, and "Being" is not limited by any wave, and at the same time, the waves are the motion of "Being", but not directly "Being" itself in that sense.) all that phenomena of being are the creation of God? I am trying.... :-) Right

Is this a belief, Delusion, imagination, or Truth? How can we make sure that Smadhi experienced by people is GOD? Through Spiritual Practices or Psychedelics, you realize that you are not the body, mind instead you are Observer, Everything, Nothingness, Void, One with everything. Ok, We can agree that we are transparent, formless, conscious, Pure Being and we have the power to imagine and create anything like body, mind, and world. Why do we say that that powerful being is God but not the creation of God?

@Muhammad Jawad this nothingness, pure consciousness or awareness what the Gnostic call it is soul. the divine half aspect of God. the soul or higher self is all knowing consciousness but lack conscious mind. for because of this it granted unconscious mind. as substitute for the conscious mind. gnostic cosmology says God emanate himself in different order, at some order this corruptions occurred. gnostic cosmology says christ emanate different beings that are God's and sons of Gods, and at some order this corruption occurred. so we cannot say everthing is God because we are emanations of God. I agree with your idea completely "What if we misunderstood the Nothingness/Consciousness with God" we are half aspect of God by our soul, our soul is the half part of God, she God in essence but lack the conscious mind half part. Reading gnostic scripture will help.

Right. What if you (Nothingness/Consciousness/Being) is not God but the creation of God?

Hi Leo! I hope you are doing well. Is it not possible for God to limit his own infinity & then create a Void Nothingness or something outside apart separate from him and then create beings and creations and universes there in that void? Can you please help me to explain it in a bit more detail? I will be really thankful to you. I am really sorry for bothering you. Thanks

Hi @Leo Gura & Everyone else! I hope you are doing well. After years of Spiritual Practice or after taking Psychedelics, When we all reach a state where we experience nothingness, pure beingness at the same time we also feel and experience that this Nothingness being is Me my Higher Self. And then we call it GOD. We say I am Nothingness, Consciousness, Pure Beingness, I am GOD. What if we are misunderstanding the Our Nothingness / Consciousness with GOD? What If I (Consciousness /Being) is not GOD but I (Consciousness /Being) is a Creation of GOD from his infinite creations? What is Nothingness is actually our last boundary wall or our ultimate limitation from which we can't go beyond? What if GOD has created a very powerful Creation named "Being" Which can itself create infinite possibilities in itself Like Mind, Body & World....? That is already understood that We are not a body, We are not a mind, not a world but we are pure powerful Transparent formless conscious beings who can create their own Mind, Body & World. What if GOD is apart from his creations: "Beings"? To better understand what I am saying, please check the following attached Diagrams made by me: Waiting for responses. Thanks

Day 01 - 16/01/2021 - 30 mins - Morning - Done - Amazing It was really really deep. 30 mins of breathing passed as 5 mins. I was an infinite void of nothingness. It was really peaceful & Blissful. I have no feelings of Body. I detached from my body. And the body was just like a few sensations in that void. My awareness was really sharp. I felt like there were a lot of points opening up in me and at the opening of each point, It was releasing bliss & joy. By discovering my true depth, it was so profound that it made me cry. I felt like a lot of negativity was releasing. I felt very close to God. Day 02 - 17/01/2021 - 20 mins - Morning - Done - Very Good Day 03 - 18/01/2021 - 15 mins - Morning - Done - Good Day 04 - 19/01/2021 - 30 mins - Morning - Done - Good Day 04 - 19/01/2021 - 15 mins - Night (Before Sleep) - Done - Very Good It was amazing. I went into a really deep state of consciousness. I was in a void with no feeling of the body. My Visualisation and imagination power multiplied by 10. Whatever I was trying to visualize or imagine that was manifesting into that void more clearly than the normal state. I was receiving a lot of insights. I was able to experience different states of consciousness. I was able to remain aware while sleeping into Sleeping states. Hypnagogia was a lot more powerful visually. I enjoyed these experiences in that deep state a lot. I was hyperactive psychologically as well. My body was able to sleep but I was still aware of everything. Psychologically it was really hard for me to become unconscious and sleep. After 1 or 2 hours in that state, after all, I slept. Now I have feelings of very different kinds of sleep I experienced last night. I can't explain it. And my dreams were also a lot vivid than my normal routine. Day 05 - 20/01/2021 - 30 mins - Morning - Done - Very Good It was really deep & profound full of infinite bliss. I was void. It was so profound that it made me cry. I felt the closeness of God. I was talking to him. Objects in my visual field were in motion. Breath is optional. I can not die. We are afraid to kill our ego due to our own fears, desires & attachments. Day 05 - 20/01/2021 - 15 mins - Night (Before Sleep) - Done - Good (Vivid Dreams) Day 06 - 21/01/2021 - 35 mins - Morning - Done - Very Good Breathing became automatic after 25 mins. Today I was able to see colorful infinite patterns as well. I was an infinite void. Detached from the body. Flashing lights. I was in pure joy & bliss. At one point I was feeling like my heart was opening and I could feel a really peaceful void in my heart. Currents were running around in my whole body. My body was nothing but a few random sensations inside that void which was me. Day 06 - 21/01/2021 - 10 mins - Night (Before Sleep) - Done - Good The mind becomes hyperactive after the breathing exercise so after this exercise, It's hard to sleep. It takes time to go unconscious. Your awareness becomes Lazer sharp for a few minutes. After 10 mins of Breathing, I detached from the body for a few minutes. And this practice before sleep resulted in Vivid Dreams. But in the morning I forgot most of the dreams but still could recall one dream. Click here if you are interested to read that dream. Day 07 - 22/01/2021 - 15 mins - Morning - Done - Very Good (With Post Breathing Music) I Started Shamanic Breathing while listening following Tribal Drumming: https://youtu.be/BkzA_u9smXU After a few minutes while breathing I started to feel really cold. There was a lot of Tingling in my whole body. My arms & hands are totally numb, Tight, and hard. My whole body started to become so hard that it felt like it’s made of stone. As soon as I stopped doing shamanic Breathing, I held the breath inside. And suddenly it felt like I had detached from my body and had become an infinite void. The feeling of the body transformed into just a few sensations, flowing energy and currents. My Mind & Body was filled with Bliss, Joy & Peace. I could feel that all the blockages and knots in my body are opening and I am becoming more lightweight. I had earphones in my ears from the beginning and then after 5 mins of stopping the shamanic breathing following music started playing automatically in my ears. (I didn't need to come out of the trance to play the music myself using my hands): https://youtu.be/ZdElzvGlZbo I achieved the automatic Music phenomena through the following android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.muzical And it was an amazing experience to listen to music in that state of consciousness. I was feeling like I am the invisible being without any physical body floating into this infinite void and that music is the part of that void and echoing in that void. At a stage, I could feel that I am the universe, and then at a stage, I became Music. I was Music. Due to that music different kinds of vibrations were occurring in my body. When the music stopped playing there was amazing peaceful silence & void and I was in the presence of that void. I started to experience flashes of lights, hypnagogia, visualization in the blackness of my eyes. I was able to see silhouettes of some beings in human form, Faces, Eyes looking at me, and then the effects faded away and I was back to the normal state.

Just having nicely conversation brother. But truth hurts leo thats why he is offended and took it aggressively. “i” did. Enlightenment is way deeper and permanent. There is no “you” nor life, universe thats what enlightenment is. But psychedelics all the times gives you “my experience “. There is no “you”. And with psychedelics you can never “be”, because thought process goes on goes on goes on non stop. “You” name and label the “experience “ non stop. Anything you experienced is not enlightenment. Nothingness can not be experienced, can just “be”.

@Intraplanetary yes. Awakening and mental illness is the story of “I”. “Thinker” is a thought itself. Whatever you have learned since your “birth” (including the birth) is an illusion. There is no such a thing as birth, learning vs. You are already what you are (nothingness), only way to be what you are is “not knowing” as before so called birth. Surrender and let go whatever you have learned and know since “your birth”. Whatever left is what you really are. Dont get confuse with story of ego such as;

Your answer is “Nothing has ever happened”. Because, therefore there is no such a thing as something, i am nothing, and all there is “me”. No “nothingness “ can not be “experience “, can just “be”. Therefore anything “you” “experience “ is an illusion. Have a direct realization. Additionally, there is no such a thing as “I”, “life” or “death”. It’s clear see that you are stuck in duality, because “you” still think that you born and in the universe. That’s the reason why “i” and “death” is still “exist” for you.

Moksha, I hear what you're saying, and I understand ultimate reality is beyond concept and even experience. Yet, somehow "infinite consciousness" seems to be within the realm of at least peak states. I guess my disillusionment comes from the idea that even these "seemingly infinite" states are deconstructable, and that after doing so you are left with just the statement "Reality is neither ___ nor NOT ___" for any blank. This feels unsatisfying, as it applies even to God, the godhead, Nothingness, and consciousness itself. Kind of leaves me with the same big QUESTION MARK that I started this journey with. Also, how does 4th path enlightenment relate to realizations of various facets of enlightenment through contemplation / self-inquiry?

@xxxx 1- Heaven is surrendering, ego is suffering or hell. 2- No. 3- God is nothingness. There is no such a thing as another dimension, infinite, human vs. No self is love. 4- Freedom, effortlessness, bliss, compassion. 5- letting go of the ego. There is no “me” nor “you”. You are the “bliss, happiness and love ”. 6- Life is suffering. Enlightenment is end of suffering, which is end of life too. Everything is temporary, except nothingness.

January update: Returning to source Something about returning to source has hit home for me. Practices: One month of daily Do Nothing meditation One month of daily enlightenment exercises (Deepak Chopra) Daily walks, readings, regular yoga Continuation of Abraham Hicks allowing (wow this does really work) Regular art practices - drawing and printing Update: In deep meditation I sensed and felt infinity, a beautiful whirling space of nothingness and everythingness. I felt a pull to it but as soon as I began conceptualising what it was, of course it slipped out of grasp. There are days when ego has a tight grip and days when source is there. The path becomes another conceptual form. I know I'm breaking free and watching the chaos around me. I sense a time to ramp up my practices and a pull to creativity as this is my life purpose.

You are so stuck in your no self brother. This is just thoughts and you dont know shit what will happen. This no self bullshit buddhism and so forth is not the original teachings of the Buddha, this is nihilistic new age bullshit. If you really wanna go so far, you are the Absolute. But GOD is real and is the opposite from the Absolute but it is still the same thing just different versions of reality. Infinite conciousness is a thing, even if the Absolute is untouched, conciousness is isness and will always be isness, thats what god does, it is limited to ISNESS itself. Which is everything, but you still can witness it, so what you are is the Absolute. You are like an materialist which claims conciousness is an illusion. WAKE UP. Awareness IS. Always. this is from direct experience. Nothing but imagination and speculation from ur part. Reality is EVERYTHING, can you get it? Obviously you limit reality down to no self lol. Anatta in ancient pali is VIA NEGATIVA, buddha didnt teach that no self is the highest, the soul IS. NO SELF cant transcend anything. The Self is the Absolute. Pure awareness shining on its own. You think the buddha taught the cosmic oblivion lol.. The nihilistic atheistic view, that the " creation" came from non existence.. Infinite nothingness is not NON EXISTENCE. IT IS PURE AWARENESS. Not no self bullshit. no self is the psycho physical body. Form is anatta IE no self, but atman is the soul.

@Mu_ has pointed out the things I wanted to say. However, I'll add a few things here: This is a healthy discussion, and I shall be glad to hear your insights. When you said that God is no more peace than it is anguish, etc., - I am not talking about peace as an emotion here --- it is a constant state of being akin to death. You asked what happiness it --- and this, manifestation of peace, according to me, is eternal happiness; conversely, we are all immersed in a rather fragile physical body, so we have limits. Most of these aforementioned 'negative' states of being scream of the limits of our existence, and we, end up catering to what we know best about, that is going to help alleviate the pressures of life, and term it happiness, through the process of gain and loss; in the sense that we try to constantly seek something above us, in a search for hope, that will serve as an emollient to these wounds that the society inflicts upon us. I am not telling that suffering, pain, etc., is not a manifestation of God. Of course, it exists, and in the meta perspective, it is God that is responsible for this --- but we are the limited expression of God --- the true nature that I was talking about is devoid of humanness --- for there's an infinite amount of existence that isn't human. We are just specks here --- albeit, it is very real for us. Imagine a sage sitting atop a mountain, having retired from the morbid constraints of everyday life --- they have chosen to let go of these attachments, and if the suffering arises, anyway - they are going to live with it, and even die with it, in peace, happily. (Check this article out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/04/the-curious-tale-of-the-200-year-old-mummified-monk-reportedly-frozen-in-a-lotus-position/) I think, suffering arises out of our reluctance to accept the reality; that can be very difficult, too. I am not telling that I will not fall into the clutches of adversity, if they are presented to me while I am embedded in this finite form --- I am very much likely to fall prey to it. I cannot exist within the society and not expect the society to royally fuck me up. Nonetheless, it is definitely possible to experience that eternal happiness; the criteria being that you have to be completely detached from your humanness, and get into, quite literally, the God-mode. . For example: After meditating, does it have an effect on your overall well-being; at least for a short span of time, wherein, post that feeling of nothingness or peace, the emotional manifestation of it, i.e., happiness, pervades throughout, slightly nudging you into the state of complete acceptance, giving rise to a feeling of joy? Yes, this may be ephemeral. However, this can very much be eternal, too. . Also, just tell me, if it were not for other humans influencing us, would these exist, at all --- stress, murder, rape, theft, etc. Then, in terms of disasters --- would it matter to you if there's a crazy tsunami on some exoplanet, then? To what degree would this affect you? Cancer --- correct me if I am wrong here: how much of a human doing is this, owing to our lifestyles, etc.? Disability --- what if you see a dog that is blind or without any limbs? Do you think that dog is always in the mode of suffering? Hell --- who makes life hell? How do you define hell? If something threatens your egoic survival, is it hell? What I am trying to say is that these are our limits, not the complete picture. God exists in it, and very much, infinitely, out of it, as well. Yes, this understanding might be termed a utopia, but tell me, what about God isn’t a utopia? . Let me know what you think about this. Shall be happy to learn.

@Kalki Avatar This is death its relative. its infinity. The enlightnment, in part is realizing that. That is the Nothingness. There is nothing to compare it to. Death is an illusion. Self improve has many degrees, and vectors. It is also relative. Not just self deconstruction, though that is important too.

Okay, I'll try my best to break this down: God, in the ultimate sense is peace - therefore, at our core, beyond these human limits, our truth is peace alone. When we meditate, we feel no emotion - we become nothingness, a neutrality, and there's an acceptance of this infinite oneness. True happiness - that is, an eternal state of happiness is a derivative of peace. We humans, operate out of feelings, and act upon them, right? We are, at the end of the day, God in a limited form - a God that is living through us, through feelings. If we use our senses, we feel; feelings are nothing but a reaction. Say, you stay in that state of complete acceptance of nothingness, you transcend your limited form, and become one with God. You, technically, arrive at death, right? Now, through this unification and oneness, you shall realize that everything is you, and you are everything. You decide to come back, to live through God, in this limited form - a limited form that is nothing but a bundle of feelings - you use your senses, and they stimulate you; feelings are a reaction, we know that --- so, when you realize this infinite vastness, and that everything is you alone, your reaction is of pure infinite happiness and love. Here, the wall is you, the car is you, that dead animal on the street is you, the magnificent house is you, the grain of rice is you, your phone is you, that annoying aunt who talks a lot is you, haha! When you realize that everything is you, would you need anything to make you feel happy, at all? . I hope I was pellucid in my elucidation this time. . Other than that, @allislove's explanation is very good, too.

I was watching a documentary of Sri Ramana Maharshi. I was really getting into something profound, you know. I could really feel all my fucking reality melting down into I. However, at one time i got very uneasy... i don't know how to explain tbh. We all know when ego feels a bit triggered, but this one was different. It was like the pointer was maybe to much to him and the false identity wanted to get out of there. The fact is, I stopped watching and went to play videogame and things to distract the mind to be fair; however how the fuck I'm gonna run from myself. Anyway, could you give more insights about what happened? I may have an understanding, but I'm sure there is someone that has a deeper understanding of this phenomena. Any adive also to let go when literally you are dying and you are melting into nothingness? Obviusly go with the flow but i feel like all those advice are pretty much meaningless when you are actually in the situation. Looking forward your answers

Realization of nothing has ever happened. You are already what you are, which is nothingness, which is not knowing as in the beginning. therefore nothingness can not be “experienced”, can just “be”.Anything that “you” “experienced” is an illusion.

Yes i agree. Thoughts are illusion. You can say no thoughts or no mind. But, not knowing is more profound. Not knowing is what “being” is, same as before so called “birth”. When you not know, what is a thought? What is mind? What is attachment, death, or life? Nothingness can not be “experienced” (because “I” and “experiencing “ is still a thought) can just “be” ( being is just being, there is no question nor answer).