CaptainBobbyOlsen
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Posts posted by CaptainBobbyOlsen
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@SOUL Yeah, you can use many words to describe it, and luckily you are free to use the one you like the best
But i like the word “trap”, because it implies something that is not obvious when you are in the “trap” and approaching the “trap”. It is something you need to investigate and prepare for. What if you are in a “trap” right now without knowing?
Its a little like a fantasy story where the characters in order to get the treasure have to go through a big maze. The maze have lots of traps that will deceive them and keep them from progressing towards the treasure. And a few characters might have some fragments of a map of the maze whereby they can see and anticipate the potential traps along the different paths through the maze. When they know a trap is coming then they can plan for it and are more likely to not be trapped by the traps compared to the ones without anticipation of the traps. Maybe one of the traps are made to look like “the final treasure”, and many characters will fall for the “final treasure trap” and believe they have completed the maze. And only a few of the characters have studied the map cloesely enough to know that the “finale treasure trap” is also just a trap and they need to continue.
But what you are saying is completely correct. It is so hard not to fall into the trap/illusion/self-deception/hinderence/etc. when you “litteraly just found the absolute Truth, the one and only Truth”. The trap of believing you reached the end is a big one, and even more so if you use psychedelics compared to traditional tecniques i would say. Even if you believe you have reached an end you are probably better off just enjoying that feeling while expecting it not to be “the end”
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Here is a little list of traps/illusions to be aware of
Disclaimers:
- The list is a work in progress so feel free to criticise/add/subtract
- At the end of the journey one may/will probably realize that no such thing as a trap exist… How could it?
- Different traps can contradict each other, but thats the nature the game i guess
- Each trap has many nuances and can present itself in different ways
- Some of the traps are very similar but a sleight difference can mean a lot
- To some degree all traps has potential to also be a catalyst for a “possitive” outcome, but generally i would say that it will be most benefitial to be able to recognize when a trap is at work
The list:
- The trap of thinking you have reached the end before having reached the end
- The trap of thinking that any insight/realisation/etc can constitude an actual “end”
- The trap of thinking there is an entity who will become enlightened and cooler than everyone else
- The trap of thinking/conceptualizing about that which cant be thought of/conceptualized
- The trap of not actually practicing spirituality, but only consumimg spirituallity
- The trap of chasing spiritual experiences
- The trap of comparing yourself with the life of saints and sages
- The trap of thinking you are more advanced than you really are/wanting to appear more advanced than “others”
- The trap of confusing intellectual understanding for actual understanding
- The trap of thinking that you can cheat reality/take a short-cut to understand reality
- The trap of thinking that understanding of reality takes dacades and is basically impossible
- The trap of thinking that understanding of reality is not possible in this very second, but only in an imagined future
- The trap of thinking that reality is human-centered
- The trap of believing your world-view to be the truth and trying to fit reality into your current world-view
- The trap of making your “maps” too complicated/too simpel
- The trap of following one tradition blindly
- The trap of following many traditions half-heartedly
- The trap of blaming incompetence/lack of insight on genetics/karma/etc
- The trap of not compensating correctly for incompetence/lack of insight based on genetics/karma/etc
- The trap of conflating relative/absolute and content/structure
- The trap of thinking there is a “seeker” who is seeking something
- The trap of thinking that “you” can do anything about anything
- The trap of apathy/nihilism/giving up
- The trap of not examining your direct experience deeply and accurately enough
- The trap of thinking that something is missing and you need to find it
- The trap of map vs territory
- The trap of underestimating your own self-delusion and self-deception
- The trap of thinking that you cant be wrong
- The trap of believing the mind’s narratives to be other than just empty narratives
- The trap of using the wrong tecniques/using too advanced tecniques that you are not “qualified” to use yet
- The trap of thinking you have transcended the ego/false-self/jiva when you have not
- The trap of seeking happiness and truth “outside” (money, job, social status, relationships etc.)
- The trap of not laying a solid foundation
- The trap of thinking that you want “truth”, but in reality you want something different
- The trap of not investigating your assumptions
- The trap of not being openminded enough
- The trap of suppression
- The trap of not investigating your limiting beliefs
- The trap of not seeking help from “others”, and thinking you can do it all on your own in your bedroom
- The trap of not realising an important trap
If any important traps/illusions are missing then please let me know
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@VeganAwake Yes,
On 27.3.2022 at 5:07 AM, VeganAwake said:But if it's clearly recognized that this individual jumping through spiritual hoops isn't even real, then the whole concept of there being right or wrong paths & traps becomes completely non-applicable.
❤
Yes of course when you recognize that there is no such thing as an individual, then the concept of traps/illusions etc are non-appplicable. But wouldnt you say that before such a radical recognition has taken place, that there appears to be traps that apparently hinders this recognion of taking place? And in that case wouldnt it be of benefit for the apparent person to know clearly what the possible traps look like before encountering them in order to better and faster realize the “non-applicableness” of the ideas of traps/illusions afterwards?
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@VeganAwake You make it sound like there is absolutely no illusions/traps hindering your perception of reality right now. Is that true? And if you believe that to be true would you then say that there existed some illusions/traps in your direct experience 1 year ago, 2 years ago or 5 years ago, that you are no longer fooled by?
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@Michael Jackson But can you see through those illusions you alluded to right now, without any psychedelic influences?
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@Seraphim Cool article
You say there is no narrative and incessent thinking going on now, but did you have that before “no-mind”? And was there an immediate change or grandual change when the i-thought was abandoned?
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@Seraphim Yep, i can easily see the statements being a trap themselves haha
Tell me exactly what changed in your psyche when the i-thought no longer arose. What were your thinking-processes before and after?
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@Michael Jackson Great points! Are there any “traps” operating in your direct experience as you read these words? If yes, then discribe them and the actions that you take in order to no longer be trapped by them
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I would love to compile a list of the most important traps of awakening, and reflect upon how they arise in the story of this body, mind and soul
What i mean by “trap” is simply that which is/has a potential to hinder the blossoming of the understanding of reality in this life, in this very moment. Everything that makes you turn off the highway and go into a blind allyway just for you to realize that there is nothing for you there, and then you have to go back onto the highway without having gained much if anything from deviating from the highway
What i have noticed in my own life and contemplations is simply that at any given moment(not all but most moments) there are at least one trap (usually many at the same time) operating that limits “my” understanding of reality right at this very moment. Examples of a few of the traps that are operating at the very moment of writing this text are:
- The thought/feeling that there are “traps” hindering reality right now
- That there is something missing right now
- That there is a “someone” who can do anything about “traps” right now
- That i need to understand reality better than i do right now in order to find total peace
I have observed in my own life that whenever i notice and reflect upon a trap operating at any given moment, there is somewhat of a release from that trap itself. When for example i notice that i am engaging in the trap of conceptualizing and thinking too much about reality, there is an instant release from the thinking itself and a more direct and usefull/satisfying experience of reality as it presents itself moment to moment.
Direct moment to moment experience without any traps operating is what i sometimes think of as the true end of “seeking”.
So what are some of the important traps that you have noticed in your own life, and what helped you in overcoming/dealing with them?
Thank you
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Watching this election and the discussions revolving around it reminds me that not much has happened in 4 years, and not even the candidates have changed... at least not since this hilarious little clip was made
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That video of yours was a great explanation of some of the core concepts about the ego. You definitely deserve some more subscribers with that quality content hehe. I´m already looking forward to the next video on the ego
I´m in the process of writing a short guidebook about the ego, and I am looking for some quality resources to draw from. Do you know of any books/papers/people or anything that might help me gain an even greater understanding of the ego? The guidebook will contain everything worth knowing about the ego for a person on the spiritual path, so it doesn’t matter what part of the ego the resources touches upon
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@zeroISinfinity Of course there is no ego. But saying that makes little difference. To deny the experience of being identified with an ego is a trap.
The beauty of the ego is that it has without any substance managed to infiltrate everything in a person’s life, like literally everything from the self-concept to eating habits and beyond. When the ego-structure is set up properly, then its nature is spread everywhere. The craziest thing about the ego is that it has no solidity and it has no center of being, yet still through instantaneous identification it dominates every experience, every single moment the ego arises out of nothingness. How beautiful is that?
@Osaid Thank you! That sounds like a really great book I will definitely look into it.
@DLH That link is perfect, thank you
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Hi
Some weeks ago I came back to society after a 3-month Kriya-Yoga retreat. Doing the retreat I had a realization about my ego…
Since I started doing serious spirituality some years ago I quickly found myself bound by an assumption about my ego. I thought that I knew exactly the inner workings of it, and that I new exactly how and why my ego keeps itself alive. But doing this retreat I caught a glimpse of the shadowy force, which we can refer to as ego. I noticed that my understanding of my own ego is incomplete. I thought that I understood the tricks and deceptions of the ego, but this false understanding was realized as yet another deception, that the ego uses to keep itself intact. Without a lack of understanding of the ego, there will be no ego. This was at least my realization. That I need to understand the inner workings of the ego, and through that transcend it. And yes I know that this whole thing is 100% an ego-project, and that the idea of understanding ego is only an extension of my own ego, I am aware
Quickly I came to the understanding that I should try to write a short book about the ego. I ought to write the kind of book, that I would like to read myself in order to understand my own ego. So I decided that when the retreat was over I would first have to check if such a book already is in existence (I haven’t been able to find one yet), and if it isn’t then I would need to bring it in to existence. This is what I need your help with. I already own quite a fine collection of material, which either directly or indirectly touches upon the ego, but in order for me to write the book I need way more quality research material, which contains all the most essential wisdom about the ego.
The idea of the guidebook/handbook is to distill the most essential knowledge about the ego from any source, be it anything from modern psychology to eastern philosophy. The book should provide explanations as to exactly how the ego might be defined (precisely what it is), how it operates and why (all the most essential defense mechanisms, that are hindering spiritual growth), what the purpose of the ego is and so on... Anything that is useful for a serious spiritual seeker to know about the ego must be included in the book. Furthermore there will be footnotes/references to all the “works” I come upon in my research, and other further recommendations for the reader to deepen their own understanding of ego.
I therefore ask you guys whether you have any quality books, videos, research papers, articles etc. concerning the ego, either directly or indirectly? Or whether you know some professor/mystic/sage/whatever, whom would be perfect for me to talk with/interview to deepen my own understanding? Any source that has valuable understanding of the ego will be welcomed with open arms
To make it really clear, at the moment of me writing this text, I am no expert on the ego. The point is for me to use this process of research and writing the book to deepen my own understanding of my ego, and through this understanding I will hopefully take yet another step towards the great abyss on the other side of ego
Thank you for reading
Rasmus
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That is some interesting resources you found there. If anyone wants to dive a little deeper down the rabbit hole of economics, then I encourage you to look at the resources on this thread as well: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/40073-acknowledge-even-10-of-thisand-you-are-to-be-deemed-a-conspiracy-theorist/
Have a great day
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Hey @Nickyy . I agree with you very much that one will have to develop a finely tuned bullshit detector in order for a deeper understanding of society to form. The problem is that a bullshit detector is always guided by the preconceived understanding of the bullshit, so how is it really possible to know how one should go about designing such a bullshit detector?
I don’t think that your advice about letting oneself be guided by anger is a great solution in developing more understanding in society. Fear and anger should never be the way we should go about changing society! Fear and anger is basically the reason society is still in this dense situation of low-consciousness. Fear and anger usually just leads to some other kind of fear and anger. Understanding and vision is primary and should to my knowledge be the guiding principals in a bullshit detector! Instead of letting oneself be guided by a present anger, one should instead just let it be a pointer for a potentially deeper understanding.
Society is not just one single pile of bullshit, but a whole field of different piles of shit, and the piles aren’t just bullshit but also chickenshit, goatshit, dogshit, birdshit and so on. A great bullshit detector would not be angry when detecting some walrosshit, since a well-developed bullshit detector already knows the intricacies of how the pile of walrosshit relates to the rest of the piles of shit
There are many piles of shit in contemporary society, and you are definitely correct when you say that we need to develop our own bullshit detector.@Nickyy , how have you gone about developing your own ability to spot bullshit?
Have a great day
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Hi @Apparition of Jack First of all I think it is necessary to contemplate who/what is holding the “real” power in society and how/why this is so. What I mean with “real” power is that there is an important dynamic between what is a perceived power-position such as a president, and that which is the true driving force behind society. Most people who are considered as powerful leaders are rarely as influential as society and maybe even themselves make them out to be. If the president of the USA was as powerful as that position is thought to be, then Trump would surely have lead society into a total collapse of sanity by now, but what exactly has changed? Nothing, Nothing! The conventional view of society is that there is some kind of a centrally orchestrating “cockpit”, wherein all the components that are needed to control society is located. Often people assume that the “cockpit” of society rests somewhere within the white house(in USA) or at the least somewhere within the domain of politics. Less conventionally people also believe that the “cockpit” lies with some kind of nefarious cabal of Satanists or reptilians/archons/a shadowy force who/which is reaching out to all of society like a giant octopus. Common for most worldviews is that the power of society is assumed to be centrally located with either some person/persons in a position of perceived power(politicians, CEOs, Billionaires, banksters etc.) or that everything is controlled by something more shadowy, which is just outside of the stage of society. What I have found is that the “cockpit” can’t be located or found in any “one” specific place, one kind of organization/government/group of powerful people/evil aliens/interdimensional entity/other, but instead it is something much less quantifiable and much more subtle. It is an invisible level of consciousness/a certain perspective/a worldview that manifests itself in many ways within society. This however does not mean that no single person or organization can enforce their own self-serving agenda over a domain of society, and through that be a catalyst for a change/direction throughout society. The problem right now is that the consciousness of society at the moment is extremely conducive of corruption and conspiracy, since the level of understanding within society is aligned with secretive and manipulative behavior by groups/organizations/etc. Society is insanely complex and there are so many “players” who wants to control society or aspects of it, and this will inevitably breed conspiracy left and right in order for specific “players” to assert their own view onto society.
And now to the conspiracies… In an earlier post I wrote: “The conspiracies that are important are rarely single occurrences, but systemic issues that run throughout society like a virus that goes undetected. The core conspiracies are so in tune with the nature of our society that they are nearly impossible to distinguish from society itself. This is because they literally are made of the fabric of society it self, they are so ingrained into society, they are the pillars that most people try to defend”. A classic example of a core structure in society that is build upon conspiracy is the way our economy is structured. If one is really looking at what economics are at the core, a conclusion involving the fact that economics does not work in the best interest of the people will probably be made. I started a topic about economics a while ago https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/40073-acknowledge-even-10-of-thisand-you-are-to-be-deemed-a-conspiracy-theorist/… Another example of a structural conspiracy is the control of perception, especially perception of society through news and education. The way that the news-medium work at the moment it is an extremely efficient conductor of political conspiracies, as the news(does not matter which news-station it is, they are all manipulative) literally are able to facilitate manipulation of society that does not work in the interest of the general public. A great example of this is pretty much every single war that America has fought the last 100 years… Look deeply into the war in Iraq, and you will very quickly reach the conclusion that the media knowingly manipulated public perception in order for an invasion of the Middle East to take place.
I suggest that you go and explore the rabbit hole yourself, understanding that the “real” power is not what most people believe it is. Just because no single powerful figure controls society, it does not mean that conspiracies do not perpetrate society. There are so incredible many levels to society, and every different level or domain of society at the moment is vulnerable to self-serving agendas… Snatch some tinfoil and get searching
Have a great day
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Wow Leo's video about the ridiculous importance of distinguishing between content and structure is basically the entire thing that is being pointed at in this thread!
The only major theme that does not correlate with my own self-indulgent worldview is that once again it seems that in terms of society and politics, there isn’t quite the same rigorous standard divide between what is deceptive/misleading content, and what is the meta-structure that keeps that content surface-bound. How can this be?
It is interesting how one can have such “meta-understanding”, and still get lost in discussing the absolute atrociousness that is the illusion of difference between democrats and republicans. Having a view of society that tells you that there exists an important dynamic in the choice that is presented in a modern “democracy” is the most obvious example of getting lost in content. There might be a 0.0211% chance that electing “one” president over another is going to be the deciding factor in change throughout the all-important structural mechanisms that run society. It is crucial to understand that even if major changes that would alter the path of society were to happen after a somewhat “conscious” president has been elected, that the change did not come from that single PERSON!! But from an elevated meta-understanding of society amongst the general public. Society is far too complex to be centrally orchestrated by a single person. If everything from education to economics to politics and so on were to be changed for the better after an election, it would come at the cost of first exposing the low-conscious structures that are running the show at the moment. As Leo alludes to in the video, this is going to come the moment that meta-consciousness pervades in society. With meta-consciousness there comes to my knowledge an understanding of one of the most fundamental structures that run society, which is the deliberate manipulation of the people through low-conscious people and structures aka conspiracy(ies)…
Have a lovely day
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Hi @Matt8800. You definitely do raise some valid concerns, some of which I agree with, but I can’t help but notice that it seems that what you and I are talking about here are almost two separate things. When I say that society is driven into a preconceived direction through the use of both certain individuals conspiring and the major societal structures I’m not necessarily talking about theories about Clinton being an “evil” person, or the moon landings being faked, or 9/11 or any other specific “conspiracy”. What I’m really talking about is very much like “the invisible hand” that Adam Smith talked about, where an unseen element is a deciding factor, “the invisible hand” in society isn’t anything tangible but it is the collective identity, which society is attached to at the moment. Society in general lacks depth of consciousness conceptualized in spiral dynamics as tier 1 dynamics namely red/blue/orange/green. This low-conscious identity is the source of all the problems in society, there are no other problems than this one, since every major conceived problem stems from lack of consciousness in that particular societal structure. I can’t see how knowing about conspiracies and advocating boarder understanding is a waste of psychic energy. There has never been a serious root-problem in the history of the human race, which was not first fixed with a proper psychic understanding. If we want to turn society into a beautiful symbiosis of high-consciousness we will have to go beyond anything currently conventional/mainstream and understand the problem at a deeper level, as the inability to do so is surely why we have not progressed further yet.
You talk about lack of empirical evidence as if empirical evidence is the highest form of truth, and that it should be the deciding factor in determining the fate of society. There is no such thing as empirical evidence, and a short little internet-search yielded this little document; http://www.f.waseda.jp/sidoli/Omnibus_Science_Sidoli_01.pdf, which I thought summed up the problem of empirical-ness in easy to understand English. It seems so convenient to say that something is empirically true as it feels like it automatically renders every counter argument to a pointless afterthought since “its is empirically true, so you must accept it”, you don’t even have to question anything empirical since under this paradigm there is nothing to question, there is only holding on to the conventionally empirical views. It is generally thought that it is empirically true that the paranormal/occult/spiritual domains of existence do not exist, and that everything that argues the contrary is either ignorance of fact/science or pseudoscience (BTW the terms pseudoscience and conspiracy theory are basically used in the same way in order to frame something as delusional). You and I both know that mainstream science is not correct on this one...
I sometimes play with this concept where I generally see two paths of “truth-seeking”. The first path I call the outward seeker who seeks the truths of society and wants to see behind the veil of how society really functions, and then there is the inward seeker who wants to find the truths of that which is within, the truth of the self and of existence etc. Most people are not “seekers”, and so they don’t fit into either of the “paths”, but the ones who are seekers they are usually either primarily seeking “truth” in society often through conspiracies, or they are seeking spiritual truths about themselves and existence. It is rare that one is equally on both paths at the same time, but it happens. Anyone who is solely on either path knows that in order to come to grips with some deep “truths” they will have to go waaaay beyond anything that is conventional. An inward seeker will first find “real” truths once he/she has gone so far beyond the individual mind that the average human can’t understand. An outward seeker will first find “real” truths in society once he/she has gone so far beyond anything the average worldview can accept... My point here is that if you view society as being just like how any random news-broadcast outlines it then you are far from the “truth”. News-broardcasts are equally as misdirected about society as the church of Christianity is about non-duality and the self… There are so many similarities with society and spirituality, and if one is looking for the “truth” in either domain one will have to turn away from the mainstream. A problem arises here where if you are predominantly a seeker of spiritual truths you don’t often go very far beyond the conventional view on society, and therefore you will not arrive at a very deep truth concerning society(this is most people on actualized.org), the same problem goes the other way around for a seeker predominantly seeking in society… Hopefully this analogy makes a little bit of sense
I have done quite a bit of research on epistemology myself, however I would like to know if you have some great recourses, that could help broaden my understanding of this very important aspect of “knowing”?
Have a great day
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22 hours ago, Matt8800 said:@CaptainBobbyOlsen Really? How exactly has these conspiracies affected you personally? How was today different for you in particular because of a conspiracy?
None of that matters. You are wasting your time and energy on distractions. Your life is literally no different from them being either true or false.
I had one person trying to convince me that the government was controlling peoples minds through fluoride in the water....as they were drinking tap water with fluoride in it lol
Hi @Matt8800 . I love your wisdom in the field of occultism, and I have learned a lot by reading your posts, so thanks for that
However I thought that someone like you would be a little less conventional in your view of conspiracies, but that is okay since not everyone can have the same delusions as I… Hehe
I feel like you are completely missing the point here. I’m not saying that conspiracies are affecting me personally more so than other people. In fact the opposite is pretty much true, since I was born in Denmark and have been lucky enough to be raised fairly undogmatically by a couple of caring but low-conscious parents. The fact that I have a great life “generally” unaffected by conspiracies does not mean that my vision for the future of society shouldn’t be an important aspect of my purpose in this life. I bet that you and I can agree that our society is not perfect at the moment. Society is not a facilitator of great wisdom and high-consciousness, but quite the opposite. My approach to this problem of low-consciousness in society is that there are root-causes for it, and that these roots are based on low-conscious people/organizations/ideas/other extending their low-consciousness out into society. Society literally is grounded in the devilry that low-consciousness manifests, and that the only way out of this is to acknowledge the low-conscious structures and slowly purge them like one would purge deep-rooted ego-structures during spiritual work. My worldview is literally that the low-consciousness of society is grounded in low-conscious structures, and that these structures are much more far-reaching than what most people believe. Obviously this is not an easy worldview to adopt when ones worldview is based on conventional interpretations of society, and I’m not really hoping to “turn” actualized.org per se other than making people realize that society does not “run” in the way that most people think. Politics is not the deciding factor in the future of our society! The president of the United States of America is not the deciding factor in making society more conscious! He/she is basically a non-factor! Tell me how many of the doomsday prophesies that came true when trump won over an equally dreadful/low-conscious person whom too would be a non-factor had she been president. Look at all the people who thought that the president of “change” aka Obama was going to turn the path of society? What did he do exactly besides being the face of a façade that seemed friendly, funny and down to earth etc. nothing… nothing! Society is not driven by politics. Politics at the moment are like the age old analogy of a puppet theater, or you can use Plato’s cave instead if you like that one better or make one up I you like… the point being that the image you see on the stage or the phantoms you see on the cave walls are just that, images and phantoms, they are not the causes they are simply a façade, a trickery, delusion thought to be the truth.
You believe that my day-to-day life is basically unaffected by conspiracies because you haven’t included in your worldview the idea that the structures that run society is infested with devilry. Economics are infested with devilry. Politics are infested with devilry. Schools are infected with devilry. Spirituality is infected with devilry. Basically every major aspect of society that in any way, shape or form influences you on a day-to-day basis is infested with low-consciousness/devilry/ego-delusion/conspiracy. Conspiracies are not rare occurrences happening once or twice in a decade with little to no practical implications, on the contrary they are the very structures that create our current low-conscious society. Conspiracy is literally just the way that lower stages of spiral dynamics exert their own low-consciousness out into the world. Pick one important aspect of society and show me exactly how that domain is not infested with low-consciousness. Even the elements that are trying to put on a mask of high-consciousness (climate warriors, “green” politicians and so on) are rarely more that another trick that the devilry in that domain of society exerts onto the rest of society.
The conspiracies in society is not the main mission in the current chapter of my life, it its in fact the total opposite of societal revolution as my current objective in life is spiritual evolution. Once I realize more of the “Truth” and embody it even further I will probably turn my focus more to societal evolution and try to make an impact on the future shaping of society. However I still recognize that on a societal level the most important problem is not who/whom is elected into office in the USA or in Denmark for that matter, but people understanding that it is the basic cornerstones in society that needs to be transformed not the face on the TV-screen. Economics has to be transformed, politics has to be transformed, education has to be transformed and so on. You may tell yourself that I’m wasting my time when I’m believing in this nuttery, but how is that different from when you are told by people unaware of the occult that “there is not more to life than what meets the eye”? As with occultism so it is with society… there is more to society than what meets the eye
Thanks for reading! I hope that I didn’t come across as a total jackass way to full of himself, have a lovely day
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On 9.10.2019 at 11:53 AM, Dodo said:I think I cannot discuss conspiracies as it is against the forum rules. I think you can see the thread from my profile when you look near the warning.
On 9.10.2019 at 9:34 PM, Dodo said:From my perspective as a non-dualist and consciousness-ist, I believe that even round earth is a conspiracy. That the Earth exists is also a conspiracy, since currently it does not exist in my direct experience!
The purpose of this thread is to slowly remove the devilry and self-deception that is created when conspiracies are neglected, and it is utterly impossible not to discuss conspiracies when the objective is to ignite the fire that will reveal the hidden field of conspiracies, which is keeping society from evolving. Up until this point this thread hasn’t been locked, so it apparently doesn’t completely contradict the ideology of this forum
Hopefully none of us will be banned for sharing our own self-deceived worldviews here. Just don’t push any outrageous and “non-productive” conspiracies, which have no real overarching influence on society. The conspiracies that are important are rarely single occurrences, but systemic issues that run throughout society like a virus that goes undetected… The core conspiracies are so in tune with the nature of our society that they are nearly impossible to distinguish from society itself. This is because they literally are made of the fabric of society it self, they are so ingrained into society, they are the pillars that most people try to defend and they are the very thing that people here on actualized doesn't see through. As a wise bald man has said many times here on actualized “The greatest delusions are built upon kernels of truth. There needs to be just enough truth so that the mind can rationalize away all the obvious falsehood.”.
It is increasingly disappointing to see that many of the most conscious people on the planet (actualized audiences), who have all to an amazing extend managed to break through the chains of humanity’s spiritual dogma, and are know seeking genuine spiritual purification rather than blind devilry, are not able to apply the same rigor to society that they apply to their own self-discovery. There is equally as much deception in society as in the human mind, if not more. Society is an extension of the mind, and we all know here on actualized.org how little we ought to trust the mind. The mind is the greatest deceiver of them all. When all the discussions about society here on actualized.org mirror the discussions of the average citizen on the mainstream outlets we have take a step back and recognize that something has gone amiss, unnoticed and lacking in Meta.
Seriously!! The debates about Sanders vs Yang are damn near perfect reflections of why society is still in the lower stages in spiral dynamics! It simply does not matter who is elected as president! It does not matter!!! It doesn’t. A vote for a single person every fourth year is the greatest masterstroke any deceiver has ever come up with! Change cannot come with a vote, it can only come with meta-consciousness and this unfortunately is not even shining through on the most “meta-conscious” forum on the Internet. Go Meta or go home
Go conscious and not Sanders/Yang/anyone!
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If anyone wants to dive deeply into the ocean of economics he/she cannot settle for a 7-dollar snorkel and a pair of smudgy 5-dollar swim-goggles. That which is needed is something rare and much more demanding… It is called meta-goggles. Hehe sorry for the bad analogy
Honestly I think that this thread;
is a great launching pad for deeper understanding and a meta-perspective…
Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you can find the core of economics in any of society’s easily available resources. Rarely can you find anything truthful in anything conventionally acceptable. Don’t look for the truth solely in any academic circle
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@Dodo Hey Dodo.
I’m curious to know which “conspiracies” you were talking about, and the justifications you got when you received the warning. Furthermore I would like to know how your worldview has changed since then, as it appears that you have constructed a new worldview that does not incorporate the existence of conspiracies… Thanks
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I can’t see how one would be able to disagree with this statement:
On 25.9.2019 at 8:41 PM, Bas said:Reality unfolds itself in many multilayered evolving systems. To make sense of them, and how you should interact with them, every individual needs to develop their own framework of meaning and causality. We generally think there is one "true" way to divide up and define the world around us, but there are infinite different ways to assign causal connections and meaning. They are all your own projection, knowing that, you can stop care about "conspiracies" and what is the "right way" of seeing things.
This is just a cool and well-formulated description of how the construction of a worldview is 100% relative and without any substance other than whatever meaning that you ascribe to it. This however is not a sentiment to say that conspiracies are not vital in understanding how our society works, and knowing how we ought to improve it. In my own self-imposed projections a worldview will never be complete without making room for the possibility that conspiracies can be true. How can you understand a structure in society such as government without leaving open the possibility that ego-delusion/devilry/low-consciousness/conspiracies are a possibility within that domain of society? Such a worldview would never be "complete"...
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Wow that was a tremendously interesting reply Bas. Very honest and thought-provoking
I will also have to apologize for this long rant in advance… Good luck finding anything meaningful here. Hehe.
I would like to start with underlining the fact that the current core of the economic system is pure devilry, and not a conspiracy theory, but conspiracy fact. This is at least what my research has let me to believe, and at this point no one has been able to show me exactly how the economic system is not pure devilry. People constantly confuse and makes false equivalencies (not sure if I’m using that term correctly, I just think that it sounds coolJ) between conspiracies and conspiracy theories, and I’m probably also guilty of this, so I’m not judging. When I refer to myself as a conspiracy theorist/nutter it is said with a smile, it is said sarcastically as to show that I know that the majority of the readers will confuse my stance with a low-conscious feeble-minded nutcase… This is very much like the pre/post trans fallacy that many stage orange people falsely create between differently developed spiritual people/beliefs.
But can anyone dispute the fact that the creation of the Federal Reserve was a first class conspiracy? A conspiracy so blatantly obvious, that a comic book would be embarrassed. A few men literally met in secret in order for them to create a banking bill, which would effectively give these same individuals who wrote that bill the power to control the USA’s money supply… Think about the implications of this!!! This is no small thing. And this is not an outdated conspiracy, which has no merits in today’s society 100 years after its inception. The “democracy” literally has no influence on the monetary policy (one of the driving forces in society) of the USA, instead a list of private bankers and unknown individuals who have a massive conflict of interest are in control. Contemplate this! 99% of all white-collar bankers and economists/professors have no idea about how the economy works at the core. They are only ever concerned with the ripples on top of the ocean of economics. Most people think that the Fed is federal, but reality is that it is not. There is no way that anyone can frame this in a light that paints a high-conscious picture of the creation of the Federal Reserve and the current economic system. The Federal Reserve Act was literally written by the most devilish/low-conscious/ego-driven people in America at the time of its inception. The Federal Reserve was literally created in secret, it was literally a conspiracy from the moment that it came into existence, and it is still a conspiracy this day in 2019. A nations money supply should under no circumstances be controlled by anyone but individuals who work in the best interest of the whole of society. I’m not necessarily against the idea of a central bank being in charge of a nations money supply, as long as it is not biased for the betterment of a few 1000 individuals, but instead works in the interest of the people and for creating high-conscious values in society. If anyone thinks that this is an insignificant little footnote in the larger picture that we call society, then that person will have to think again and see this situation from a higher standpoint. The current economic system is the number one structure in society that needs to be optimized in order for the whole of society to move up the spiral. Low-consciousness is in the essence of economics today, and we need to turn it into a high-consciousness structure as this will create massive high-value ripples across the totality of society.
With the way that the monetary system in the world is structured it is not a facilitator for highly conscious people, but quite the opposite. You seem to agree that much of what is holding our society back is outdated unconscious remnants of blue and orange society structures. The central banking system of today must be abolished for us to change society at a large scale, likewise as you mention with the military industrial complex, petrodollar and many other current structures that limits society’s ability to transcend and include the ways of blue and orange. However many people seem to think that the current structures in society works just fine… They say; “just look at the prosperity of our modern society, our technology, and our life-standard… The structures are great, obviously!!!” This is a limited point of view, a cowardly point of view, a point of view that lacks vision, and a point of view that doesn’t acknowledge that society can be infinitely more beautiful than it is today. Yes, society has evolved greatly the last century (only truly in the west at the expense of everyone else) even after the takeover of the economic system, but that is not an indication of a lack of infiltration of low-conscious values in the current structures of society.
You are to a certain degree right when you say that it is not solely the wrongdoings of evil bankers, but the structures that limit society. I agree very much, but this doesn’t negate the fact that those structures were put there carefully by individuals in order for low-consciousness to pervade society. Low-conscious structures will inevitably create low-conscious people, and vise-versa. This problem is not only evident in the monetary system, but in all the structures of society, from education and all the way up to the president and beyond. You deem what I called the “symptoms” to be the core of the matter, but this I think is a stance that comes from not having enough vision to see, that if we want to change society we must first change the fundamental structures, and not just play the symptom-game… What I mean is that we shall focus on systemic changes in society much more than focusing on what this symptom implicates in relation to future symptoms, or what this person did or that person said. Lets instead make a radical change that will help society and its individuals to prosper, and to move into tier two structures. Gradually we should be focusing on including and transcending the blue/orange/green structures of society, instead of simply accepting them as they are and not having the courage to think big. In order for us to change the system we first have to understand the devilry that needs to be purged, and this is what I’m trying to do right now
Helping people to understand. Hopefully I’m doing an okay job of this…
Furthermore I believe that it would be beneficial for you to rethink your stands on what happens when debt is created. Do some research into what the banks do when they create debt. Research what investment bankers do for a living etc. The way that the debt is created today does in no way contribute to the welfare of the people. The truth is that it does the exact opposite! One would think that the monetary system works in favor of the people, but put the system under a loop, and you will inevitably have to conclude that the opposite is true. This is why I started this topic. The system simply does not serve the people. You seem to understand that it is totally unfair for the 0.1% to own so incredibly much wealth, but the reason this is possible is only through the larger structures in society, many of which works in the interest of the few instead of the many.
Right now it is without a doubt true that the politicians aren’t the most important people in terms of how our society is shaped. Voting for this person over this person or that person over that person does not change a thing!!!! Not yet. Everyone thought that Obama was the first truly Green president, but how much high-consciousness did he leave USA with after his term? Trump wont be any better. I don’t see how Bernie will be any better… He lost the democratic nominee to Hillary Clinton in an absolutely unfair and undemocratic way, however he still endorsed Hillary after this fact. Had he been truly conscious he would have called the system out for what it was, and this would have been a different story. Bernie might be the most conscious of the politicians in the US, but in order for a radical change to happen he will have to evolve even further. Hopefully he can. And btw look up what Bernie thinks about the Federal Reserve… He understands the systemic problem with the fed, though I’m not quite sure that he is willing to take up a fight with the current economic system. Hopefully he is if he gets elected as the next president, and then maybe for the first time ever a president would actually make a systemic change.
Lastly I can say that yes I have watched Leo’s series on conscious politics, and it was after having viewed that incredible series that I wanted to give my 2 cents here on the forum. I had just one problem with the series, and it was a major one. Leo does not see the systemic conspiracies in today's society, and this is a major problem if we want to move society into tier 2 in spiral dynamics. A big part of a blue/orange/green society is that low-consciousness runs amok, and low-consciousness breeds conspiracies… Despite this I would definitely recommend his series on conscious politics, but do not accept everything that @Leo Gura says as the word of a god
There are many truly great insights in the series, but one genius can't be counted on knowing everything…
Looking forward to read your take on my little rant here
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted
@SOUL Yeah i think you are correct. It is a good distinction to make