Nivsch

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Posts posted by Nivsch

  2. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Twentyfirst If I put aside the whole process you described which is highly delusional to my opinion and far light years from the empirical truth.

    Still, if we say theoretically your picture was right, the Palestinians have right now, anyway, a very significant potential ground area in the west bank to their countless times offered state, and if we add Gaza to that (of after the war) we get quite good area to their state, in which the Jew minority can live peacefully with them at least on the paper, realistically they will in high chance be in danger.

    Central Israel is actually identical to this area if not narrower. I will add a map to here.

    Then what is the point of the killing and raping?

    I cutted the desert which isn't not important but most Israelis are rarely there (2 to 3 weeks of a year on average) and the quality of the ground is not nearly as good.

    To be fair I add the detailed west bank map too in which we can see when the Jew minority will live (purple spots).

    Screenshot_20240130-204231_Chrome.jpg

    Screenshot_20240130-205028_Chrome.jpg

  11. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    20 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

    Whats a problem for you isn't necessary a problem for someone else. You may not like Hamas or UNRWA because you think they are terrorists but in their POV you are the terrorist and they are the right ones. Why would they surrender their position just to make you feel better? Would you surrender your position to make them feel better?

    You must be jocking.

    The Allied are also nazis in the eyes of the nazis. The immune system is the virus in the eyes of the virus.

    Choose a side based on your healthy common sense. You can't differentiate between health and illness with logic, you must be intuitive and connect with some higher common sense.

    This "woke" radical relativism can bring nothing but hell.

  12. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    10 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

    UNRWA is not responsible for teaching terrorism, Hammas is. UNRWA build schools, provide medications and vaccines. There are a lot of such facilities in my country, Jordan, non of them engage in teaching terrorism. 

    So all the posts about unrwa connections to terror are wrong?

    I see many like that.

    But heard things (honestly I remember vagualy) in the last decade and before too.

    Every time this name pops up with some direct or less direct connection to terror.

    No chance this is only some bad apples.

  14. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    18 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

    Of course Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't be allowed to continue in the same way it functions as of now.

    I don't understand the apartheid accusation. Because first of all, Israeli Arabs get full individual as well as collective rights and freedom here.

    About the Palestinians in the west bank, I agree that their area is partially sorverign and partially shared with the Israelis settlements, when IDF has to be in guard to secure those settlements and the west bank borders. Ok.

    But when is the apartheid here?

    And if one thinks there is apartheid, what is he/she expects? To not guard our borders?

  16. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    17 minutes ago, Raze said:

    2. Israel controls the West Bank and they are treated horribly there and getting massacred in the hundreds right now, why would Israel control of Gaza be any different?

    There is a kind of low intensity war there between Israel and hamas (not civilians) too since 2002. What do you think putted an end to twice weekly suicide bombing attacks came mostly from West Bank in the 00's?

    Your statements are very unfair and misleading.

  17. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    17 hours ago, Raze said:

    Now let me ask you, how would you react if

    -you were born in a small extremely population dense strip of land you could not leave

    -a blockade is imposed around you so restrictive half of your population is unemployed, a third malnourished, and water supply almost entirely poisoned, and a significant amount of children with dangerous levels of lead poisoning as a result

    -regular barrages kill and injure thousands of your people including friends and family just in the last 17 years, including when you try to protest peacefully , barrages so violent a majority of children and teens suffer PTSD before the current war

    -2,900 of your people held prisoner without charges as bargaining chips

    In this situation, I would also possibly react in violence. But that’s the situation Gazans are in, and doesn’t justify what Hamas did either.

    From top do down:

    1. See but the center of Israel is really dense too. And especially in the northern of the strip there is a big area of open air but also around the cities, not to mention a coastal plan. To say this is Ideal? No. But how Israel is responsible for that in your view?

    2. Blockade of what? Of marine and air ways. This is true. But do you dare let the terror organization who is the authority there this accesses? The water issue is more complicated and I will try to give you a link to an earlier discussion here.

    3. Money is not a problem. Gaza is very rich. The problem is how the money is distributed. Who is to blame in that?

    4. About the barrages I didnt understand I will read your links before I can answer.

  18. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    13 minutes ago, Heaven said:

    @Leo Gura Please ban @Raze

    Citing things from Al Jazeera is like showing things from Israel channel 14(The extreme right). 
    Again you are not being objective and biased. For some reason I am not surprised.

    This is appalling and turns my stomach to see this cruel distortions.

    Cherry picking can make even the sun to look dark, with focusing only on sunspots.

    I have never saw Israeli children sing things like that thats why I am sure 99.999% of Israeli children are not like that.

    I grew up here from birth and I know Israelis for 36 years, and this kind of cruelty manipulation comes from aljazeera is equivalent to hamas mantality just without the physical violence. @Heaven I am totally agree with you here.

  19. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

    @Bobby_2021

       As I stated before, both sides are doing propaganda here, just that Israel is more with it's propaganda.

    I think that if you zoom out to the average of the truth : distortion ratio of a stage RED-blue side, and compare it to the ratio of the blue-orange-green side, the results will be in the favor of the latter and in a very big gap.

    When you grow up in democracy from birth you will take it for granted, and then actually the different "creature" will seem to you more sexy, and you will tend to symphatize with him more in many cases. And then of course to give over weight to his claims.

    Not that it is bad to be interested in very different cultures, this is a beautiful thing and has its purpose, but when in such tricky conflict like we have now, this is a double edged sword.

  20. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    12 hours ago, StarStruck said:

    Of course you could be unbiased.. if you wanted it and opened your eyes. 

    No such a thing. You have a goal and an emotion behind this "opened your eyes".

    Say for a second we try to cut off our emotions and be only rational, firstly what will happen is that after 2 seconds your mind will say "no way, I am not a robot" and quit it.

    But say you could be only rational, then you see the truth most clearly right? Wrong. The logical mind is thousands times slower in its capacity hold information, and actually these are emotions that hide much more information in them in the subconscious mind.

    The only way to be "objective" about this conflict is to have another bias which isn't one of the sides but rather a more elevated one like unity, love, caring for the whole system's long term health etc.

    But even then, when one of the sides seems in your opinion to hinder or go against this goal then you will judge it. But you are entangled in this, and when you do this you participate in this.

    Then you will have to surrender and understand better the other side's motives and be more balanced for example in how you divide the responsibility to the situation between the sides.

    But then you might feel you are again too neutral and you will resist it and want to be more active again. This is an ever growing up process involving emotions and biases all the time.

  21. Posted

    9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

    To be clear, I think there is a part of Gazans that would kill Israeli civilians if they could. The issue is that we do not know how many of these Gazans are there so I do not support the idea putting them all in 1 basket and saying "all are guilty". Which is why I am against collective punishment.

    But I do agree that some citizens in Gaza do help/support Hamas so there is a link between the two. Issue is that it is quite hard to know who it is exactly. Gaza being so dense does not help with that either.

    So some are quite bloodthirsty and some are more moderate and would only kill if necessary.

    Ideally the ones that took part in killings (non Hamas Gazans) should be prosecuted for murder/rape etc.

    Hope it is more clear :) 

    Sounds a fair approach to me ok I agree with you here 👍

  23. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    18 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

    Good riddance. She ruined this topic with her compulsion for death.

    I don't think so, and I also think this is not fair to speak out against a person who cannot respond right now.

    I think @Lila9 shared many good and quite significant points from her own and from links too, and showed willingness to understand how the convesation should be in the improved form, but the emotions and the inertia got her to maybe add one link too much after the thread was already saturated from such things.

    I try to understand in a general sense what Leo felt and I think I can to some degree, but specifically about @Lila9 I really think she want to learn and change the way of approaching the conversation if need to.