You have No Control over Reality

[Bazooka Jesus]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

but then the enlightened guys start saying things like: reality is imaginary, you're dreaming it. I bet they say it because they have read or heard it, tradition.

They say it because it can be a useful pointer towards the Absolute. But of course they also know that the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon itself.

An easy way to discern whether some self-proclaimed "enlightened guy" is full of crap or not is to see if they regard the pointers they give as being literally true or not. Anyone who thinks that absolute reality can be accurately put into words (like, for example, our dear staunch solipsists on here) is definitely full of it.

 

Edited March 3 by Bazooka Jesus

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River

 

When you say that reality is happening within you, the limitation becomes absolutely obvious. In infinity there is no inside, there cannot be, it would be a limit. don't you understand? When you say a movie is not real, you mean a finite movie. An infinite film contains the total infinity in it, therefore it is the living source of reality. Have you ever opened yourself to the living source? to total intelligence? This is mystical opening, you fall to your knees, cry, say hallelujah and that, but you need to really give yourself. and you realize that your being is veiled for a reason, you would burn, you would die and you would become volatilized. It is the opening of your being, which I speak about and you do not understand and respond: you do that with psychedelics because you are not enlightened and that is why you have fluctuating states.

You do not understand the force of reality, for you it is a hologram, you see in 2 dimensions. It's not like that, I guarantee it. Leo comes closer when he says that reality is love. reality is infinite life, infinite power, total joy. open yourself to it and see. But to do it first you have to drop the self into the void, completely, that self that is still strong and hard, the veil, the door that closes.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

They say it because it can be a useful pointer towards the Absolute. But of course they also know that the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon itself.

Ab easy way to discern wether some self-proclaimed "enlightened guy" is full of crap or not is to see if they regard the pointers they give as literally true or not. Anyone who thinks that absolute reality can be accurately put into words (like for example our staunch solipsists on here) is definitely full of it.

 

It's easy to perceive when their message is concrete, finite, they are totally sure of their vision of the reality , that is concrete, they proclaim that they are god and they can access to the god mode but then they can do something so simple as create an universe or even fly, when they haven't original points but they are attached to the tradition, when they are show need to have arrived, etc etc. In short, 99,99999% of the cases, or better 100% 

[Yimpa]

9 hours ago, Davino said:

A knife can prepare you dinner or cut your finger

The invention of the knife is great 

However, don't fault the knife for your failure to apply your own intelligence while using it.

Fittingly, intelligence rises by not controlling what should happen next. Reality simply unfolds way better this way compared to when you try to control everything. Cus did ya really think you can outsmart Infinite Intelligence? 

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Look at a movie on TV. Is it real? Is this really going on? Did it really happen like that? Rather not.

4 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

 

A movie is real since that the electrons that flow across the screen are real and infinite, and the actors who made it were real and infinite, history is irrelevant.

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Did it actually happen, was there a real story being filmed? Nope.

The history doesn't matter at all, it's just meaning, reality is not meaning, is life, or better, reality. 

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Disclaimer: If one hasn't fully transcended the illusion, it can feel damn real if one doesn't respect that actions have consequences, or Karma. If one hits ones toe with a hammer, it WILL hurt, and will not feel like an illusion

Because it isn't an illusion, everything is synchronized and connected. Illusion is just the meaning that we give due our social learning 

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And if one has transcended the illusion, one normally does something like mainly acting out of compassion. Because Reality doesn't let anyone "off the hook" or outside the illusion that doesn't have lots of compassion. Yes, Reality is smart enough to do just that. Because who controls which being gets Liberation?

Where did you learn that history? Interesting belief, but there is no controller, it would be a limitation, reality itself is a whole , there is not a puppeteer. Reality is not created, since reality is the existence. 

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And how doesn't reality let a being "off the hook"? By making it suffer

A cause effect deduction about the absolute. Learned, and very limited. A stone doesn't suffer and exist. Suffering is just a life evolutionary tool. 

 

[Water by the River]

Just a view points that you wrote, with quotes if yours truly written before these points of yours. Guess we snuggle together conceptually with our views closer than you thought  

 

(1):

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

In infinity there is no inside, there cannot be, it would be a limit. don't you understand?

 

9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Your True being, believing its projections occuring IN its infinite being (which has NO inside and NO outside since its.... infinite! ) to be real.

Ummm.... yes 

 

(2):

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You do not understand the force of reality, for you it is a hologram, you see in 2 dimensions.

 

23 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Our universe alone can sustain mathematics with which infinite dimensions can be calculated/simulated/described (4 dimensional worlds, 5, n, n+1, non-euclidian, hyperbolic, and what not). Anything that can be done in this universe has to be a potential in Infinite True Being (and much more).

We got a lift-off Houston.

 

(3)

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

you would die and you would become volatilized.

 

On 1.3.2024 at 2:15 PM, Water by the River said:

Looks for me the separate-self wants to be the Absolute, wants to be God. And instead of paying the price of self-transcendence and death of the separate individuum/ego to truly become truly Infinite Being, we instead blow up the separate individuum/self to God-sized-proportions.

Yes so, pretty much el muerte is required. Fully agree.

 

After we obviously alreay align so much, which didn't really hinder you to criticize positions that I already wrote myself - no problem btw., itsSaulGoodman, I guess we can rejoice .

 

And this here is a quite smart post in my opinion:

20 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

I would say its both full and empty. Both real and imaginary. Like everything.

As Roger Thisdell said: all of those dualities are category errors. Reality is neither this nor that, its a special third thing that cannot be named. 

And that is it. At the end of the day, it is all pointers, all dualities, all catergory errors. IT is neither illusion nor real, not this not that, and so on... As soon as one uses a single word to describe Reality, one is already in duality. One can only say what it is not, via negative ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology .

The answer on all of these questions and points is an awakened state of being, not the latest pointer to the Absolute of the day, which are (a) all pointers and not accurate descriptions of Ultimate Reality, and (b) from an absolute perspective, all wrong (words/duality/concepts).

And while we are at it, if it helps: I do understand nothing. Or Nothing (capital N?). But that luckily quite well... Wonderful piece of real estate to be at...

Hope my friend that you understand my humour and my direct answers. It takes two to tango. 

 

Selling vortices on the river  that the River produced already in the past.

 

 

 

Edited March 3 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

"And if one has transcended the illusion, one normally does something like mainly acting out of compassion. Because Reality doesn't let anyone "off the hook" or outside the illusion that doesn't have lots of compassion. Yes, Reality is smart enough to do just that. Because who controls which being gets Liberation?"

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Where did you learn that history? Interesting belief, but there is no controller, it would be a limitation, reality itself is a whole , there is not a puppeteer. Reality is not created, since reality is the existence. 

In my personal experience of what kills Awakened nondual states, and in the description of that of countless others. These states need compassion & love. Without that, it just closes down. And nearly endless NDE and OBE reports.

And sorry if I will not answer fast & everything in the next days, got a lot of stuff do it. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Hope my friend that you understand my humour and my direct answers. It takes two to tango. 

Of course, I don't offend at all, I just get bit, let's say, desperate, reading categorical statements about the infinite defining it as finite. You can tell me whatever you want, that I'm deceived, overturn my statements, etc., but perhaps also admit a minimum percentage of correctness

[Water by the River]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

reading categorical statements about the infinite defining it as finite.

 

12 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

And this here is a quite smart post in my opinion:

20 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

I would say its both full and empty. Both real and imaginary. Like everything.

As Roger Thisdell said: all of those dualities are category errors. Reality is neither this nor that, its a special third thing that cannot be named. 

And that is it. At the end of the day, it is all pointers, all dualities, all catergory errors. IT is neither illusion nor real, not this not that, and so on... As soon as one uses a single word to describe Reality, one is already in duality. One can only say what it is not, via negative ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology .

The answer on all of these questions and points is an awakened state of being, not the latest pointer to the Absolute of the day, which are (a) all pointers and not accurate descriptions of Ultimate Reality, and (b) from an absolute perspective, all wrong (words/duality/concepts).

Don't worry. Yours truly is not a fan of making the Infinite/Absolute finite...

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

@Breakingthewall

Look my man... I think we can agree that absolute reality cannot be put into words. Right?

This means that one pointer towards the Absolute doesn't have any more or less validity than any other pointer. So the only thing that distinguishes a "good" pointer from a "bad" one is its usefulness... and how useful a pointer is depends entirely on who it is directed at.

Slogans like "reality is illusion", "life is a dream" or "you are God" can definitely be useful pointers for newbies who otherwise wouldn't even know where to start their awakening journey; but they stop being useful the second that the relative validity of the pointer in question has been verified and now is being mistaken for an expression of absolute truth. As soon as that happens, someone needs to step in and say "sorry pal, but that's not it".

In other words: The best pointer is always a statement which directly contradicts the belief(s) that the recipient of the pointer is stubbornly attached to. If you believe that you are your body, then the best pointer for you is "you are not your body". If you believe that reality is made of solid matter that exists somewhere "out there", then the best pointer for you is "reality is imagination". And if you believe that you are God, then the best pointer for you will be something along the lines of "you are but an infinitesimally small part of God", "you don't exist", "you is nothing but a relative concept", you are limited (and God is not)" or whatever other combination of words you might come up with that will do the trick.

So you see, bickering about what description of the Absolute is "objectively" the most correct one is sheer silliness. You can twist and turn it as much as you want: All statements about the absolute aspect of reality are equally false. Which is exactly why I find all of these endlessly circular discussions about the supposed "true nature" of reality so incredibly hilarious and can never quite hide my (admittedly smug) amusement about this whole absurd spiritual clown show on here... cross my heart, how anyone can read the neverending torrent of equally grandiose and grotesque bickering that this forum is constantly being flooded with with a straight face is completely beyond me. Mea culpa, I guess!

[Javfly33]

You have all the control possible because you are reality 👑

[Arthogaan]

24 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Breakingthewall

Look my man... I think we can agree that absolute reality cannot be put into words. Right?

This means that one pointer towards the Absolute doesn't have any more or less validity than any other pointer. So the only thing that distinguishes a "good" pointer from a "bad" one is its usefulness... and how useful a pointer is depends entirely on who it is directed at.

Slogans like "reality is illusion", "life is a dream" or "you are God" can definitely be useful pointers for newbies who otherwise wouldn't even know where to start their awakening journey; but they stop being useful the second that the relative validity of the pointer in question has been verified and now is being mistaken for an expression of absolute truth. As soon as that happens, someone needs to step in and say "sorry pal, but that's not it".

In other words: The best pointer is always a statement which directly contradicts the belief(s) that the recipient of the pointer is stubbornly attached to. If you believe that you are your body, then the best pointer for you is "you are not your body". If you believe that reality is made of solid matter that exists somewhere "out there", then the best pointer for you is "reality is imagination". And if you believe that you are God, then the best pointer for you will be something along the lines of "you are but an infinitesimally small part of God", "you don't exist", "you is nothing but a relative concept", you are limited (and God is not)" or whatever other combination of words you might come up with that will do the trick.

So you see, bickering about what description of the Absolute is "objectively" the most correct one is sheer silliness. You can twist and turn it as much as you want: All statements about the absolute aspect of reality are equally false. Which is exactly why I find all of these endlessly circular discussions about the supposed "true nature" of reality so incredibly hilarious and can never quite hide my (admittedly smug) amusement about this whole absurd spiritual clown show on here... cross my heart, how anyone can read the neverending torrent of equally grandiose and grotesque bickering that this forum is constantly being flooded with with a straight face is completely beyond me. Mea culpa, I guess!

That was great! 

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

So you see, bickering about what description of the Absolute is "objectively" the most correct one is sheer silliness

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Sure, but the problem is when the description is absolutely wrong, like: you are dreaming reality, deceiving yourself, and suffering is created to make an immersive experience. It's like you're saying: reality is Shiva's hand grabbing Vishnu's penis while they dance a tango. So someone answers and says: wtf? someone who has had some real perception of what infinity is

[Bazooka Jesus]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure, but the problem is when the description is absolutely wrong,

Where there is no "absolutely right", there is no "absolutely wrong". Duh.

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's like you're saying: reality is Shiva's hand grabbing Vishnu's penis while they dance a tango.

If that sentence triggers an awakening, then it's the perfect pointer.

 

Edited March 3 by Bazooka Jesus

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Which is exactly why I find all of these endlessly circular discussions about the supposed "true nature" of reality so incredibly hilarious and can never quite hide my (admittedly smug) amusement about this whole absurd spiritual clown show on here... cross my heart, how anyone can read the neverending torrent of equally grandiose and grotesque bickering that this forum is constantly being flooded with with a straight face is completely beyond me. Mea culpa, I guess!

You are wrong, reality can be understood. Always with the limitation of that reality is unlimited, so the only understanding is that reality is unlimited, but you can understand is some extent what unlimited means, and over all, you can open yourself to it. That is the thing, totally real

 

22 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

If that sentence triggers an awakening, then it's the perfect pointer.

 

22 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Where there is no "absolutely right", there is no "absolutely wrong". Duh.

Infinity is absolutely right, so finite is absolutely wrong. You can think I'm a clown if that make you happy, but maybe I'm in the real thing . Just a possibility 

 

Edited March 3 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And sorry if I will not answer fast & everything in the next days, got a lot of stuff do it.

Don't worries, always a pleasure to talk with you, and sorry for being, let's see...a mirror 😅. All of us need one. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are wrong, reality can be understood.

Sure, but it cannot (correctly) be expressed.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Infinity is absolutely right, so finite is absolutely wrong.

Infinity is just a word. That which it points to isn't.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can think I'm a clown if that make you happy,

We're all clowns... hence my profile pic. And yes, being a clown makes me happy. It's the only honest profession on this planet.

But the biggest and funniest clowns are always those who think they aren't.

 

Edited March 3 by Bazooka Jesus

[Ishanga]

Interesting, just got back from a Trip, Yes things went not according to plan, mostly about the airlines and such, others things went to plan, but these things are outer situations, not inner situations.

All you can really know about the universe is outer and inner in relation to Your Body and Mind that is. You know the boundary of Your Body and some of the limitations/boundaries of Your Mind, unconscious mind for most is uncharted territory..

When it comes to Inner World, Inner Boundary You can Control this 100%, You can control Your Mind, Thoughts, Thinking Patterns, Identity you choose, Your Conceptual understanding, where You place Yourself Past, Present, Future, etc.. Your Inner Experience, Bliss, Joy, Excitement, Intensity, Exuberance, etc vs. Depression, Sadness, Anxiety, Frustration, Numbness, etc. is under Your control..

Outer Situations, at best You can control 50%, not even wealthy ppl with all their power can control everything, so this is a given, and is why Acceptance, realizing the way things are now is inevitable is primary, and  Your ability to Respond is primary, both on equal grounds, this stop stress response from happening, and Awakening to happen faster and more healthy!

 

 

[Davino]

8 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Fittingly, intelligence rises by not controlling what should happen next. Reality simply unfolds way better this way compared to when you try to control everything. Cus did ya really think you can outsmart Infinite Intelligence? 

In a way yes

In another your own controlling and intelligence is part of the symphony of infinite intelligence and cannot be distinguished from it

As everything if we get too deep we encounter paradoxes as it must be so. Don't resist resistance, let go of let go, and so on

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

But the biggest and funniest clowns are always those who think they aren't.

Well, they are funny only if you are a sarcastic bastard 😅

I would say that more effective than using mockery, which always generates an aggressive response, it is better, as   @Water by the River would say, to try to be an empty mirror in which they reflect themselves 

Edited March 3 by Breakingthewall