Is Consciousness a Miracle?

[Socrates]

This is a good watch, the orange guy is clinging to his materialism with audacity, you see the rationalists think USING a thing means UNDERSTANDING a thing. That's why I never looked up to any "educated" person since they just filled junk in their mind and ended up projecting their models on reality instead of EXPERIENCING what IS. And that's a common trap many people here fall into as well, your models aren't reality and will never be, no matter how well-made they are.

 

[Salvijus]

Nice. Eager to watch this later

Edited November 10, 2023 by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

Reality is a fucking mystery.

Adhering to materialism is ironically believing in magic: that somehow matter that is arranged a certain way sources and causes consciousness to exist.

That's believing in magic.

Of course the tacit assumption of any -ism is that we know what we're talking about when referring to consciousness. We conclude and make assumptions about it without direct experience into its nature.

Edited November 10, 2023 by UnbornTao

[koops]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Reality is a fucking mystery.

The materialist scientist is the one believing in magic: that somehow an arrangement of matter produces consciousness. That's believing in magic.

Yes, scientists also believe in miracles

[UnbornTao]

@Socrates 

@koops 

thanks for sharing, by the way.

Edited November 10, 2023 by UnbornTao

[LastThursday]

34 minutes ago, Socrates said:

your models aren't reality

Don't believe for a minute you don't rely on models though. Here's a thread about maps (aka models), the conclusion is drifting towards something you wouldn't like:

In particular read this response:

 

[UnbornTao]

"Anything cumulative diminishes your perception."

That's a good one.

[Socrates]

49 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Reality is a fucking mystery.

Adhering to materialism is ironically believing in magic: that somehow matter that is arranged a certain way sources and causes consciousness to exist.

That's believing in magic.

Well said! What you said is self-evident AFTER you escape the echo chamber of materialism but you have to escape to even notice it! 

It is a sneaky catch-22 since every echo chamber appears "complete" from within, but blatantly biased and incomplete from outside.

[ZzzleepingBear]

To say that a educated mind is full of junk, is at best a uneducated bias. Let's be honest, there is delicate middleway to approach most subjects without see everything as black or white. 

[Salvijus]

Amazing. I'm more entertained just by watching how he plays around the questions and people and audience etc. Then the actual things he says lol. 

Da best. 

Sadhguruurueueueueueueueueururuuu

I'll see myself out. 

[Osaid]

The materialist guy isn't necessarily wrong, all he really did was state his position, which was on point scientifically speaking. However, he does not address what Sadghuru is saying at all. It really felt like there was zero exchange between the two. He initially says that clairvoyance does not exist, Sadghuru corrects him to say that they are not necessarily talking about clairvoyance or such things, but then he continues to harp on the point of magical abilities, as if Sadghuru is claiming he can start flying through meditation or something. Once you start talking about consciousness and its potential perceptual capabilities which go beyond what is normally perceived, this guy just lumps it in with ESP and magical abilities.

Overall, it seems the materialist came in with a very fixed mindset about meditation, and didn't really consider a more nuanced position at all. He probably believes that most of what Sadghuru is saying is just quackery and magical abilities unsupported by science, and so he felt a need to really stress that such things should not be relied on. He basically sees Sadghuru as a psychic peddling people off the street.

All things considered, this is probably about as fruitful such a conversation would get anyways.

[UnbornTao]

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Amazing. I'm more entertained just by watching how he plays around the questions and people and audience etc. Then the actual things he says lol. 

Da best. 

Sadhguruurueueueueueueueueururuuu

I'll see myself out. 

Can you elaborate? I can't say whether you're being sarcastic or not.

[Yimpa]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Can you elaborate? I can't say whether you're being sarcastic or not.

Probably a mixture of both. Text can make it more difficult to understand the nuances of communication. It’s truly a miracle when one can read text clearly, beyond the conventional senses.

[Hojo]

sadhguru trying very hard to get people to wake up, hes even debating scientist. It is a good showing by sadhguru he says some special things here

Edited November 11, 2023 by Hojo

[An young being]

15 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

"Anything cumulative diminishes your perception."

That's a good one.

I think he used the word accumulated in the beginning. Thanks to you both, I have learnt what's the difference between cumulative and accumulated.

[Osaid]

Sadghuru casually obliterating solipsism brain rot:

"there is no 'my consciousness', there is your being and my being" 

Closest we'll get to his take, I guess.

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Can you elaborate? I can't say whether you're being sarcastic or not.

I'm indeed fascinated with how sadhguru dances with the situation and how his brain works. As an example. Even the very first sentence that came out of sadhguru's mouth is pure genius to me:

"rather saying "a response" same thing can be looked at many different directions" 12:40min

The narrator was pruning sadhguru into a confrontational response right after the scientists has stated his opinion. And sadhguru's choice of words just completelyn  defused that confrontational energy and made the atmosphere less of a battle but more of a exploration. Then he kinda just ignores the scienctist and shamelessly continues to pour his inner engineering message to people 🤣

I mean the way his mind and brain work is really fascinating to me. The way he delivers his message is wrapped so cleverly each time. Being aware of so many subtle things. Like how much you push. How not to step on anyone's toes when a scientists was so full of buttons ready to explode at any moment lol. It is the unspoken intelligence in everything that sadhguru does that is more fascinating to me then the things he actually says. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Salvijus

[An young being]

17 hours ago, Socrates said:

This is a good watch, the orange guy is clinging to his materialism with audacity, 

I think he is more like a pink guy though. And some green too.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

I'm indeed fascinated with how sadhguru dances with the situation and how his brain works. As an example. Even the very first sentence that came out of sadhguru's mouth is pure genius to me:

"rather saying "a response" same thing can be looked at many different directions" 12:40min

The narrator was pruning sadhguru into a confrontational response right after the scientists has stated his opinion. And sadhguru's choice of words just completelyn  defused that confrontational energy and made the atmosphere less of a battle but more of a exploration. Then he kinda just ignores the scienctist and shamelessly continues to pour his inner engineering message to people 🤣

I mean the way his mind and brain work is really fascinating to me. The way he delivers his message is wrapped so cleverly each time. Being aware of so many subtle things. Like how much you push. How not to step on anyone's toes when a scientists was so full of buttons ready to explode at any moment lol. It is the unspoken intelligence in everything that sadhguru does that is more fascinating to me then the things he actually says. 

If we wanna talk about Sadghuru specifically, what personally stood out to me was his emotional intelligence, which is kind of what you're alluding to as well I guess.

After the scientist said his monologue at the beginning, the very first thing that Sadghuru did was not a response to defend his position, but rather, he directed himself to the audience and said "namaskaram" and hoped they were doing well. Subtle things like that stood out to me from him, and then of course what you highlighted would also be part of that emotional intelligence to a degree.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Osaid

[Bazooka Jesus]

23 hours ago, Socrates said:

And that's a common trap many people here fall into as well, your models aren't reality and will never be, no matter how well-made they are.

Exactly.

No story about reality is reality itself, no matter the content. Hence the statements "reality is matter" and "reality is mind" are equally nonsensical.