Love is not what you think it is.

[Razard86]

13 hours ago, Osaid said:

That is just visual perception. You're not seeing it as a hand or finger. Your visual perception has no feature where it makes one thing finite or a part of something. Those are mental labels. Visual perception is always infinite.

Visual perception isn't actually infinite, infinite is unlimited expression. Are you seeing and experiencing right now...every possibility that exists right now? NO!!! We only say its infinite because you can unlock the finite perceptual limits to experience infinity. But the normal visual perception...is experienced as finite. Also mental labels...ARE VISUAL PERCEPTION. A blind person can SEE there mental labels since they lack visual perception that becomes their visual their finite human imagination. But if you study how language is learned it is learned primarily through visualization. You only know what a chair is as a visual person based on how it looks.

For a blind person it would be based on how it feels. If I told you what is the word "silla" if you don't know Spanish you wouldn't know. But if I showed you a picture of a chair and said its this in spanish your mind would make a connection VISUALLY that the word "silla"= chair. 

Why am I doing this? To show you that all disagreements...is just how you are choosing to construct your world view. You have to deny that mental labels are =to images you form in your mind. To a blind person...the letter A will never be seen. But don't doubt for a minute their mind isn't constructing some image of what the sound "A" means. For them "A" would be a specific feeling of BRAILE. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Razard86

[Osaid]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Are you seeing and experiencing right now...every possibility that exists right now? NO!!!

You are just referring to the future here. This is a fancy way of saying "time is real and the future exists."

And also, yes. I am experiencing every possibility that exists right now, which is just a thought that extrapolates from myself. Possibilities are referring to potential future events, always. Any perception of possibility is perceived from this moment. The only actualized possibility you will ever encounter is just your current present experience. You can try to escape your present experience if you want, but I suspect you won't really get anywhere.

"Many possibilities that aren't happening right now" is not what being infinite means, it's a materialistic rendition of it.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Osaid

[ivankiss]

The mind complicates things to avoid facing the truth. It's too simple.

Thought, feeling, perception. Nothing else is direct experience. Literally.

But then...

Direct experience as a whole is deceiving. Illusory. Non-existent, even.

Only consciousness. Only Love. That's all there is. Absolutely.

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

You are just referring to the future here. This is a fancy way of saying "time is real and the future exists."

And also, yes. I am experiencing every possibility that exists right now, which is just a thought that extrapolates from myself. Possibilities are referring to potential future events, always. Any perception of possibility is perceived from this moment. The only actualized possibility you will ever encounter is just your current present experience. You can try to escape your present experience if you want, but I suspect you won't really get anywhere.

"Many possibilities that aren't happening right now" is not what being infinite means, it's a materialistic rendition of it.

That's not a materialistic rendition, infinite points to EVERYTHING!!! Right now you are in a finite expression of everything. So you are experiencing infinity but from a finite perspective. I'm saying...you are NOT experiencing ABSOLUTE INFINITY in its totality right now because you are in a limited state of consciousness right now.

Also there is NO FUTURE. Every possibility that could ever be....has already happened!!! It's done, it is finished!!! You are just experiencing what has already happened. How is it possible? Because nothing has ever happened.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

infinite points to EVERYTHING!!!

Right.

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Right now you are in a finite expression of everything. So you are experiencing infinity but from a finite perspective. I'm saying...you are NOT experiencing ABSOLUTE INFINITY in its totality right now because you are in a limited state of consciousness right now.

How do you know that? How do you know that you aren't everything right now? Where are you getting that information from? How are you perceiving a part of experience which is lacking in "everything"?

I want to clarify I'm not pointing to solipsism or something, it shouldn't be thought of that way. I'm just saying that "possibility" is not some event in the future, it is something you are mentally generating right now and extrapolating from yourself.

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Also there is NO FUTURE

You say this, but then you immediately refer to past and future here:

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Every possibility that could ever be....has already happened!!! It's done, it is finished!!! You are just experiencing what has already happened.

This is not actually invalidating or nullifying the future, it is just an intellectual supposition which is being projected onto your experience. You are extrapolating from the present moment that things already happened. You are just experiencing a present moment which is perceiving that. There is no "happened" in experience, that is memory. There is memory in experience, which you perceive through the present.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Osaid

[Inliytened1]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:01 AM, Bazooka Jesus said:

Sorry for being a smart ass as usual (I guess it's part of my Karma, lol)... but by definition, the finger is NOT the hand. 'Finger' is a relative concept; the whole point of calling it a finger is to make an (arbitrary) distinction between finger and hand.

Its fine its just you.  The point is to see that there is a shift in consciousness if you can see the finger as the whole hand.  It is that shift in consciousness that occurs in enlightenment.   Really you are only identifying as a self, which, as you said, is a relative concept.  But what is actually there is Consciousness itself. 

When you look at one facet of Truth you are seeing it as that facet.  But if you shift your consciousness (that's not Absolutely correct because it's not "yours") you can see that the facet is the whole thing.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

20 hours ago, Osaid said:

Right.

How do you know that? How do you know that you aren't everything right now? Where are you getting that information from? How are you perceiving a part of experience which is lacking in "everything"?

I want to clarify I'm not pointing to solipsism or something, it shouldn't be thought of that way. I'm just saying that "possibility" is not some event in the future, it is something you are mentally generating right now and extrapolating from yourself.

You say this, but then you immediately refer to past and future here:

This is not actually invalidating or nullifying the future, it is just an intellectual supposition which is being projected onto your experience. You are extrapolating from the present moment that things already happened. You are just experiencing a present moment which is perceiving that. There is no "happened" in experience, that is memory. There is memory in experience, which you perceive through the present.

Your arguments are just becoming fluff arguments at this point. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

You literally said how do I know you aren't in an infinite state of consciousness? Because you wouldn't be responding to me that's how I know. 

Sigh...some of you on this forum....

[Osaid]

22 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Because you wouldn't be responding to me that's how I know. 

That just begs the question. I asked you why this indicates to you that I am not infinitely conscious. Where are you coming up these standards? As if infinite consciousness is exempt from being able to type something. Or that me being able to type something is antithetical to infinite consciousness. These are big fat assumptions which should be investigated.

All I'm trying to do is point to the fact that visual perception is not finite, that can't be the case, but you say it is.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Osaid

[UnbornTao]

Is love being me? Is love being? Is being love? Is love being?

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You literally said how do I know you aren't in an infinite state of consciousness? Because you wouldn't be responding to me that's how I know. 

"One" can act and communicate totally normal in these awakened nondual states (of infinite consciousness) after a certain time of getting used to them. Peak to plateau to permanent. Reality acts and communicates with itself then.

Communicating with "somebody" not aware of the underlying nondual unity of Absolute Reality is then just communicating with an appearing perspective/being (although that is then most often confused and ignorant, believing to be separate) within ones nondual boundless visual field/Being.

Loosing ones awakened nondual infinite state of consciousness while communicating with other "beings" gets less and less with ongoing practice.

But it is then totally clear and intuitively understood (in these awakened states) that empty infinite Awareness is looking through the eyes/perspective of all beings. And it is the same as the empty impersonal Awareness of any being, or "of" Absolute Reality.

Although in most other beings/perspectives this empty impersonal Awareness is mightily confused and covered with clouds of ignorance/separate-self-arisings/I-thoughts and I-feelings preventing this realization in that being/perspective... The most funny and endearing ones by the way are those that think they have realized Ultimate Reality/Empty Impersonal Awareness while doing their conceptual solipsistic gig.

Selling Water by the River

Edited October 17, 2023 by Water by the River

[gettoefl]

in unending space, I've countless eyes to realize

infinite vision, a universe unified, no side no divide

from top to toe, the unfolding of life's unstoppable ride

on the scene to savor an extravaganza far and wide

[Razard86]

9 hours ago, Osaid said:

That just begs the question. I asked you why this indicates to you that I am not infinitely conscious. Where are you coming up these standards? As if infinite consciousness is exempt from being able to type something. Or that me being able to type something is antithetical to infinite consciousness. These are big fat assumptions which should be investigated.

All I'm trying to do is point to the fact that visual perception is not finite, that can't be the case, but you say it is.

If you were infinitely conscious...you would be formless and the universe would end. My gosh your level of self-deception. 

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

If you were infinitely conscious...you would be formless and the universe would end.

You said that infinite consciousness is equal to everything, but apparently the human state is not accounted for? Is it not formless enough for you? Are humans just forsaken by God? Does infinite consciousness = an inability to type? 

You also say that the future does not exist, but infinite consciousness is located in some future event of the "universe ending." 

So, to reiterate your position, the universe is capable of not being everything, and then becoming everything again at a future date, in which the universe ends and you become "formless."

Assuming that I got everything correct, I will say again that none of that can be the case, because of the cognitive dissonances I have highlighted. Your idea of infinite consciousness is not very infinite at all. It is relative to time, the future, temporal states, and also a "lack of everything." It's just wrapped up in dualities which come and go.

[vibv]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

You said that infinite consciousness is equal to everything, but apparently the human state is not accounted for? Is it not formless enough for you? Are humans just forsaken by God? Does infinite consciousness = an inability to type? 

You also say that the future does not exist, but infinite consciousness is located in some future event of the "universe ending." 

So, to reiterate your position, the universe is capable of not being everything, and then becoming everything again at a future date, in which the universe ends and you become "formless."

Assuming that I got everything correct, I will say again that none of that can be the case, because of the cognitive dissonances I have highlighted. Your idea of infinite consciousness is not very infinite at all. It is relative to time, the future, temporal states, and also a "lack of everything." It's just wrapped up in dualities which come and go.

The Infinite is What Is. Always.

But it is currently experiencing the undertaking of the adventure of duality. That adventure can and will end. Until then we're all bound here, even if you have some radical awakening but return. As soon as we're not longer bound here (a possibility that exists at all times), this universe how we know it will no longer appear.

But it is not the objective to no longer be bound here, because it is a choice we're doing consciously right now. What's our objective then, you may ask? To Awaken. After that it will no longer be necessary to "escape".

FULL Awakening will result in annihilation of this Universe.

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

You said that infinite consciousness is equal to everything, but apparently the human state is not accounted for? Is it not formless enough for you? Are humans just forsaken by God? Does infinite consciousness = an inability to type? 

You also say that the future does not exist, but infinite consciousness is located in some future event of the "universe ending." 

So, to reiterate your position, the universe is capable of not being everything, and then becoming everything again at a future date, in which the universe ends and you become "formless."

Assuming that I got everything correct, I will say again that none of that can be the case, because of the cognitive dissonances I have highlighted. Your idea of infinite consciousness is not very infinite at all. It is relative to time, the future, temporal states, and also a "lack of everything." It's just wrapped up in dualities which come and go.

Time has nothing to do with it.  It is a state of consciousness. 

[Yimpa]

Love is anything you dream it to be. And you are dreaming that you are dreaming it to be anything you dream it to be.

tl:dr: Love

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Time has nothing to do with it.  It is a state of consciousness. 

Don't let him pull you in....

[StarStruck]

Most people experience love mixed with ego. Love without ego is a whole different ball game. 

[Breakingthewall]

The word love is very bad for defining reality because love means something concrete with an opposite, hate. So calling reality love is limited and gives rise to error. The word unlimited existence or reality, or even life, or glory, is much better.

If now someone says: it's not human love, it's divine love, well, that doesn't mean anything, why use a word that already has a concrete and defined meaning to express a non-concrete and undefined idea?

Edited October 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

On 17/10/2023 at 9:25 AM, Razard86 said:

you were infinitely conscious...you would be formless and the universe would end.

I would say that it is true. the universe is the infinite partition of consciousness. Your consciousness is infinite but at the same time limited. In fact what we are now is a limiter, like blinders on a donkey that only allows it to see what it has to see. we can open them, but not remove them.

Without that limitation, nothing defined would exist. It seems that reality is organized in increasingly complex cyclical patterns. each of them is the total reality in essence, but partial on its surface. You cannot get out of your limitation, if that were the case, the universe would disappear, as at some point it will happen and then it will originate again, something that happens infinitely.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall