Palestine/Israel war - What can we do to stop this genocide?

[Leo Gura]

@Vrubel Al Jazeera English does good, fair coverage. Don't know what you mean.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Vrubel Al Jazeera English does good, fair coverage. Don't know what you mean.

They can't understand why Israel is getting so much support. They totally demonized the EU as an organization supporting apartheid for displaying a giant Israeli flag after the attacks. For them, Hamas are legitimate resistance. They had articles saying that the baby slaying was just fake news, vicious Israeli propaganda. they totally skimmed over the atrocities. They just have great production quality and some Western journalists who are not totally biased. But their in-house analysts are pure propagandists. 

They show very graphic images from Gaae but in the kibbutz that was massacred, they just showed a damaged car and some equipment left by Hamas.

The fact that Aljazeera Arabic is just blatant anti-Semitic garbage with all kinds of conspiracies and holocaust denial should tell you enough about their agenda. They just have a particular facade for a Western audience.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by Vrubel

[abundance]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@lina Well, you have to ask yourself, How else can Hamas be eliminated? Because it certainly cannot be allowed to stay in power.

The unfortunate reality is that eliminating Hamas will involve a lot of collateral damage. Hamas is a cancer within the Palestinian population. Eliminating a cancer is very difficult and comes with serious side-effects.

I wish that wasn't the case, but that's the situation. Peace negotiations can resume once Hamas is eliminated and Palestinians have sane leadership.

 

 Smh. All those psychedelic trips and meditation retreats and you still lack basic compassion and empathy. 

 

[StarStruck]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's far from the case.

Don't insult the Palestinians with such talk.

Your views of politics are a bad look on you. Just stick to philosophy please:

https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/

Whopping 58%! 
 

And even higher % identify with Hamas ..they just thought that attack wasn’t that shabby. 

By the way I don’t have any affinity with Hamas. I’m just stating the facts. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by StarStruck

[Lila9]

Israel is not fighting against Palestinians and innocent civilians, it's fighting against the terrorists who lead these innocent people, namely Hamas.

These terrorists receive a significant amount of money to improve the lives of the Palestinians, but they use it for weapons, targeting innocent Israeli/Jewish people.

Hamas deliberately locates themselves and their weapons in civilian homes, schools, and hospitals in Gaza so if Israel attacking Hamas, it will harm innocent people on the way.

They don't care about Palestinians. Instead, they cynically exploit their deaths to receive support and mercy from the West, and it really works.

Israel ensures it informs citizens before attacking the Hamas basements in the citizens' buildings, providing them with time to escape and save their lives. Israel is not perfect, but it does what it can to avoid harming innocent people.

Unlike Hamas, which brutally kills innocent Israelis, committing acts such as violent assaults on Israeli women, beheading babies, burning people alive, shooting unarmed individuals without any means to defend themselves, and cutting the belly of a pregnant Israeli woman. These are just a few examples of their brutality.

Some argue that they are more brutal than ISIS. I have never heard of the Israeli people or army committing such cruel acts against Palestinians. Nothing can justify what Hamas has done to Israeli people.

Israel does not want to kill or harm Palestinians, it simply aims to defend itself.

Hamas does want to harm Israeli innocent people, and it does it deliberately and believes that there is value and heroism in doing that, in killing innocent Israeli population.

From Hamas's POV, it's very lucrative to be a terrorist, especially against Israel.

If you are a terrorist and you're caught alive by Israelis, you will be imprisoned, but you will live like a king in the prison, literally like a king because they receive such good conditions. You even have the opportunity to get an education.

If you are a terrorist and you die, by Islamic belief, you will enjoy intimacy with 72 virgins and will be defined as a "Shaheed", you will be remembered as a hero, and your family will receive lots of respect.

Now Israel has informed the residents of North Gaza to evacuate to the south of Gaza because Hamas has their basements in the north. Israel wants to destroy the leadership of Hamas because it's fed up with its brutality. This demonstrates that Israel's primary objective is to target terrorists, not innocent Palestinians.

On the other hand, Hamas told the residents of North Gaza to stay because Hamas wants them to die as a result of Israel attacking North Gaza, as their deaths serve Hamas by bringing more support to Palestine, which means more money for Hamas to carry out their actions.

The enemy of Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and radical Islam, first and foremost.

I've watched a video about Palestinians cursing Hamas for what they have done to them.

The interest should be to eliminate terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah and not modern and integrated countries like Israel.

Israel is the most democratic, conscious, developed, and sane country in the Middle East.

It has such integrity that it hospitalizes terrorists who killed Israeli people in excellent hospitals in Israel, which is insane. I don't know about other countries that do the same to people who are trying to destroy it.

The reality in Israel is even scarier than the reality in Gaza because, as an Israeli, you don't know when the next attack from Hamas is coming. You can be at the beach, at home sleeping, at a party with friends, and a terrorist can try to kill you by surprise at any moment, or by a rocket randomly and unexpectedly launched at your home. Your life and the lives of your loved ones are too fragile. No matter what you do or where you go, you always have to carry in your mind the chance that you and your family/friends will get hurt or die in a terror attack, at the hands of someone who deliberately wants to kill you and will take great pride in it. You have to be super alert.

If you are a Palestinian in Gaza, at least you get the chance to be informed that in an hour, your home will be bombed because there is a Hamas basement on the roof of the building you are living in, so you have the opportunity to escape and save your life.

The Israeli people don't have this privilege.

Yes, some radicals in Israel wants to occupy more land, but it doesn't justify brutally killing them by Hamas.

Most of Israeli citizens don't want to occupy more land.

Even if they wanted, that's fair in my opinion.

Jewish people have only one country while Muslims have more than 50 countries.

More than 50 countries.

But ironically, Muslims are so conflicted between eachother. No Muslim country wants Palestinians in their territory. 

 

 

 

 

[zurew]

16 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Your views of politics are a bad look on you. Just stick to philosophy please:

https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/

Whopping 58%! 

I would be careful with what "supporting Hamas" actually means. Do they support Hamas or "supporting hamas" means they support firing back at Israel? Because those two are different and it would be interesting to see how the survey was conducted so that we can know what people were actually voting for and how those questions were phrased.

Or if I were to ask them do you support Hamas or a 2 state solution and if they were to answer 'Hamas', does that really mean that they support Hamas or does that mean more like they support Hamas over a 2 state solution? 

Also it would be interesting to see how big the sample size was.

 

Just to be clear - I will easily concede that it could be the case that there are that many Palestinians who support Hamas - I just know that these surveys can be misleading depending on how the questions were phrased and on how the survey was conducted.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, lina said:

the Israeli far-right government is a bigger cancer.

The Israeli right wing is problematic, but it is not a cancer like Hamas. It's just not the same.

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

36 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel is not fighting against Palestinians and innocent civilians, it's fighting against the terrorists who lead these innocent people, namely Hamas.

These terrorists receive a significant amount of money to improve the lives of the Palestinians, but they use it for weapons, targeting innocent Israeli/Jewish people.

Hamas deliberately locates themselves and their weapons in civilian homes, schools, and hospitals in Gaza so if Israel attacking Hamas, it will harm innocent people on the way.

They don't care about Palestinians. Instead, they cynically exploit their deaths to receive support and mercy from the West, and it really works.

Israel ensures it informs citizens before attacking the Hamas basements in the citizens' buildings, providing them with time to escape and save their lives. Israel is not perfect, but it does what it can to avoid harming innocent people.

Unlike Hamas, which brutally kills innocent Israelis, committing acts such as violent assaults on Israeli women, beheading babies, burning people alive, shooting unarmed individuals without any means to defend themselves, and cutting the belly of a pregnant Israeli woman. These are just a few examples of their brutality.

Some argue that they are more brutal than ISIS. I have never heard of the Israeli people or army committing such cruel acts against Palestinians. Nothing can justify what Hamas has done to Israeli people.

Israel does not want to kill or harm Palestinians, it simply aims to defend itself.

Hamas does want to harm Israeli innocent people, and it does it deliberately and believes that there is value and heroism in doing that, in killing innocent Israeli population.

From Hamas's POV, it's very lucrative to be a terrorist, especially against Israel.

If you are a terrorist and you're caught alive by Israelis, you will be imprisoned, but you will live like a king in the prison, literally like a king because they receive such good conditions. You even have the opportunity to get an education.

If you are a terrorist and you die, by Islamic belief, you will enjoy intimacy with 72 virgins and will be defined as a "Shaheed", you will be remembered as a hero, and your family will receive lots of respect.

Now Israel has informed the residents of North Gaza to evacuate to the south of Gaza because Hamas has their basements in the north. Israel wants to destroy the leadership of Hamas because it's fed up with its brutality. This demonstrates that Israel's primary objective is to target terrorists, not innocent Palestinians.

On the other hand, Hamas told the residents of North Gaza to stay because Hamas wants them to die as a result of Israel attacking North Gaza, as their deaths serve Hamas by bringing more support to Palestine, which means more money for Hamas to carry out their actions.

The enemy of Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and radical Islam, first and foremost.

I've watched a video about Palestinians cursing Hamas for what they have done to them.

The interest should be to eliminate terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah and not modern and integrated countries like Israel.

Israel is the most democratic, conscious, developed, and sane country in the Middle East.

It has such integrity that it hospitalizes terrorists who killed Israeli people in excellent hospitals in Israel, which is insane. I don't know about other countries that do the same to people who are trying to destroy it.

The reality in Israel is even scarier than the reality in Gaza because, as an Israeli, you don't know when the next attack from Hamas is coming. You can be at the beach, at home sleeping, at a party with friends, and a terrorist can try to kill you by surprise at any moment, or by a rocket randomly and unexpectedly launched at your home. Your life and the lives of your loved ones are too fragile. No matter what you do or where you go, you always have to carry in your mind the chance that you and your family/friends will get hurt or die in a terror attack, at the hands of someone who deliberately wants to kill you and will take great pride in it. You have to be super alert.

If you are a Palestinian in Gaza, at least you get the chance to be informed that in an hour, your home will be bombed because there is a Hamas basement on the roof of the building you are living in, so you have the opportunity to escape and save your life.

The Israeli people don't have this privilege.

Yes, some radicals in Israel wants to occupy more land, but it doesn't justify brutally killing them by Hamas.

Most of Israeli citizens don't want to occupy more land.

Even if they wanted, that's fair in my opinion.

Jewish people have only one country while Muslims have more than 50 countries.

More than 50 countries.

But ironically, Muslims are so conflicted between eachother. No Muslim country wants Palestinians in their territory. 

 

 

 

 

   At least this is more of an argument for Israel than @Scholar's. Unfortunately, what you're doing is hyper focusing on just HAMAs vs Israel, whilat ignoring the build-up of this Israel/Palestinian issues, which are:

1. The systematic oppression by Israel, by first displacing Palestinians from within Israel onto the west bank and to Gaza, so they can build more homes and invite Jews from other countries to inhabit the constructed homes.

2. A mostly Zionist government, mostly lead by ethnocentric statemen, who were racist and religious nationalistic towards Christians and Muslims, who were also elected into power by Israeli people. The same Zionism statesmen that push for a 2 party state not because of democracy, but because they want an ethnostate, a majority Jew to Muslim voting and representation, so whatever policies for Palestinian people are vastly out numbered by Israeli votes.

3. The obvious material challenges to Gaza, and the increasing humanitarian crisis caused by land grabbing Zionist Israelis, happening over 70 years of slow land grabbing by Israel. These material challenges, plus the systemic racism by Israel's onto Palestinians, and a Palestine being a puppet for Israel government, just like what Russia has done to it's satellite countries, is what lead to the formation of HAMAs.

4. Intel provided by Egypt, a week before the HAMAs attack, which for whatever reason Israel ignored.

5. Israel gave Palestinians a warning to leave the buildings 1 hour before their retaliation, to the north, yet Palestinians can't flee north, so what now?

   By over focusing on HAMAs, and not addressing the long term systemic issue between Israel and Palestine, even if HAMAs gets wiped out, what if Israel doesn't fix it's land grabbing issue, will another terrorist group rise up to pushback on Israel? Also, wiping out HAMAs entails high casualties onto Palestinians, which will likely change political international opinions onto Israel. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Buck Edwards]

It's best to stay away from this cancer. 

[lina]

@Leo Gura  The way I see it is if Hamas is a cancer, the Israel's far-right government is a bigger cancer. They keep taking in more lands and have been causing far more collateral damage than any side. When Palestinian protest peacefully they get shot at, for that reason peaceful resistance seems futile to many Palestinians.   According to this representative Hamas already offered to exchange hostages but Israel seems to keep going on with their plan to take over Gaza and end the dream of Palestinian country  ( I can't find my original reply I hid it because it was incomplete ) 

 

[PurpleTree]

24 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

 

Israel ensures it informs citizens before attacking the Hamas basements in the citizens' buildings, providing them with time to escape and save their lives. Israel is not perfect, but it does what it can to avoid harming innocent people..

From Hamas's POV, it's very lucrative to be a terrorist, especially against Israel.

If you are a terrorist and you're caught alive by Israelis, you will be imprisoned, but you will live like a king in the prison, literally like a king because they receive such good conditions. You even have the opportunity to get an education.

If you are a terrorist and you die, by Islamic belief, you will enjoy intimacy with 72 virgins and will be defined as a "Shaheed", you will be remembered as a hero, and your family will receive lots of respect.

Now Israel has informed the residents of North Gaza to evacuate to the south of Gaza because Hamas has their basements in the north. Israel wants to destroy the leadership of Hamas because it's fed up with its brutality. This demonstrates that Israel's primary objective is to target terrorists, not innocent Palestinians.

On the other hand, Hamas told the residents of North Gaza to stay because Hamas wants them to die as a result of Israel attacking North Gaza, as their deaths serve Hamas by bringing more support to Palestine, which means more money for Hamas to carry out their actions.

The enemy of Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and radical Islam, first and foremost.

I've watched a video about Palestinians cursing Hamas for what they have done to them.

The interest should be to eliminate terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah and not modern and integrated countries like Israel.

Israel is the most democratic, conscious, developed, and sane country in the Middle East.

It has such integrity that it hospitalizes terrorists who killed Israeli people in excellent hospitals in Israel, which is insane. I don't know about other countries that do the same to people who are trying to destroy it.

The reality in Israel is even scarier than the reality in Gaza because, as an Israeli, you don't know when the next attack from Hamas is coming. You can be at the beach, at home sleeping, at a party with friends, and a terrorist can try to kill you by surprise at any moment, or by a rocket randomly and unexpectedly launched at your home. Your life and the lives of your loved ones are too fragile. No matter what you do or where you go, you always have to carry in your mind the chance that you and your family/friends will get hurt or die in a terror attack, at the hands of someone who deliberately wants to kill you and will take great pride in it. You have to be super alert.

If you are a Palestinian in Gaza, at least you get the chance to be informed that in an hour, your home will be bombed because there is a Hamas basement on the roof of the building you are living in, so you have the opportunity to escape and save your life.

The Israeli people don't have this privilege.

Yes, some radicals in Israel wants to occupy more land, but it doesn't justify brutally killing them by Hamas.

Most of Israeli citizens don't want to occupy more land.

Even if they wanted, that's fair in my opinion.

Jewish people have only one country while Muslims have more than 50 countries.

More than 50 countries.

But ironically, Muslims are so conflicted between eachother. No Muslim country wants Palestinians in their territory. 

 

 

 

 

About idf informing warning/texting palestine residents to leave buildings before bombing, won‘t then hamas guys also just leave?

 

and about israel warning palestinians to leave the north.

the un ambassador said it‘s impossible for the palestinians to flee the north, evacuation is impossible , so what now?

 

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Your views of politics are a bad look on you. Just stick to philosophy please:

https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/

Whopping 58%! 
 

And even higher % identify with Hamas ..they just thought that attack wasn’t that shabby. 

Even if 60% have some sympathies for Hamas does not make them equivalent to Hamas. Similiar to how everyone in Nazi Germany was part of the Nazi party, but not the same as the active Nazi core.

You have to carefully distinguish between those who are too far gone, too radicalized, and those who are moderates and can be deradicalized.

What needs to be eliminated is those who only want violence as a solution and those who are suicidal. Those who would plan terrorist attacks.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[lina]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The Israeli right wing is problematic, but it is not a cancer like Hamas. It's just not the same.

@Leo Gura I don't really see why ? Actually the way Israel's policies with this war, and their never-ending injustice and apartheid is considered an actual terrorist- making machine. An upcoming generation of new extremists are a natural result of such circumstances. 

[Raze]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Israeli right wing is problematic, but it is not a cancer like Hamas. It's just not the same.

They funded and empowered hamas, refuse to budge on the millions trapped in Gaza, bomb lebanon and Syria constantly, and continue to try and provoke Iran and start a war, they were also key in getting the USA to go to war with Iraq. They have caused way more damage than Hamas.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Raze

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, lina said:

@Leo Gura I don't really see why ? Actually the way Israel's policies with this war, and their never-ending injustice and apartheid is considered an actual terrorist- making machine. An upcoming generation of new extremists are a natural result of such circumstances. 

There have been many islamist terror attacks in europe and around the world killing defenseless civilians that didn’t have anything to do with israel

[lina]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I‘m not sure about this guy

but he and his community are doing a „peace meditation“ on sunday if that‘s something you want to do.

 

@PurpleTree  Thank you for sharing will check it out. 

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

There have been many islamist terror attacks in europe and around the world killing defenseless civilians that didn’t have anything to do with israel

Notice how these only really started kicking in when western countries slaughtered hundreds of thousands in mass bombing campaigns and supported and installed dictators in the Middle East. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, lina said:

I don't really see why ?

Because Netanyahu does not sit around planning to target civilians in Gaza with attacks. If you think he does that, you're being biased.

Netanyahu could have killed 10,000 civilians in Gaza a month ago if that was his agenda.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@PurpleTree @Raze

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

There have been many islamist terror attacks in europe and around the world killing defenseless civilians that didn’t have anything to do with israel

 

Just now, Raze said:

Notice how these only really started kicking in when western countries slaughtered hundreds of thousands in mass bombing campaigns and supported and installed dictators in the Middle East. 

   To be clear, this has been going on between the Islamic empires and Christian European powers in history, like with the Ottoman empire versus the west, or even before that the Byzantine Empire versus the Ottoman empire.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

Notice how these only really started kicking in when western countries slaughtered hundreds of thousands in mass bombing campaigns and supported and installed dictators in the Middle East. 

Victim mentality is deep in you