New War In Israel / Gaza

[PurpleTree]

i have a very very very elaborate theory on islam but i don’t want to offend sweet people too much so I’ll just not say it 💜 anywho 

[Lila9]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

i have a very very very elaborate theory on islam but i don’t want to offend sweet people too much so I’ll just not say it 💜 anywho 

Please share.

[PurpleTree]

Ok cease fire now

world peace now

down with ideologies 

💜🪬🦆

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Please share.

You just want me to get banned

[Karmadhi]

13 hours ago, Nivsch said:

are dealing with a clever virus and not just a stupid suicidal animal.

You said it perfectly. Hamas is indeed a virus in Palestinian society, and the way Israel is dealing with it is just by killing the patient instead of just the virus. Also, the way Israel is dealing with Hamas, i assure you you will get a new Hamas which will be even more ruthless.

Most of Hamas fighters, including the ones that did the horrible acts in October are ORPHAS because their parents have been killed by Israeli strikes.

A new generation of orphans is being created that will make another Hamas.

If you create a new Hamas by destroying the old one, what is the point? 

Also Hamas often claimed that they are ready to release the hostages if Israel released thousands of Palestinian prisoners, yet the PM refused. Why? 

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Most of Hamas fighters, including the ones that did the horrible acts in October are ORPHAS because their parents have been killed by Israeli strikes.

What is your source to the claim that most of them are orphans?

They may have grown in regular families but were taught in schools to hate Jews and to kill them, to see Hamas terrorists as role models and something to aspire to because what else a child in Gaza can aspire to?

And it's not because of Israel because Israel isn't the one who dictate the school program in Gaza, nor the poor conditions. Israel is not the one who take the stream of millions to Gaza and use it to create rockets and weapons against itself at the expense of making Gaza a civilizied state. There is a limition of how much Israel can be blamed. 

Even if some of them are killing innocents because they are orphans due to their terrorist father killed by IDF it doesn't give them the approval to murder innocents. They are still accountable to their behavior and choices.

Hamas are not just a group of sad orphans boys who want a revenge.

This is a western projection.

There is a strong ideology that takes the Islamic principal of Jihad very seriously, to the extreme.

They don't value life as much as westerns, they expect and even sanctify death. 

They are proud of their Shaheed father who entered to Israel and sacrificed himself only to take the lives of a few Jews with him. 

 

28 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Also Hamas often claimed that they are ready to release the hostages if Israel released thousands of Palestinian prisoners, yet the PM refused. Why? 

This is tricky because if Israel will release all the Palestinian prisoners, which tend to be dangerous terrorists, it will put itself at risk of Hamas getting stronger and more innocents being killed and even more hostages taken. It actually encourages Hamas to use the tactic of taking hostages in the future, gives them a positive reinforcement to keep doing that.

Israel released 1000 Palestinian prisoners for one Israeli soldier who was in Hamas captivaty for 5 years.

Among the 1000 Palestinian prisoners there were very dangerous terrorists who have taken a big part in the October 7th attack (were the minds behind this).

This is why there is no simple solution to that. 

Seems that Israel is trying to find the hostages by physically looking for them in Gaza.

I think they have already found a few.

 

[Lila9]

@zazen What in your opinion Israel should do so the world will be satisfied and stop criticizing it?

 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@zazen What in your opinion Israel should do so the world will be satisfied and stop criticizing it?

 

imo cease fire then stop the settlements 

then find partners in palestine to discuss a two state solution 

[Whitney Edwards]

What is he doing in there? 

 

[bariumly]

3 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

It's terrorists who are violent not Islam. It can be easily mended through proper education and alleviation of poverty. Most children who join terrorist organizations are extremely poor. Think about it. They just need a better home. Over time participation in terrorism will decline. It's an old ghost. 

There is a Machiavellian strategy to portray ISLAM as evil; that's their angle. Here's another truth behind the lines:

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, Jihad was called (By Saudis as they're Muslim leader) against Soviets.
When the Syrian regime kills its people, Jihad is called against Assad. Same for Yemen.
But when Gaza is under a barbarian attack, no one calls for Jihad. Why? It's against their interests. 

@PurpleTree True Muslims know the value of a living soul. Except if we were attacked , we're allowed to fight back. 
 shoot your theory and we will do a proof by contradiction. Assuming the opposite of what you want to prove and then demonstrating that this assumption leads to a logical contradiction 

[Lila9]

IDF exposing tunnels and explosive munitions Hamas hiding in a children's hospital sponsored by World Health Organization in Gaza:

 

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

imo cease fire then stop the settlements 

then find partners in palestine to discuss a two state solution 

Ceasefire only gives Hamas time to get more weapon and get stronger.

What partners there are in Palestine to discuss a two state solution? There is no one reliable and moderate authority in Palestine that it can be negotiated with. Even if there is, as long as Hamas and the deadly ideology against Jews and Israel exists, the two state solution is dangerous to Israel. 

[PurpleTree]

16 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Ceasefire only gives Hamas time to get more weapon and get stronger.

What partners there are in Palestine to discuss a two state solution? There is no one reliable and moderate authority in Palestine that it can be negotiated with. Even if there is, as long as Hamas and the deadly ideology against Jews and Israel exists, the two state solution is dangerous to Israel. 

But there’s no other way imo

it‘s basically impossible to eradicate hamas 

and their leaders are relaxing in qatar and elsewhere 

Edited November 14, 2023 by PurpleTree

[bariumly]

21 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

IDF exposing tunnels and explosive munitions Hamas hiding in a children's hospital sponsored by World Health Organization in Gaza:

 

ISRAELI PROPAGANDIST points to a random calendar at the Rantisi hospital as "evidence" of a "hostage keepers' list" with "terrorists' names". But the ONLY thing on that "list" is literally the days of the week (Saturday-Friday).

@Lila9 I guess you know how to use Google right? there's an app called Google Lens, try to picture this image and tell me those names 
 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-2iPLeW4AAxf3f?format=jpg&name=medium

Edited November 14, 2023 by bariumly
typo

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

But there’s no other way imo

it‘s basically impossible to eradicate hamas 

and their leaders are relaxing in qatar and elsewhere 

So what if their leaders are elsewhere if they have no power in the region any longer? Not sure I understand why that point is brought up. If all you did was eliminate the heads of Hamas, nothing tangible would change... as the next in command would become the leader and status quo would continue.

Those leaders in Qatar will have their day too.

Hamas will be finished very soon. That's not to say radicalization and culture will change, but the entity known today as Hamas will cease to be. Now what you do with that power vacuum to actually effect change is a different story. That is the truly difficult part. I hope something good comes of it.

Edited November 14, 2023 by hundreth

[Lila9]

18 minutes ago, bariumly said:

ISRAELI PROPAGANDIST points to a random calendar at the Rantisi hospital as "evidence" of a "hostage keepers' list" with "terrorists' names". But the ONLY thing on that "list" is literally the days of the week (Saturday-Friday).

@Lila9 I guess you know how to use Google right? there's an app called Google Lens, try to picture this image and tell me those names 
 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-2iPLeW4AAxf3f?format=jpg&name=medium

Do you know how to use Google translate? Because I know and I've found that this table is since the 7th October and its headline is "Battle of Al-Aqsa".

How is that related to children's hospital?

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Lila9

[PurpleTree]

13 minutes ago, hundreth said:

So what if their leaders are elsewhere if they have no power in the region any longer? Not sure I understand why that point is brought up. If all you did was eliminate the heads of Hamas, nothing tangible would change... as the next in command would become the leader and status quo would continue.

Those leaders in Qatar will have their day too.

Hamas will be finished very soon. That's not to say radicalization and culture will change, but the entity known today as Hamas will cease to be. Now what you do with that power vacuum to actually effect change is a different story. That is the truly difficult part. I hope something good comes of it.

The leaders are much more responsible than some low level poor kid who works for them

if israel doesn’t take out the leaders i can’t take them seriously 

[Lila9]

Hamas leaders luxury life:

 

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

The leaders are much more responsible than some low level poor kid who works for them

if israel doesn’t take out the leaders i can’t take them seriously 

Low level poor kid? Are you aware how command hierarchies work?

The goal is to break Hamas' control of the region. How you do that is by going in and rooting out Hamas from the ground up. Hamas is like a hydra with many heads. You cut one off, another grows back. Israel has eliminated many of their leaders and commanders over the years. This is the necessary step to uproot them completely.

It's not mutually exclusive with eliminating the leadership, it's just doing that alone doesn't solve anything. The Hamas leaders will be taken out too.

Edited November 14, 2023 by hundreth

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Lila9 said:

@zazen What in your opinion Israel should do so the world will be satisfied and stop criticizing it?

 

Like Elon Musk said you can't try to get rid of Hamas in a way that only recruit more people to it ie militarily unless you genocide the whole population - even if they are ethnically displaced into Egypt or wherever, they will only plot their return and revenge from further away.  

If Israel or any countries safety requires the occupation, imprisonment and oppression of a people, you don't have safety and never will. History has shown us this by the dismantling of the colonial powers. If the return of Jews to the land was through immigration that's one thing, but to take the land off people already there is another and is bound to be resisted. The good intentions of Jews and Jewish sympathizers who sought to have them be somewhere safe was hijacked by a colonial nationalist mindset which was present at the time. The cause and sentiment of return and a safe haven is fine, but the strategy and way in which it was and is being done isn't.

Everything that colonial power gains will be inherently violent and must be upheld through violence - that violence will be justified through ideas of superiority and the idea that those you oppress must be more violent and oppressive than you. And when that oppression is resisted and eventually violently resisted, that violence will be used to feed the fear needed to maintain the oppressive structure / apartheid state, a cycle set in motion by the colonizers and which frames the colonized as the undeveloped violent ones that need be tamed in a modern world.

The key thing that needs ending is the occupation, oppression and apartheid state. The solution is either a one secular state that is equal or a two state solution but a proper two state solution which allows Palestinians control of its borders - not a state like in West Bank where Israel control their lives more and more without dignity.

The two state solution carrot has been dangled in front of the Palestinians for years and all this time Israel has been allowing settlements to encroach the land of West Bank - knowing that this will eventually make it almost impossible because you'd have to remove over 500'000 settlers. Ariel Sharon became minister for Agriculture in 1977 and promoted a settlement program for West Bank and Gaza. And now Tony Blair is reportedly being installed as a humanitarian coordinator in Gaza. He is a patron of JNF with Netenyahu which is the largest settlement building organisation.

It's clear that they don't want a two state solution, they want all the land and feel entitled to it. Just take a look at the foundation first prime minister of Israel:

“We must expel Arabs and take their place. Up to now, all our aspirations have been based on an assumption – one that has been vindicated throughout our activities in the country
– that there is enough room in the land for the Arabs and ourselves. But if we are compelled to use force – not in order to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev or Transjordan, but in order to guarantee our right to settle there – our force will enable us to do so.”

- Ben Gurion

Source: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2013/04/06/the-ben-gurion-letter/

 

The problem is easier to see, but the solution harder to get to unfortunately. Both sides need new and less radical leadership and both peoples need to transmute their traumas rather than become terrorized by them and perpetuate the cycle of trauma and distrust.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by zazen