New War In Israel / Gaza

[zazen]

6 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura It's clear Hamas is running circles around the IDF. They don't give a shit about anything and the world is jumping onto Israel. The hospital strike is a great victory for Hamas, without knowing the circumstances or the full story the world is rushing in to condemn Israel. It's definitely possible for Hamas to have its HQ underneath the hospital.

The dead are already dead but those hostages are an incredibly traumatic open wound.  For some context, Israel used to release scores of terrorists just in return for some dead bodies of IDF soldiers. That was the Israeli mentality but now this whole value system is shaken. Israelis will have to cope with this great loss and powerlessness. They no longer can view themselves as some small precious nation, but also as a nation that knows how to take a sacrifice.

 

? 

Israel is isolating and villianizing itself on the world stage all by itself. Suicide by arrogant stupidity. 

[Karmadhi]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Better to pave the way as much as possible

Hospitals are neutral places which should not be bombed. There are international laws regarding this stuff.

How come when Russia does this the world looses its shit? I can use same argument there.

I cannot understand how people in this forum are defending such blatant war crimes. 

Self biased at its finest.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

causing possibly over 25.000 civilian deaths in the siege of Mariupol alone, and much of it was simply for military reasons.

The official death toll for Ukranian civilians according to UN is around 10.000 or so. The 25.000 is not confirmed.

Also, keep in mind Russia is being punished heavily for its actions, Israel is getting support. If Israel got the same treatment as Russia did then nobody would be so angry.

I cannot believe people in this forum are defending such blatant war crimes.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Scholar]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

Hospitals are neutral places which should not be bombed. There are international laws regarding this stuff.

How come when Russia does this the world looses its shit? I can use same argument there

It is not necessarily a war crime, and if Ukrainians built military installations in hospitals, the Russians could be bombing a hospital with civilians in it and it not being considered a warcrime:

https://genevasolutions.news/peace-humanitarian/ukraine-is-targeting-hospitals-always-a-war-crime
 

Quote

But humanitarian law is quite pragmatic so an exception applies when hospitals and mobile medical units are used, outside their humanitarian duty, to commit acts harmful to the enemy. The typical example would be the launching of an attack from a hospital. But even then, there must be a warning before the attack. If it remains unheeded and the hospital loses its protection, two fundamental principles of IHL apply to the attack:

The principle of precaution, which requires the attacker to take all feasible precautions to minimise or avoid loss of lives and injury in the civilian population, as well as damage to civilian objects, for example by using sufficiently accurate weapons and munitions.

The principle of proportionality, which requires ensuring that the attack will not cause excessive harm to civilians, compared to the anticipated military advantage.

 

 

[Karmadhi]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

It is not necessarily a war crime, and if Ukrainians built military installations in hospitals, the Russians could be bombing a hospital with civilians in it and it not being considered a warcrime:

Say whatever you want but Russia is sanctioned as hell and condemned by the west and Israel is getting support.

How would you justify this?

This is the real reason people are so angry. If Israel got the same treatment as Russia is getting by the international community, it would not be such a hot topic right now.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Breakingthewall]

@Nabd

7 hours ago, Scholar said:

Again, if the Ukrainians did to Russia what Hamas did to Israel, I would expect Russia to nuke Kiev.

I just read about the Sabra massacre that nadbd mentioned before where 3000 Palestinian civilians were murdered by christians, rapes, children with crushed heads, castrated men, scalp. nothing new. Well yes, the fact that the images have been diffused. I have had an emotional and hateful reaction quite serious when I saw it, but the reality is that it is something absolutely common

Edited October 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The official death toll for Ukranian civilians according to UN is around 10.000 or so. The 25.000 is not confirmed.

Also, keep in mind Russia is being punished heavily for its actions, Israel is getting support. If Israel got the same treatment as Russia did then nobody would be so angry.

I cannot believe people in this forum are defending such blatant war crimes.

The UN number is highly undercounted because it does not count most of the deaths which occured on currently occupied territory, which is where the vast majority of civilian deaths would have occured.

 

Israel is getting supported because it is in retaliation, it is not unprovoked. I don't see people in here defending war crimes.

[Karmadhi]

Just now, Scholar said:

Israel is getting supported because it is in retaliation, it is not unprovoked.

So is Russia attack on Ukraine by your logic. Yet West condemns it. Why so?

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

So is Russia attack on Ukraine by your logic. Yet West condemns it. Why so?

Did Ukrainians sneak into Russia on Christmas and rape / murder the equivalent of 30 9/11s worth of people?

Edited October 17, 2023 by hundreth

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Say whatever you want but Russia is sanctioned as hell and condemned by the west and Israel is getting support.

How would you justify this?

This is the real reason people are so angry. If Israel got the same treatment as Russia is getting by the international community, it would not be such a hot topic right now.

The real reason why people are so angry is because they are being manipulated by social media algorithms. Israel is not acting any different from how the US or any other country would act and has acted in the past.

 

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I just read about the Sabra massacre that nadbd mentioned before where 3000 Palestinian civilians were murdered, rapes, children with crushed heads, castrated men, scalp. nothing new. Well yes, the fact that the images have been diffused. I have had an emotional and hateful reaction quite serious when I saw it, but the reality is that it is something absolutely common

Hatred begets hatred.

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Israel is not acting any different from how the US or any other country would act and has acted in the past.

Israel is acting just like Russia does.

2 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Did Ukrainians sneak into Russia and rape / murder the equivalent of 30 9/11s worth of people?

Well when you ethnic cleanse, commit genocide, steal land and treat millions as subhumans for 70 years that is what is expected to happen. I feel sorry for the innocents that were killed but it was not unprovoked. Israel attitude towards Palestine is the true cause of all this conflict. 

In 2014 alone Israel killed more than Hamas did a few days ago. Their attitude towards Palestine is same as Nazis had towards Slavs.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

The real reason why people are so angry is because they are being manipulated by social media algorithms. Israel is not acting any different from how the US or any other country would act and has acted in the past.

Crimes are crimes no matter who does them.

Should everyone in the USA stop complaining about Russia attacking Ukraine because the US attacked Iraq?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Raze

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

So is Russia attack on Ukraine by your logic. Yet West condemns it. Why so?

If Ukrainians had massacred over a thousand russian civilians in a senseless act of terrorism designed to provoke a war, I don't think anyone would be condemning Russia in the way they currently are, even if there was a history of oppression in Ukraine.

[Karmadhi]

@Scholar There were plenty of crimes being commited in Donbask , a province mainly Russian by Ukraine nationalists. Google it a bit. 

Also those sensless act of terrorism as you call it is the result of Israel treatment of Palestinians for over 70 years. Do not ignore historical context here. This is not an independent act. 

You can see from 2008 the ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed is 20 to 1.

So those acts of sensless terrorism is the outcome you get from your policies.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

If Ukrainians had massacred over a thousand russian civilians in a senseless act of terrorism designed to provoke a war, I don't think anyone would be condemning Russia in the way they currently are, even if there was a history of oppression in Ukraine.

If Russia was treating Ukraine like Israel treats Gaza for decades, Russia would have been empathically condemned and blamed for any Ukrainian attack.

[Philipp]

I wonder when politicians will have the courage to call Israel out. Everyone seems too afraid to do it. Scared of being smired as an antesemite.

[Leo Gura]

Looks like Israel is gonna create a PR disaster for themselves here.

If they are gonna bomb hospitals they gotta explain why.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Israel is acting just like Russia does.

Well when you ethnic cleanse, commit genocide, steal land and treat millions as subhumans for 70 years that is what is expected to happen. I feel sorry for the innocents that were killed but it was not unprovoked. Israel attitude towards Palestine is the true cause of all this conflict. 

In 2014 alone Israel killed more than Hamas did a few days ago. Their attitude towards Palestine is same as Nazis had towards Slavs.

I feel for the Palestinian people and the IDF is no saint, but I can't take you seriously when you make hyperbolic statements such as "commit genocide" and "same as Nazis."

The Palestinian population has exploded while Israel could have wiped out the entire population during these 70 years. They must really suck at genocide. They've also attempted to move towards peace with the Palestinians on many occasions and form a two state solution. Didn't work out that well for the Jews in Nazi Germany unfortunately. To you it's all the same though.

[tuckerwphotography]

Some photos speak louder than words. 

[Scholar]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

Israel is acting just like Russia does.

Israel is acting just like the US was after 9/11.

 

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

Well when you ethnic cleanse, commit genocide, steal land and treat millions as subhumans for 70 years that is what is expected to happen. I feel sorry for the innocents that were killed but it was not unprovoked. Israel attitude towards Palestine is the true cause of all this conflict. 

This is a very one-sided view of the issue. The cause of the conflict is found on both sides.

One of the reasons why others forms of Apartheid and racial segregation in the past were able to be resolved was, because the people who were oppressed did not have it as their goal the destruction of the state in which they existed. In Apartheid South Africa, the oppressed black people did not want to destroy South Africa, but merely want the same equal rights as the white class.

This is different from this conflict, because the arabs wanted to destroy Israel since the very beginning, and still want to do so. Of course, not every palestinian wants to destroy Israel, but a large enough portion does so as to make this issue impossible to be resolved if both sides do not align their perspective with a greater will for peace.

 

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Scholar There were plenty of crimes being commited in Donbask , a province mainly Russian by Ukraine nationalists. Google it a bit. 

Nothing on this scale and brutality. Ukrainians did not have the destruction of the Russian state as their official goal.

 

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Also those sensless act of terrorism as you call it is the result of Israel treatment of Palestinians for over 70 years. Do not ignore historical context here. This is not an independent act. 

This is just a one sided view. While the Israeli's are mistreating and violating human rights, they are not the sole cause of this conflict. The historical context is such that both sides are at fault for being unable to establish proper peace.

But none of this matters in the context of the act that was committed. Hamas went over the line, and a nation state will respond.

 

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

You can see from 2008 the ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed is 20 to 1.

So those acts of sensless terrorism is the outcome you get from your policies.

The reason why the Israeli's kill more palestinians is not on a lack of effort of Hamas, but simply technological superiority on the side of the Israeli's. Usually, the deaths caused by Israel are in retaliation to attacks from Hamas. You cannot simply compare numbers and then point at how the bad guy is, that's not how this works.

You can blame Netanyahu's regime for much of what is happening, but that doesn't change the reality of how a nation state will respond inevitably given the circumstances.

 

Look, I can't argue with 4 people. You guys need to get off twitter and read some objective analysis of this issue. You are incapable of anything but showcasing your moral outrage, which will not achieve anything.