Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said: @Leo Gura what do you mean you were wrong about hostages? Were you expecting a large number of hostages? Be clear. I thought all the hostages would be killed. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Do you mean that you see them as less evil now? Yes. If Hamas was as evil as some of you want to believe they would have killed all the hostages. Edited November 28, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Yes. If Hamas was as evil as some of you want to believe they would have killed all the hostages. I don't think anything they are doing is out of goodwill or humanity, the hostages are the most valuable thing they have. They are being forcefully pressured by the IDF. It's a cold calculation so they can prolong the war. Slowly but steadily stories of horrible abuse come from released hostages. Kids were forced to watch the graphic footage of their kibbutz being slaughtered. They got a gun against their head when they cried. The little Irish-Israeli girl who was there all alone thought she had been there for a year, poor soul. The bulk of hostages are still being held including vulnerable people, we have no idea how badly they are getting abused or even if they are still alive. Obviously, Hamas killed a bunch. The worst thing I can imagine is mutilation and rape, they are definitely capable of that too. 31 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said: Why are the Israeli hostages looking so relaxed? They don't seem tortured. People don't know how the psychology of being taken hostage works. And obviously, Hamas is doing propaganda for low-brow people to latch on to. Edited November 28, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Yes. If Hamas was as evil as some of you want to believe they would have killed all the hostages. Maybe but I think they needed the hostages alive to survive because otherwise they would have 100% been eliminated. Now they have at least a chance to make a deal to save themselves and their hold on Gaza. Also some of the hostages were murdered. Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Vrubel said: Kudos to the IDF for fighting so bravely, even with all the technological advantages at the end of the day it all comes down to basic human bravery and strength of spirit. Putting your life on the line in deadly combat in a dense city environment. Can any spoiled Westerner Imagine being 20, having lost family and friends on 7/10, and now fighting Hamas in Gaza. They are amazing. Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 I don't know if it's already been posted. Here is a good video which might help to get some clarity about some strategic goals of hamas in this attack and how it lead to it. @Leo Gura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: Yes. If Hamas was as evil as some of you want to believe they would have killed all the hostages. They do the bare minimum to keep them alive. The hostages who were realesed came back with 5-10 kg less weight (it's a lot for 50 days). It's not like Hamas spoils them there lol. Hamas did execute some hostages (and blamed Israel) we don't know how much of them are still alive. According to the evidence of the hostages who were released, Hamas threatened them with guns to their heads during their period in the captivity, including children. They were forced to whisper and slept on chairs or on the floor. Why Hamas keeps hostages alive? Because they can get more Palestinian prisoners (terrorists) in exchange to living hostages. Hostages who are alive has more value than dead hostages. That's it, there is no compassion or mercy, only interests. Edited November 28, 2023 by Lila9 Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 A video showing the suffering of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons. Why were they refused medical treatment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Lila9 said: They do the bare minimum to keep them alive. The hostages who were realesed came back with 5-10 kg less weight (it's a lot for 50 days). It's not like Hamas spoils them there lol. Hamas did execute some hostages (and blamed Israel) we don't know how much of them are still alive. According to the evidence of the hostages who were released, Hamas threated them with guns to their heads during their period in the captivity, including children. They were forced to whisper and slept on chairs or on the floor. Why Hamas keeps hostages alive? Because they can get more Palestinian prisoners (terrorists) in exchange to living hostages. Hostages who are alive has more value than dead hostages. That's it, there is no compassion or mercy, only interests. It's not like Palestinian prisoners are being treated any better. Look at the video posted above. It's just not what you think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 There are apolitical agendas and goals on both sides. One is using military the other is using terrorist tactics. Nobody is innocent or humanitarian in this. This is a large project on both sides. They want the land. Both sides. One cannot argue who the land really belongs to. But there will be no ceasefire until there are proper peace agreements. It's clear that there is no hero in this war. It's just a war of greed and some people will be sacrificed for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said: A video showing the suffering of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons. Why were they refused medical treatment? I didn't see here anything apart of someone says this. Al Jazeera forced an Israeli mother who her children were kidnapped to say bad things about Israel in the interview when they brought a hamas person to air and did her an ambush. Al jazeera combined maipulatively a picture of an Israeli mother who her children were kidnapped as was a Gazaian citizen overwhelmed by the davastation there. I cannot trust them at all. People in Israel complain all the time how humane the conditions terrorists get in prisons so much so they can even do a degree. Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 @Buck Edwards I am not respecting any false equivalences. 1. Palestinian prisoners are not innocent. 2. Palestinian Prisoners can do university programs and always have access to free healthcare just to name a thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nivsch said: I didn't see here anything like this apart of someone says this. Al Jazeera forced an Israeli mother who her children were kidnapped to say bad things about Israel in the interview when they brought a hamas person to air and did her an ambush. Al jazeera combined maipulatively a picture of an Israeli mother who her children were kidnapped as was a Gazaian citizen overwhelmed by the davastation there. But i thought the jews control media jk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 Just now, Buck Edwards said: It's not like Palestinian prisoners are being treated any better. Look at the video posted above. It's just not what you think. Al Jazeera is direct Hamas' propaganda tool which is loyal to Hamas' narrative only. It has no reliability. For years, Al Jazeera is known as having an anti-Israel, anti American and antisemitic bias. I know that Palestinian prisoners have very decent conditions, including medical care and the freedom of education. It's better to be prisoned by Israel than being an hostage by Hamas. Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Lila9 said: Al Jazeera is direct Hamas' propaganda tool which is loyal to Hamas' narrative only. It has no reliability. For years, Al Jazeera is known as having an anti-Israel, anti American and antisemitic bias. I know that Palestinian prisoners have very decent conditions, including medical care and the freedom of education. It's better to be prisoned by Israel than being an hostage by Hamas. +1 🧡 🎯 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Al jazeera combined maipulatively a picture of an Israeli mother who her children were kidnapped as was a Gazaian citizen overwhelmed by the davastation there. At first it made me laugh, the stupidly rude attempt of including this footage of an Israeli woman in suffer with the goal to imply that this was happed to a Palestinian woman by Israel, and then it made me sad because this is such a cynical usage of the pain Israelies went through (pain the AJ didn't bother to mention at all, still in these days). What also made me sad is that there are people who literally buy into this manipulation and not aware to that. Edited November 28, 2023 by Lila9 Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Yes. If Hamas was as evil as some of you want to believe they would have killed all the hostages. Hamas highest interest is keep their control over Gaza. The Hamas leaders in Qatar are billionaires because of the money they make be exploiting all the Gazens with super high taxes, controlling all transactions, and taking the money from Qatar and UN for their own benefit with the cover of “humanitarian support”. The IDF is taking their control in Gaza and threatening their governance, and the hostages are Hamas’s only cards in the hands. Without the hostages they will completely lose Gaza because the Israelis will have nothing to lose and continue the war until they will completely destroy all Hamas military capabilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 @Leo Gura Please don’t believe aljazera and horrible Hamas supporters. Hamas people are the scum and garbage of humanity. They have nothing to do with human rights or resistance to occupation. They are terrorists, Jew-haters, anti-Semites, who do not care about the lives of the poor residents of Gaza. Their leaders in Qatar are celebrating on the ass of all the poor residents, whose only hope for a good life is to join Hamas and kill Jews and bring "respect" and some money to their family. They have no other option. We absolutely need to eliminate this organization and build better infrastructure and better governance for the poor people of Gaza City. The government in Israel thought for years that strengthening Hamas and building better civil infrastructure for the people of Gaza would prevent them from committing terrorism and the Israelis were wrong. As long as Hamas is in power in Gaza and teaches the citizens to hate Jews this problem will continue. They need other, reasonable leaders who do not teach hatred and try to build something new and better for the people of Gaza. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territories-opts-country-of-concern/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territories-opts-country-of-concern#torture From the UK governments website on Israels use of torture: There are continued allegations by NGOs of mistreatment of Palestinian detainees by the Israeli authorities. Palestinian prisoner Arafat Jaradat died in Israeli custody in February 2013; Israeli authorities denied allegations that his death was a result of torture. The UK has made clear to the Israeli authorities the importance we attach to a full investigation into the circumstances of his death, including the allegations of mistreatment. Whilst noting that acts of torture are criminal under Israeli law, we called at Israel’s UPR for “necessity” to be removed as a possible justification for torture, and for all allegations of torture and ill-treatment to be promptly and effectively investigated, with perpetrators prosecuted. In December, the NGO Public Committee Against Torture in Israel reported that, following arrest, Palestinian child detainees were being held outside in iron cages for hours overnight. Justice Minister Tzipi Livni has publicly confirmed that, on hearing the reports, she immediately instructed the Israeli Prison Service to stop this practice. Further: https://www.omct.org/en/resources/blog/its-now-even-more-official-torture-is-legal-in-israel https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/ Edited November 28, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 28, 2023 Israeli women and children were kept in cages in captivity by Hamas: https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/gaza-news/article-775480 Hostages report hunger in captivity: https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/h1krstgh6 An Israeli boy was forced by Hamas to watch the October 7 gore videos when was in captivity: https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231128-young-french-israeli-hostages-well-but-suffering-psychological-shock-after-captivity Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
