New War In Israel / Gaza

[hundreth]

There's people here literally arguing to move Israel to the United States and some of you are responding to them in good faith 

[Twentyfirst]

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

There's people here literally arguing to move Israel to the United States and some of you are responding to them in good faith 

Let's hear what you have to say since your so smart

Whats the solution? 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, _Archangel_ said:

If they're going to defeat hamas, Israel is going to deal with humanitarian crisis of immense proporsion, that i bet they have literally no idea how to manage,

Agreed.

There's just no clean solution. Either way it will be dirty and nasty.

This is peak politics: where you must choose between only shitty options.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bariumly]

Here's a different social experiment, what we are used to, but it is good that gesture on their part to remind humanity of what is happening in the reality.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

28 minutes ago, zazen said:

I wonder if any commercial interest have got to do with the dedication to take Gaza.I wonder if any commercial interest have got to do with the dedication to take Gaza and expel the Palestinians from it - prime beach front real estate, energy sector, transport canal.

https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

https://www.offshore-technology.com/news/israel-awards-gas-exploration-licences/#:~:text=Israel has awarded 12 licences,are divided into two groups.

The Ben Gurion canal has to go around Gaza which is very costly. If it could cut through the North of Gaza it would save a lot of money and transport time / cost.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/07112023-alternate-suez-canal-the-israeli-ben-gurion-canal-oped/

There should be many interests that we don't know yet. 

Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, 9/11 these attacks were all false flag operations.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

What percentage of total land will Israel get and what percentage will Palestine get?

I don't know. Its not about an agreemt right now but to do good tactic moves. The palestinians were offered countless times to get a state in the west bank and they have always rejected every offer.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[_Archangel_]

@Leo Gura Yes. Too many errors from every side unfortunately.

[Nivsch]

@_Archangel_ This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there.

Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing.

Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time.

Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time.

You want a chance the world will respect you then respect yourself first.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Then we will see whats next.

maybe help them economically to develop, but I suppose that before that there has to be a serious upheaval, something that makes the Palestinians see that it is better to focus on the practical side of life, look to the future, and forget about revenge, although it seems difficult for this to happen

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

maybe help them economically to develop, but I suppose that before that there has to be a serious upheaval, something that makes the Palestinians see that it is better to focus on the practical side of life, look to the future, and forget about revenge, although it seems difficult for this to happen

Agree. Probably only a more stage blue leadership like the more moderate palestinian authority at the beggining.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Loveeee]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein

《  Einstein supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was opposed to the idea of a Jewish state "with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power." According to Marc Elis, Einstein declared himself a human being, a Jew, an opponent of nationalism, and a Zionist; he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but until summer 1947 conceived of this as a bi-national (Jewish and Arab) state, with "continuously functioning, mixed, administrative, economic, and social organizations."  》

[Twentyfirst]

"We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a GREAT ERROR. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind . . . Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they WILL NOT easily step aside."

"…suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to nepotism. They correspond the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes the despicable and dangerous inclination…"

 

-Ahad Ha'am: Founder of Cultural Zionism 

[_Archangel_]

26 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there.

@Nivsch I think it is usually better to negoitiate rather than bombing if you want hostages back.
(not to mention some of them will die in the bombings)

30 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing.

The lesser of two Evils. Iran and Hezbollah benefit from having Hamas there, if they disappear they won't just stay and watch
 

34 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time.

I agree that the Palestinians would be better off Hamas, but i'm afraid the way Israel is dealing with the problem is the worst possible, for reasons i mentioned before.
Israel made the worst mistake by recluding Palestinian in the strip thinking whis would hold problems at bay.
They basically created a safe space for radicalization to spread and Hamas is the result.
The world commmunity should impose their will because everyone in the area has proven incapable of dealing with it.

 

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time.

I'm not confused i meant what i meant. Aid and Crisis are two different things.
The bombings will cause a H. C. because 100's of thousends of pople won't have a home at the of the conflict. And many more will die and get injured.
Not to count the fact that the strip already has little access to drinkable water, electricity and power. And not just beacause of Hamas.

 

[Hsinav]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

This loose standard is probably also a tactic, that sends a clear message to Hezbollah and other groups/states considering involvement.

[Twentyfirst]

11 minutes ago, Hsinav said:

This loose standard is probably also a tactic, that sends a clear message to Hezbollah and other groups/states considering involvement.

The only message they are sending is a reinforced message of how Arabs see Israel. It's confirming what people already think. That Israel is a brutal occupying regime with no thought of Arab life and the only way to negotiate is to fight back. Thats how they will interpret it. You can't beat them into submission

Unless you are Arab you will have no idea just how outraged the Arab and Muslim worldwide community is until it's too late. The leaders that border this will be forced to do something. There are 2 billion muslims in the world 

Just gonna drop this here again https://youtu.be/jjmM__ZSZYk               

Edited November 8, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Agree. Probably only a more stage blue leadership like the more moderate palestinian authority at the beggining.

A proper stage blue society is exactly what the Israeli government fears. If Palestine was as advanced as like for example Iran (economically, infrastructurally, militarily), everything would surge back up. All the fear, all the hate, all the violence that the Palestinians got to know. It doesn't just disappear into nowhere like some magic trick. Conservation of energy. Everything that is being suppressed today will come back up tomorrow. You think Hamas it the problem? Hamas is only a symptom. Remove the infected arm and another arm will be there to strangle you. This won't stop in a day or two. This might not be over in a 100 years. Israel leaders know that. They're not stupid. All they could do so far, without steering up too much chaos, was to suppress and deny the issue. This tactic has run it's course. An actual, strong, stage blue Palestine wouldn't need to send some puny terrorists. They would be capable of going to ACTUAL war.

Edited November 8, 2023 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Hsinav]

24 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The only message they are sending is a reinforced message of how Arabs see Israel. It's confirming what people already think 

Unless you are Arab you will have no idea just how outraged the Arab and Muslim worldwide community is until it's too late. The leaders that border this will be forced to do something. There are 2 billion muslims in the world 

Just gonna drop this here again https://youtu.be/jjmM__ZSZYk               

Where do you think the people living in Israel would be today if they had not had a strong military capability?

[Nivsch]

41 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

A proper stage blue society is exactly what the Israeli government fears. If Palestine was as advanced as like for example Iran (economically, infrastructurally, militarily), everything would surge back up. All the fear, all the hate, all the violence that the Palestinians got to know. It doesn't just disappear into nowhere like some magic trick. Conservation of energy. Everything that is being suppressed today will come back up tomorrow. You think Hamas it the problem? Hamas is only a symptom. Remove the infected arm and another arm will be there to strangle you. This won't stop in a day or two. This might not be over in a 100 years. Israel leaders know that. They're not stupid. All they could do so far, without steering up too much chaos, was to suppress and deny the issue. This tactic has run it's course. An actual, strong, stage blue Palestine wouldn't need to send some puny terrorists. They would be capable of going to ACTUAL war.

I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[Loveeee]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

War has stakes. Those who win wars get land and those who lose wars lose lands. Again, this isn't kindergarten. If Palestinians wanted to keep their land they should have gone to war with the British and blocked them from giving it over to Israel. But that time has long passed.

They've been fighting ever since 

[Loveeee]

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

Israel will do what the West wants it to do

And the West will do what public opinion wants it to do

And public opinion is shifting