About the last Insight post and general critique of Leo

[Leo Gura]

@Forestluv Enough fairy tales, you are supposed to be a respectable scientist!

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Forestluv Enough fairy tales, you are supposed to be a respectable scientist!

Haha, yes. 
Years ago, I was a scientist trying to imagine being a mystic. Now I’m more of a mystic pretending I’m a scientist at work. So far my colleagues haven’t caught on to my act, yet they are vaguely aware something is going on behind the curtain. 

[Someone here]

@Forestluv holy shit dude I can’t  believe my eyes..where have you been hiding ?? 

[Scholar]

24 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I can see how intention and belief could be used to develop a particular SuperNormal ability, yet this is not my area of SuperNormal ability. That type of intention and belief could allow entry into an area, yet would actually be a major block to me and prevent me from entry into the area I describe. 

For example, there is no way I could enter a forest thinking “I believe this is a magical forest and I am a Shaman with SuperNatural powers. If I believe enough, it will manifest”. This won’t work for the space I describe since “Belief” assumes the unreal “appears” to be real because I tricked my mind to “believe” it’s real.  Yet the space I describe is as real as any other real, so the dynamic of belief prevents entry, because a “real vs imagined” dynamic is created. 

Rather, I would enter the forest and allow space for creation - and what arises, arises. If a magical forest appeared and I was a Shaman, thats as real as if I was walking through a “regular” forest with “ordinary” trees, birds, flowers and bees. They are both imaginary as well. 

What I described is not a thinking process. When I say intention and belief, it is beyond a conceptual idea or belief. It is more like, looking at a cloud and seeing a face in it. That's the type of thing we are talking about, it is rooted far deeper.

Yes, it is as real as any other, because that's how realness is constructed. That "belief" is what realness is. You probably are not aware of the R-Mode vs L-Mode distinction, but what you refer to here is the L-Mode type of belief, not the R-Mode type of belief I am referring to.

 

The subtle thing here is that it does not arise from nowhere, much like your dreams dont arise from nowhere. Your perceptive state at the moment of a dream will determine the dream, and in the same way it will determine the trip you had. If you had been in a state of existential terror, you would have seen very different things, and the magical forest might be appeared as something completely different.

 

By imagination you just mean existence. So, it exists, as all things that exist must exist. There is no thing that exists more than any other thing that exists. And, part of L-Mode is a distinction between "actual existence" vs "subjective existence". If fully engaged in R-Mode, this type of distinction is no longer made. In fact, making that distinction can disrupt that state, as you described, in the same way it can disrupt a dream state. Both states are the same brain states.

[Michal__]

Wait till you realize there are ways to input anything into the imagination you explore in higher states and then when you get down to a normal state of consciousness it will still affect your life. 

Imagination consciousness gains are like magickal sprinkles that you can spend on your desire when you learn how to shape it :)))))

I do not know whether the method I use to do that would work for many people though. 

a) lower the amount of thoughts massively you have via Shamatha meditation

b) [thought about the way you want to manipulate reality] * 1000 000 = cloud your mind (won´t tell you how, it is related to affirmations though) 

Combine with intent (learn what is intent via using magick to become better at magick)

= replace all the space you freed via concentration by new ways to shape reality

This will make you extremely tired.

c) raise consciousness via psychedelic = clear your mind & charge the thought mush you created

The thoughts will get fueled, fullfiled and energized

d) continue with b) -> THIS WILL KILL THE WHOLE TRIP in a matter of minutes

e) redose / repeat again as many times as possible

f) week without magick -> the effects in reality will be many, many times stronger than with any magickal working you have done before 

Being able to do a) & b) is why it wont work for most of you ;-)

[FULL, UGLY, NORMAL MIND] -> [EMPTY, ZEN MIND] -> [THOUGHTS ABOUT _ * 1000 000] -> PSYCHEDELIC -> [THOUGHTS ABOUT _ * 1000 000] * INFINITE IMAGINATION -> [NORMAL SOBER MIND, changed by what just happened] -> REPEAT

This is not a theory, I am just describing accurately my new experiences.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Michal__

[Forestluv]

@Scholar I’m not disagreeing with the constructs you’ve created. There is truth and value within those constructs. There is infinite exploration within that structure, yet for me it’s also limiting on other planes of expansion. 
 

My mind is highly fluid, so I don’t resonate with definitions and statements of what is, is. To me, everything you stated of what IS above, is true within that framework. Yet it can also be dissolved, partially or fully. And then re-molded into many different forms. 
 

I’m not saying you are wrong or another view is more right or better. 

This thought below gives strong contrast among mindspaces.

27 minutes ago, Scholar said:

By imagination you just mean existence. 

First, this assumes a knowing of meaning for another. How do you know my meanings of “imagination” and “existence”? I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying it is a contracted mindspace. The idea is followed by a lengthy description of a structure to hold imagination and existence. There seems to be  a lot of insights within that structure. I’d actually like to play around with some of the points you make, yet your descriptions seem very very restrictive. To me, there is a lot of rigid “this is how it is”. It’s brilliant within an area, yet it’s not how my mind works. My mind doesn’t like to dwell within solid constructs. It likes to continually create, de-create and re-create. Being beholden within a mind structure is like being in prison to me. 

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Scholar I’m not disagreeing with the constructs you’ve created. There is truth and value within those constructs. There is infinite exploration within that structure, yet for me it’s also limiting on other planes of expansion. 
 

My mind is highly fluid, so I don’t resonate with definitions and statements of what is, is. To me, everything you stated of what IS above, is true within that framework. Yet it can also be dissolved, partially or fully. And then re-molded into many different forms. 
 

I’m not saying you are wrong or another view is more right or better. 

This thought below gives strong contrast among mindspaces.

First, this assumes a knowing of meaning for another. How do you know my meanings of “imagination” and “existence”? I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying it is a contracted mindspace. The idea is followed by a lengthy description of a structure to hold imagination and existence. There seems to be  a lot of insights within that structure. I’d actually like to play around with some of the points you make, yet your descriptions seem very very restrictive. To me, there is a lot of rigid “this is how it is”. It’s brilliant within an area, yet it’s not how my mind works. My mind doesn’t like to dwell within solid constructs. It likes to continually create, de-create and re-create. Being beholden within a mind structure is like being in prison to me. 

I'm describing a tool Forest, nothing more.

However, rigidly holding onto relativity and non-rigidity is it's own form of rigidity. For example, when it gets in the way of conversations because whenever something is said relativity must be pointed out anew.

[Razard86]

12 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Scholar I’m not disagreeing with the constructs you’ve created. There is truth and value within those constructs. There is infinite exploration within that structure, yet for me it’s also limiting on other planes of expansion. 
 

My mind is highly fluid, so I don’t resonate with definitions and statements of what is, is. To me, everything you stated of what IS above, is true within that framework. Yet it can also be dissolved, partially or fully. And then re-molded into many different forms. 
 

I’m not saying you are wrong or another view is more right or better. 

This thought below gives strong contrast among mindspaces.

First, this assumes a knowing of meaning for another. How do you know my meanings of “imagination” and “existence”? I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying it is a contracted mindspace. The idea is followed by a lengthy description of a structure to hold imagination and existence. There seems to be  a lot of insights within that structure. I’d actually like to play around with some of the points you make, yet your descriptions seem very very restrictive. To me, there is a lot of rigid “this is how it is”. It’s brilliant within an area, yet it’s not how my mind works. My mind doesn’t like to dwell within solid constructs. It likes to continually create, de-create and re-create. Being beholden within a mind structure is like being in prison to me. 

If only they knew that awakening was escaping the prison.....lol.

[Scholar]

26 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

 Being beholden within a mind structure is like being in prison to me. 

This translates to: Being stuck in L-Mode causes me suffering.

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This translates to: Being stuck in L-Mode causes me suffering.

If thats a serious comment, I’m flabbergasted. 

[Scholar]

13 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

If thats a serious comment, I’m flabbergasted. 

As you should be.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

As you should be.

You didn’t fully breakthrough on your last trip. 

If you continue with psychedelics, I’ll be curious to see how a true breakthrough trip unfolds for you. I’m talking about a breakthrough so deep there is no return to dwelling within the previous mind structure. You haven’t gone there yet. And you may choose to never go there. . . There is a price to pay. ? 

[Scholar]

13 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

You didn’t fully breakthrough on your last trip. 

If you continue with psychedelics, I’ll be curious to see how a true breakthrough trip unfolds for you. I’m talking about a breakthrough so deep there is no return to dwelling within the previous mind structure. You haven’t gone there yet. And you may choose to never go there. . . There is a price to pay. ? 

Never is just a temporary arrangement.

[OBEler]

@Forestluv whats the price to pay? 

Had a first full breakthrough recently and it was easy. Felt complete normal after and was carrying on with my normal day

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Forestluv whats the price to pay? 

Had a first full breakthrough recently and it was easy. Felt complete normal after and was carrying on with my normal day

Well he said a breakthrough so deep there is no returning to your previous mind structure.

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, OBEler said:

whats the price to pay? 

Your ideas of what is right and what is wrong.

[BuddhistLover]

I watched the blog post about science and omniscience. The one with the guy from the big conversation. I took a lot of notes on it and definitely can go further with the contemplation and insight from it. The big point that I see it boil down to is that it was a conversation between reality being an infinite singularity with succeeding eons where time is indistinguishable, and the other side said that reality is a reason for causation in mathematical abstract. That's um, what I really got out of the video. There is definitely a lot more that goes into it. Thanks Leo for sharing this information with us. 

[Forestluv]

@Scholar I hope you get another opportunity ? ? 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Forestluv whats the price to pay? 

Had a first full breakthrough recently and it was easy. Felt complete normal after and was carrying on with my normal day

That’s awesome. I’ve had those as well. No entry fee needed? ? 

[Adrian colby]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Have you ever fucked in a dream? It feels totally real.

Last night I had a dream of aliens surgically implanting tracking devices into my arm and leg. It felt so real I woke up freaked out.

The material world is as imaginary as the sleeping world. Just more vivid and stable.

I’ve been experimenting with this a lot recently. Once I got the ‘reality is imagination’ part I started trying to dissolve it while maintaining conscious awareness while sober. Shutting down the bodies sense perceptions and replacing them with those that reform in the minds eye, a completely new world, body and senses appear. No distinction between those and the ones from this world. 

Training focus, concentration meditation helps a lot with this but so does mastering one’s emotions. Too much excitement snaps you back here.

the psychedelics showed how and where to focus, now I can do it sober. Just doesn’t happen that often

what I like about sober travel is that the reality that forms is more stable and coherent. I do get the mandala fractals from time to time and sometimes cartoon like artscapes and I’ve woken up or should I say become aware in the bright white light a few times too. 
 

it’s easier to pop a few mushrooms and let them do the work but I’m getting a great desire to develop the skill sober. 
 

it may have something to do with being able to astral project as a child. It was similar but only ever situated in my bedroom or over the house. I’ve been unable to replicate that as an adult 

I do love when I realize I’m in a less solid world and always… always turn into a dragon ???✨?