But Leo... How is it possible that no other teachers are AWAKE?

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Artem said:

Hello, @Leo Gura!

I can take 1,200ug of LSD and remain perfectly conversational, walk and talk in a normal manner, and my awakening is completely ordinary to me. I will see no hallucinations, have no or very little insight, experience no fear, and even bodily I will feel pretty much the same. There might be some slight discomfort in the beginning, but not much, I will feel quite ordinary the whole time and in 2-3 hours or so the only side effect I will have is slightly dilated pupils. I cannot detect light and medium doses of 5-MeO-DMT at all, all I feel is the taste of it, and a heavy dose is a relaxation experience for me which lasts 2-3 minutes or so. It's the same thing with N,N-DMT - I barely experience anything, even on a relatively high dose, and the "trip", if we could even call it that, only lasts 2-3 minutes. I haven't tried Salvia, but I have no reason to believe that it will "terrify the shit out of me" - it's been a long time since I experienced fear with any psychedelics.

I admire what you're doing, launching yourself into the spiritual journey with abandon, but you need guidance, my friend. I am very sorry to say but you have been spreading a lot of misinformation by generalizing your personal psychedelic experiences to everyone, and continually claiming higher states of consciousness than anyone else. From my perspective, you are not awake at all, and you have no wisdom to share (yet), even though your psychedelic experiences unquestionably brought you some insight.

I see a lot of potential in you, most notably your determination. It is true that in order to become enlightened, one has to have a megalomaniacal level of determination, the desire to know Truth above all else, the willingness to leave it all behind. This is true, and you have it.

But you are at the very beginning of your spiritual transformation, and are making all sorts of mistakes. You have a very strong ego, you desire to be seen as "the most awake human (alien?) of all time". You misunderstand and devalue a lot of authentic teachers, thus doing a disservice to humanity, given the size of your audience.

Please shoot me a message and we'll talk. We can speak privately on video or you could even come visit me. Remember that all authentic masters taught in person, and people who have nothing to hide from themselves don't hide from each other either.

Fuck!! I hadn't read that. man... you are the man. At the end, someone serious here. Almost sure I'm not wrong, let's see

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Yeah, I feel it is all about fully acepting that after death I will dissapear forever which is the idea that I am respressing so hard because it is too terryfing (sometimes it arise during deep sleep and I wake up screaming like crazy), and all that repressing is my ego construction. I am doing hours of that buddhist exhausting meditations everyday and I feel like I am just playing games and it doesnt´do anything. I wanted to do it the "soft way", but it is not working at all...

On an Absolute Level, "You"/Infinite Consciousness will never disappear.

And not even on a relative level, small "you"/separate self/soul still continues to ripen from life to life, the Soul refining its Karma.... Check the works of Jürgen Ziewe for example:

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

https://www.youtube.com/@jurgenziewe9125/videos

This gentleman sounds a bit "New Age", but has credible Enlightenment experience & description in his book the Ten Minute Moment, and has had Out of Body Experiences for decades.

His descriptions of subtle/archetypal realms (those beyond the Astral/Bardo-Levels) are spot on, and also his Enlightenment/Infinite Consciousness descriptions (Causal and Nondual level). It is a fascinating look behind the curtain of the separate-self-(illusion)-arisings (soul) going from life to life, refining its Karma until confirming to Reality/Enlightened Mind.

What can (and will) disappear is the illusion-arising of the separate self, which is "protected" by fear.

But even after Enlightenment, the soul continues its journey on a relative/arising level:

"We can join communities of kindred spirit, cooperate on unimaginable creative projects and can visit any part of Infinity we wish for or are called to. We are the working army of absolute consciousness, the co-workers of God. If you’ve ever wondered where Angels come from, we are the potential Angels. This is how Angels are borne. Emanuel Swedenborg was adamant about it: Angels are no supernatural beings, they were once humans like us."

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Our_Ultimate_Journey_Home.html

Emanuel Swedenborg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg. AWAKENINGS anybody?

And after all the scary stuff has happened, YOU will still remain... Which is great news! And even small/relative you/soul continues to ripen, although as an appearance arising within YOU, Infinite Reality....

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

[RedLine]

16 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

On an Absolute Level, "You"/Infinite Consciousness will never disappear.

And not even on a relative level, small "you"/separate self/soul still continues to ripen from life to life, the Soul refining its Karma.... Check the works of Jürgen Ziewe for example:

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

https://www.youtube.com/@jurgenziewe9125/videos

This gentleman sounds a bit "New Age", but has credible Enlightenment experience & description in his book the Ten Minute Moment, and has had Out of Body Experiences for decades.

His descriptions of subtle/archetypal realms (those beyond the Astral/Bardo-Levels) are spot on, and also his Enlightenment/Infinite Consciousness descriptions (Causal and Nondual level). It is a fascinating look behind the curtain of the separate-self-(illusion)-arisings (soul) going from life to life, refining its Karma until confirming to Reality/Enlightened Mind.

What can (and will) disappear is the illusion-arising of the separate self, which is "protected" by fear.

But even after Enlightenment, the soul continues its journey on a relative/arising level:

"We can join communities of kindred spirit, cooperate on unimaginable creative projects and can visit any part of Infinity we wish for or are called to. We are the working army of absolute consciousness, the co-workers of God. If you’ve ever wondered where Angels come from, we are the potential Angels. This is how Angels are borne. Emanuel Swedenborg was adamant about it: Angels are no supernatural beings, they were once humans like us."

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Our_Ultimate_Journey_Home.html

Emanuel Swedenborg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg. AWAKENINGS anybody?

And after all the scary stuff has happened, YOU will still remain... Which is great news! And even small/relative you/soul continues to ripen, although as an appearance arising within YOU, Infinite Reality....

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

It is not something that I rationally believe. It is something it is deep in my susconscious and involuntarily arise in deep sleep every 6 months or mayby 2 or 3 years. That´s also the source of my pessimism towards life that I carry since I have memory and the source of my maniac impulse to get achievements (including spirituallity) to ran away from death. I also feel that the idea of dissapear after death is the same that the idea of I don´t really exist right now, I am holding my fake self alive trough the creation of mental content all the time , it is hard to expalin. 

Here I explained the night death experience:

btw that night experience was the last I had. I did not have any again. I attribute it to my mind is less clear and entertained with regular life goals and deep existencial material is even  deeper repressed than ever 

Edited July 13, 2023 by RedLine

[Water by the River]

6 minutes ago, RedLine said:

It is not something that I rationally believe. It is something it is deep in my susconscious and involuntarily arise in deep sleep every 6 months or mayby 2 or 3 years. That´s also the source of my pessimism towards life that I carry since I have memory and the source of my maniac impulse to get achievements (including spirituallity) to ran away from death. I also feel that the idea of dissapear after death is the same that the idea of I don´t really exist right now, I am holding my fake self alive trough the creation of mental content all the time , it is hard to expalin. 

Here I explained the night death experience:

btw that night experience was the last I had. I did not have any again. I attribute it to my mind is less clear and entertained with regular life goals and deep existencial material is even  deeper repressed than ever 

Water by the River

 

 

[Salvijus]

@Artem 

@Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, RedLine said:

is not something that I rationally believe. It is something it is deep in my susconscious and involuntarily arise in deep sleep every 6 months or mayby 2 or 3 years. That´s also the source of my pessimism towards life

Just vape 5 meo DMT full dose 10/20 times. in the end, you'll see.

You will wake up in your room with open arms, and you will be the absolute. the door will open, and the unimaginable will manifest. infinite. you. obvious, which has always been. The control is released. Later you will forget it, but your life will have gained another light, another calm, another joy.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

It's the difference between a visionary and a mystic. Ram Dass, when speaking about the difference between himself and Timothy Leary, said that Tim was the former while he was the latter. That always stuck with me.

Great comparison, and it is vividly illustrated in "Being Ram Dass". Both began the spiritual journey with psychedelics. Timothy Leary chose the party bus along the roller coaster of imagination, and Ram Dass realized the limitations of psychedelics and found himself within the solitude of a sangha.

I had thought of psychedelics as a spiritual path, and now he was pulling that conceptual rug out from under me. From the place of oneness where Maharaj-ji sits, psychedelics are just a fragmentary shard of a vastly deeper reality. He showed me they are a limited window, all the while reflecting back to me the deeper place of love within myself…

"These medicines were known in the Kulu Valley long ago," he said, "but yogis have forgotten about them." He said psychedelics could be useful if you took them in a quiet, cold place and your soul was turned toward God. "They allow you to come into the presence of Christ, to have darshan, but you can only stay for two hours."

It was good to visit Christ, Maraj-ji said, but it was better to be Christ. "This medicine won't do that," he continued. "It's not the true samadhi, absorption in God. Love is a much stronger medicine."

- Being Ram Dass

 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Moksha said:

Great comparison, and it is vividly illustrated in "Being Ram Dass". Both began the spiritual journey with psychedelics. Timothy Leary chose the party

21 minutes ago, RedLine said:

 

Leary is not an example of anything, his mystical leanings are entirely superficial. just hedonism, nothing more

[Water by the River]

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Artem 

@Leo Gura

 

.  Sorry.

Selling Water by the River

[Adrian colby]

9 hours ago, Artem said:

 

A healthy mind doesn't dissociate and doesn't produce delirium, only the ego dissociates and produces delirium.

No. I will not be psychologically affected by a bottle of vodka, alcohol does not affect me psychologically. I will only be physically affected.

What you call "human self" I call "ego". Ego is very fragile and malleable, this is true. My mind is not fragile, I understand that yours is, but you don't get to speak for other people.

 

I get what you are saying. I experience more or less in the same way. Substances don’t force me into altered states so I don’t ever get fantasy and colour. What they do is subdue my body so I can do conscious work. The same with alchohol. It doesn’t affect my mind. It just subdues my body and allows my mind to be more free to explore without the distraction of the bodies sensations. I am making a guess but it might be to do with how well you can stop the process of thinking and how good of a command you have over when and how you use the thought process. Like you say, one is the ego and the other is awareness. It depends which one is in control or the master. People who are still identified with their thoughts have no control over them so taking a substance or getting drunk leaves them in a state where their thoughts run rampant, create visualisations or leave them unable to filter what they say or do.

with alchohol I may slur my words because my bodies motor functions are effected but what I say is more coherent than usual because I’ve been able to use it to become a more pure mind than body.

I don’t drink but just got drunk a few times to experiment with my conscious state. It’s similar to psychedelics. I’ve trained my mind to be quiet and focused. No visuals occur unless I deliberately ‘create’ them. Most of my psychedelic experience is black with no visuals but I get my insights in a formless manner. I can go through a whole contemplation without visualising anything but just getting impressions. 

if you do much consciousness work like developing your mind without substance use, I personally find that things like substances and binaural beats etc become a hinderence like they were just training wheels. 
 

I’ve lately found that I can relax enough to switch the body into a sleep while keeping the mind awake but quiet and my reality dissolves into what could best be described as a warm white light experience similar to 5MeO. I’m currently exploring the realities that form beyond that but it takes allot of balance between concentration and absolute calmness. Not easy.

[Bazooka Jesus]

@Moksha

Nice excerpts, thanks for sharing. I love me some Ram Dass.

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Leary is not an example of anything, his mystical leanings are entirely superficial. just hedonism, nothing more

And Ram Dass?

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Moksha said:

They allow you to come into the presence of Christ, to have darshan, but you can only stay for two hours."

Well, that's a total difference. 99.99% of those who try to open up to reality, without psychedelics will never achieve anything. with them, most just glimpses, and perhaps some the full openness full time. but glimpses and total openess for 1 minute, not two hours, is huge compared to nothing

Edited July 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[CARDOZZO]

What do you guys think about Andrew R Gallimore & Terence McKenna?

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Moksha said:

And Ram Dass?

I haven't read ram Dass, just fragments. I guess he's interesting. but something tells me that his opening is limited.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I haven't read ram Dass, just fragments. I guess he's interesting. but something tells me that his opening is limited.

According to him, you're right. The opening he experienced through psychedelics was limited, but once he moved beyond psychedelics, he realized a profoundly deeper connection to truth. The same was observed by Aldous Huxley and others.

You could argue that pyschedelics are more powerful now, but I feel there is an underlying pattern. Psychedelics can show you that reality is not what it seems, but only briefly and then they become a memory. As Ram Dass said, you can become god for 2 hours or perpetually become god. Integration is the most powerful medicine.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

According to him, you're right. The opening he experienced through psychedelics was limited, but once he moved beyond psychedelics, he realized a profoundly deeper connection to truth. The same was observed by Aldous Huxley and others.

You could argue that pyschedelics are more powerful now, but I feel there is an underlying pattern. Psychedelics can show you that reality is not what it seems, but only briefly and then they become a memory. As Ram Dass said, you can become god for 2 hours or perpetually become god. Integration is the most powerful medicine.

Huxley also had a limited opening, with and without psychedelics. there are very few people who have really intended to get to the bottom of psychedelics and who have the intelligence to not get lost along the way. It has to be someone who meets certain conditions, which basically means being born for this. we will see

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

@Artem 

@Leo Gura

KO in 1 round. Leo better throw in the towel before starting and admit that maybe, well, things were not as he thought. but who knows, we'll see

[Moksha]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Huxley also had a limited opening, with and without psychedelics. there are very few people who have really intended to get to the bottom of psychedelics and who have the intelligence to not get lost along the way. It has to be someone who meets certain conditions, which basically means being born for this. we will see

Do you see how this becomes a disprovable hypothesis? Psychedelics must produce the deepest awakenings. If they don't, the psychedelics weren't powerful enough, or the person had incompatible genetics, or they weren't intelligent or sincere enough. There is literally an excuse for every false outcome, therefore the hypothesis becomes meaningless.

The same trap is true for people that claim profound insights on psychedelics. How can you prove they aren't deluded, or outright lying? I provided recent research suggesting that the insights gained on pyschedelics are sometimes demonstrably false, no matter how sincerely the person believes them to be true. Worse, for insights that can't be disproven, how do you know they aren't made up?

I have yet to see a credible example of someone who took psychedelics exclusively and learned to live in lucid peace and love, free from suffering. Instead, I've seen a multitude of examples of people who try the most intense psychedelics for years, and despite claiming increasingly bizarre realizations, never learn to perpetually keep the portal open. Leo certainly hasn't. His realizations are only as good as his next trip, and they constantly change. What does that tell you about the staying power of psychedelics?

[Adrian colby]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All this means is that you have insanely high tolerance and psychdelics do not work with your genetics and metabolism. This does NOT mean that you are somehow more conscious than psychdelics.

I’m not so sure… having watched many people come and go from ceremonies dealing with trauma and ego related issues over and over without resolving anything, I’ve noticed that some people use a substance with the expectation that it is going to fix or heal them (thinking it’s showing them the truth when all they are seeing is a reflection of their own subconscious). They never go away and do the hard work of actually changing their thought process or behaviors. They never bother to stop and observe their own minds or free themselves up from this perpetual victim, self indulged mindset. It’s an endless loop and they never move on. 
 

 Other people who approach substance use as a tool to help observe themselves and how their mind constructs the reality they experience or who are actively ‘seeking’ and discovering the nature of reality, deconstructing reality and getting to know how consciousness works prior to ever taking a substance… of course their ‘traumas’ do arise and they have to deal with them but they seem to get over that phase much quicker and go on to more coherent consciousness exploration ( more possibility opens up including deeper insights and I’m aware you know all of this as you approached it in the same way as part of a toolset for an already existing search for absolute truth). People like this often don’t have bad trips or extremely few( difficult or intense as opposed to terrifying). They are often fairly good at silencing their minds, they often don’t get visuals rather get formless impressions that fuel their insights and spend a lot of time contemplating and integrating and observing daily activities in the same manner.

I don’t think @artems disposition is related to genetics as he’s previously said he’s had psychedelic experiences that are just the same as everyone else’s in the beginning but that there has been a point at which it has changed. I would have been the same so it’s not genetic.

Tolerance? I would have thought that to build up a tolerance to substances, I would have had to use them either fairly regularly or over a long period of time. I’ve had the usual ‘trip’ that anyone else would have in the beginning but there was a point that it changed for me too. The dose doesn’t seem to matter whether it is high or low. And the type of substance no longer matters either. They all can be used to induce the same experiences. As time has gone on I’ve become more sensitive with smaller doses not less sensitive. I’ve also started having those experiences without substances and during a long period of time where I haven’t taken anything in over a year so it’s unlikely it’s a reactivation. I can be in an intense immersive experience surrounded by chaos and colour/ fractals or I can focus my mind and bring myself back into the room as if sober just like @artem described. It doesn’t mean we are more conscious than psychedelics. It means that consciousness has the ability to do that when it is not so rigidly bound within its mind ( or beliefs) and has a better command over itself( more focused).  Eventually reality begins to resemble the trip and insights come directly from observing it. it is, after all consciousness communicating with itself. Everything becomes a metaphor for its own understanding within its own hall of mirrors.

dissolving reality ( the relative) and exploring other realities ( albeit less finite) is something I’ve taken interest in recently. It’s not something that I would have perused because I didn’t believe in it. However, after coming face to face with what consciousness was and was capable of (with the help of psychedelics) I decided not to dismiss it until I had experimented with the possibility and it eventually happened. It wasn’t what people had described it to be but I had finally experienced it from start to finish without loosing consciousness and understood it from direct experience. Doing it without a substance is not easy at all and often very frustrating but it’s something I want to pursue now that I know it is possible.

I maybe mistaken in what @ Artem is saying or even what you’re saying but from what I’m reading of his experiences, I’m finding similarity with my own. I wouldn’t dismiss it, I’d explore it further.