Why is niceness such a turn off

[StarStruck]

9 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

nice is using society's playbook to interact, hey good to see you have a great day k

you win no enemies you win no friends

you may well be promoted you may well be president you may well be psychopathic

in fact nice is a social skill everyone needs and uses

problem is when you only know to be nice

this would be the unlived life

Wow. I never looked at it from that way. 

Nice = being socially calibrated 

But calibration should be done on truth and authenticity, and not on fear to not fit in or to get something. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by StarStruck

[Butters]

I still find this topic absolutely fascinating and I have some new insights. 

Being overly invested in an interaction or nice shows you may have empathy problems or you're just very weak. If someone doesn't want to communicate on that level, an empathetic person will instantly adjust to the other person's level of comfort. A true leader communicates that way, with empathy and calibration. 

Having a strong frame like that allows you to instantly adjust to social situations if needed. 

I addition to that, when you seem a little too happy this person is giving you their time and attention it's creepy. That's the frame the girl should be in, not the guy. 

In a survival environment you wouldn't be nice to anyone you don't know unless you're trying to manipulate. If you're friendly and nice to guys in prison you'll get fucked. 

I almost got fucked last week by a guy who looked like a psychopath ex con at my fighting gym because I talked to him under the shower and he thought it was me flirting with him or something. Thankfully I'm a self actualized motehrfuxker with a very strong frame but most guys would have gotten scared right there. I guess the lesson for me is also to keep my boxers on in the gyms shower and not talk to dudes in the shower but I was just being nice and spontaneous. 

In a survival environment niceness is weak, and showing signs of weakness is probably the most unattractive thing in the world to a woman. 

Also when dudes talk to each other it should just be a real conversation about stuff with mutual respect. I've had dudes talk to me being overly smiling and it makes me super uncomfortable. It's completely unnecessary behavior and is always because of fear, no exception. 

Also niceness has nothing to do with flirting. Imagine you're a girl and you're just nice to a guy who is nice back and all of a sudden he wants to fuck you. Eww!

[Yimpa]

@Butters Nice. Reminds me of this Teal Swan video I saw a few days ago. I felt uncomfortable listening to it (as if she was insulting me), but I listened as objectively as I could anyway. I’m glad that I did, because it ultimately elevated the perspective on how I communicate with others.

 

[StarStruck]

These are my latest insights on the topic. Being nice is such a buzz word. 

Being nice is being socially calibrated. It about being depolarizing.
 

The cost of being too nice is that you sacrifice too much of your authenticity. Or in other words sacrificing authenticity to be depolarizing. 

In social skills you need

• 80% authenticity (polarizing)
• 20% social calibration, being nice (depolarizing) 

With nice guys it is the other way around.  They calibrate too much. There are also guys who suck both at social calibration and authenticity but that is a different topic.

If you are a regular non autistic nice guy you need to learn to let go f the fear to be disliked and be polarizing. It is better to have good friends and good enemies than having no friends and no enemies. 

[Butters]

43 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Butters Nice. Reminds me of this Teal Swan video I saw a few days ago. I felt uncomfortable listening to it (as if she was insulting me), but I listened as objectively as I could anyway. I’m glad that I did, because it ultimately elevated the perspective on how I communicate with others.

 

Holy shit is she on point. The behavior within a relationship that she describes reminds me of my dad who is an extreme example of that niceness, victim of everything "look I'm just an innocent child-like man, don't hurt me", ugh disgusting! It really fucked me up and I didn't realize his covert narcicism until later in life. 

I still get people sometimes looking at me like I'm some asshole for breaking contact with my dad, who they view as this poor old nice man.

Imagine the damage that does to a kid; always viewed as an aggressor to his poor defenseless father. Imagine someone making your fucking blood boil with their weakness day in day out and the moment you wanna snap at the you're the unreasonable one. Happened to my mom and to me. 

She is so on point in her video it's amazing. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Butters

[Leo Gura]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:19 PM, Hardkill said:

So then why isn't having a muscular physique and combat skills enough to become socially successful with people and get laid with any kind of woman you want?

Because brains beat muscles.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEe2aq3qKmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9j4kfv-pMw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMTKZW7lQJc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlJLLjE9_To

https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-nice-guys-finish-last

[itsadistraction]

On 08/07/2023 at 4:28 PM, StarStruck said:

I’m just a nice person. I can’t help it but only people who are nice themselves appreciate it. Personally I think a person should have both the quality of niceness and the opposite of it. Some people are repulsed by niceness because they see it as weakness. 

I’m starting to integrate the opposite of niceness to become whole. If I don’t want to dance with somebody I will just say no without making excuses. Or when I feel like putting somebody in their place I will just do it.

Being a nice guy is just an identity you build and if it is working for you you should keep it but it if don’t that identity needs to die for a new one to arise. 

Now I think about it niceness is not that bad. If you are traumatized and you are nice to compensate that is what really disgusts people. Now I think about it I get why people are repulsed by it. It is a very unpleasant vibe.

Teal Swan does a good job explaining why it's such a turn off...

https://youtu.be/KMDmry4BXPQ?si=hDoJyU7yI6aEbxby

Edited September 29, 2023 by itsadistraction

[Hardkill]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because brains beat muscles.

Yet, you say that girls are attracted to dumb guys. Not the nerds with brains.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Yet, you say that girls are attracted to dumb guys. Not the nerds with brains.

They are attracted to social position and leadership.

[Hardkill]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are attracted to social position and leadership.

Like a head manager in a business or a CEO at a job?

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Like the captain of the football team.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Like the captain of the football team.

They’re primarily attracted to high status behavior cues, not his actual status.

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Raze said:

They’re primarily attracted to high status behavior cues, not his actual status.

That's like saying a fish is primarily attracted to a lure.

[RawJudah]

It really sucks being a ‘’nice guy’. Women aren’t attracted to it, you get trampled on, you’re probably boring, you might be intelligent but it doesn’t really matter, you probably care about health but that doesn’t matter too much.

It sucks because to actually get good with girls you have to become a complete asshole in order to get good with them. 

I was a piece of shit in my teens and early 20s but I had to grow out of that because being a piece of shit wasn’t helping me anymore, but I had girlfriends back then and now I’m single but I’m ok with it (I think)

Like Leo has said - it’s completely the opposite of what you’d think attracts women! Such a mindfuck!

[Butters]

16 minutes ago, RawJudah said:

It really sucks being a ‘’nice guy’. Women aren’t attracted to it, you get trampled on, you’re probably boring, you might be intelligent but it doesn’t really matter, you probably care about health but that doesn’t matter too much.

It sucks because to actually get good with girls you have to become a complete asshole in order to get good with them. 

I was a piece of shit in my teens and early 20s but I had to grow out of that because being a piece of shit wasn’t helping me anymore, but I had girlfriends back then and now I’m single but I’m ok with it (I think)

Like Leo has said - it’s completely the opposite of what you’d think attracts women! Such a mindfuck!

What's your definition of asshole? 

If it's non-reactive, not caring what others think of you and having a strong frame then yes, but why is that being an asshole? 

To me "asshole" sounds like some dumb guy who's irl trolling people or something. 

Being nice (not to be confused with being kind) isn't very social behavior imo. You walk around all nice and spiritual that's anti social. Trust me I'm guilty of that myself sometimes, that's why I gotta keep doing my martial arts. 

Being genuine and authentic is closer to truth, being nice is pandering to others, is farther from truth. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Butters

[RawJudah]

8 minutes ago, Butters said:

What's your definition of asshole? 

If it's non-reactive, not caring what others think of you and having a strong frame then yes, but why is that being an asshole? 

To me "asshole" sounds like some dumb guy who's irl trolling people or something. 

Being nice (not to be confused with being kind) isn't very social behavior imo. You walk around all nice and spiritual that's anti social. Trust me I'm guilty of that myself sometimes, that's why I gotta keep doing my martial arts. 

Being genuine and authentic is closer to truth, being nice is pandering to others, is farther from truth. 

By asshole I mean a confident guy that has humour and thinks he’s the shit. This is what men respect, this is what women get wet over

To me, frame just means you’re an awesome guy that everyone likes, has something he’s really in to, has a passion for something, especially if it’s a cool thing.
 

I swear, the more you focus on getting good with women the worse it gets, you constantly focus on getting good with women and you forget about the rest of your life. This is why you do all this when you’re young and dumb. 
 

I know men that are good with women but it’s natural to them, they never have to think about it or put much effort in to it, and they don’t have a clue what Pick-up is or need to go on a massive journey to get good with women. 
 

In fact, most men never have to go through the ‘pick-up phase’ because it’s fucking weird. Over here in the UK approaching 4000 women on the streets or in bars is fucking weird. 

[Butters]

3 hours ago, RawJudah said:

By asshole I mean a confident guy that has humour and thinks he’s the shit. This is what men respect, this is what women get wet over

To me, frame just means you’re an awesome guy that everyone likes, has something he’s really in to, has a passion for something, especially if it’s a cool thing.
 

I swear, the more you focus on getting good with women the worse it gets, you constantly focus on getting good with women and you forget about the rest of your life. This is why you do all this when you’re young and dumb. 
 

I know men that are good with women but it’s natural to them, they never have to think about it or put much effort in to it, and they don’t have a clue what Pick-up is or need to go on a massive journey to get good with women. 
 

In fact, most men never have to go through the ‘pick-up phase’ because it’s fucking weird. Over here in the UK approaching 4000 women on the streets or in bars is fucking weird. 

I see what you're saying, maybe that's why Leo started calling us Buddhist rats on here. 

[RawJudah]

7 minutes ago, Butters said:

I see what you're saying, maybe that's why Leo started calling us Buddhist rats on here. 

Buddhist rats? What does he mean by that?

[Raze]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's like saying a fish is primarily attracted to a lure.

Not necessarily, you can be high status in reality but behave low status and vice versa.