[lol] It's so obvious that humans are carnivores.

[Israfil]

16 hours ago, M A J I said:

There are tribes found around the world people only eating 1 to 2 fruit meals a day living average 200 - 300+ years life spans.

 

Can you name a few of these?

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever. It is certainly not healthy. Of course that doesn't mean some amount of meat is bad for health. But all-meat is not the proper diet for a human. These social media influencers are selling you fantasies, both meat-eaters and vegans. Balance in your diet is key.

I've actually been wondering about how it affected your blood work. Sometimes the blood work at 3 months on a particular diet style isn't nearly as useful as that at 1+ year, because a few months is just not enough time for blood work to seriously change. Definitely expected for all-meat to worsen blood work at 1 year. What was affected the most? Triglycerides and HDL? Triglycerides and VLDL?

It sounds like all-meat is just the least worst option for some like you and JBP, but I wonder if you can mitigate its negative effects with vegetables or healthy carbohydrates that don't irritate your system, or with EPA and DHA at a sufficient amount and optimal ratio. Especially if triglycerides have worsened, 2g EPA + 900mg DHA (or at least 600mg EPA + 300mg DHA) daily might help a few things. And exercise, and perhaps limiting fat intake.

Edited April 18, 2023 by The0Self

[Thought Art]

Obvious we are not Carnivores because we simply aren’t?

[Jannes]

On 17.4.2023 at 10:16 PM, Schizophonia said:

It's about eating what's natural and actually makes you happy.

Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future. 

Quote

Meat/animal fat, fruits, honey, raw dairy products, low-fiber leafy vegetables, possibly nuts (more like a paleo/primal diet after all, carnivore is a misnomer)

Lol how are bred fruits, regular large amounts of honey, dairy, leafy vegetables yes but low fiber natural? I don't say it's wrong to eat that but it doesn't really fit into a primal diet imo. If you want to be really primal I would integrate roots, high-fiber leafy vegetables and fruits, insects..

Quote

Keto is also a mental illness like veganism, they forbid themselves to eat delicious fruits and force themselves to eat filthy goitrogenic green leaves. It's rubbish and based on flawed macronutrient reasoning.

Keto people eat little fruit and carbs in general to stay in ketosis. 

Do you have a scientific answer why a "meat heavy paleo diet" is good? Because how you would apply it it wouldn't bring you in ketosis and so I wonder where the big difference in how you feel comes from..?

Edited April 18, 2023 by Jannes

[undeather]

[M A J I]

5 hours ago, Israfil said:

Can you name a few of these?

Most cases of true longevity beyond what the western news/media tell us I found in the book Mans Higher Consciousness by Hilton Hotema, from there are the links and articles of the finds of each case. The book is in my mothers place so I don't have access to it right now but you can try google a pdf.
 

[M A J I]

I personally have tried every diet known to man, nothing makes me feel healthier and more energized, alive, clear, conscious, than predominantly (organic) fruit-based. Anything close to the "fasting state" is the ideal state of consciousness. When I fast (unless you have mucus/toxins) which 99.9% of people do, you will feel a energy unlike anything else food can ever do for you, besides some extra energy and stimulation, fruit is closest thing.

I've been on the mastery and perfection of the human body/mind path for 10 + years, It is quite clear too me now, not only makes sense to my consciousness/intelligence, it is evident in my direct experience itself.

Now most people would probably feel like shit for the first few days or weeks, if they only eat fruit and fast because the decades of poisons and toxins in ones body from the wrong foods and more especially.. wrong environment, extremely polluted air and artificial (radiated) atmosphere, opposite from the mountainous/tropical regions that would be ideal for the human being. And so usually what happens when you do this, is a very rapid release, cleansing and flushing of these toxins, parasites, old-waste matter ect... This usually can take several months to several years to complete, depending on how you do it.

So its a (transition) and you must (honour) where you are at each and every moment, because food is habitual, no different than drugs, so we must slowly wean off the denser vibratory foods, and consume less and less as we incorporate more and more lighter and lesser foods.

Then Ideal would be to not eat at all, The Air is primary, water and everything else is secondary, but that's an entirely different conversation on its own and our environments are too polluted and artificial for that now, most of them at least.

Many people fail because they try to do everything overnight, I personally was one of the few people who could do it, as it made total sense to me that we are more herbivore/frugivore by natural design, but overtime I did experiment and go back and forth to give all types of food/diets a chance.

And there are some who can do it just like that and feel amazing straight and never go back. I experienced this back in 2010 and I was able to transmute effectively because I was already in a very high vibratory state because of my meditations and focus on love and ascension, but most will have to deal with the (shit/shadows) they put into their bodies all their lives before they can get to the light, it is only natural process, which I discovered later on in my experiments and life-experience. There is really no escaping the dark, one way or another.

Fruit & Fasting clears things up from the inside out so (things will be brought up to the surface) whether it be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual ect... this is why people prefer carnivore, or denser foods, its more comforting and helps numb the pain and emotions and not have to deal with them as intensely, and this is why many vegans today who make the switch too rapidly for their consciousness, experience something like trauma/ego backlash, health issues ect.. and revert back to animal products as they did not know or were properly educated for the (transitionary process) which again can take years, and you must honour that and be respectful and patient with your body that you unconsciously abused all your life with wrong and fake foods, especially processed/supermarket foods.

Those junk foods are full of chemicals and way worse than meat alone, our body actually thrives in simplicity and closer to nature. This is why carnivore only, or potatoes only, or fruit only, or type type of food works very well, because it gives the body a break. The body is not designed to process 150 different flavors, herbs and spices as you would say a typical Indian curry, the body will actually process a simple steak much better, in most cases.

We evolved gathering fruit and stumbling across a tree and consuming that until it was done, and later in the darker ages, as consciousness dropped, meat and hunting an animals came around, but it was always (simple) few foods at most a day. Today people have a toxic amount of variety and consume so many different foods a day and no wonder why their bodies and minds and emotions are a mess and have all types of allergies and diseases. The further from nature the food is, the more chaos and disruption you put into the body and the more challenging it will become to completely transmute it.

Another great book is: Mucusless Diet Healing System by Professor Arnold Ehret

This is another good read https://flowhealingarts.org/news/2016/8/23/flow-cleansing-strategies

Hope this helps

 

[Recursoinominado]

After veganism, raw foods, frugivorism, vegetarianism, onivorism and seeing my health decline steadly, i got desperate enough to try other options, found out about this carnivore diet thing (different from keto, which i have experience with). So i tried a few days but not strict since i ate some fruits and some seeds BUT...

Initial results are promising, feeling MUCH better overall, the best thing i have tried for my health in years.

My mood got better, mental clarity, energy, way less pain/joint pain, teeth are stronger etc.

And i didn't even went full carnivore and also ate some dairy and whey protein (not good for me).

BUT, i probably will cycle with some fruit and green juices doing periods of each but not mixing it, i found that monomeals are better for me.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Recursoinominado

[M A J I]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

After veganism, raw foods, frugivorism, vegetarianism, onivorism and seeing my health decline steadly, i got desperate enough to try other options, found out about this carnivore diet thing (different from keto, which i have experience with). So i tried a few days but not strict since i ate some fruits and some seeds BUT...

Initial results are promising, feeling MUCH better overall, the best thing i have tried for my health in years.

My mood got better, mental clarity, energy, way less pain/joint pain, teeth are stronger etc.

And i didn't even went full carnivore and also ate some dairy and whey protein (not good for me).

BUT, i probably will cycle with some fruit and green juices doing periods of each but not mixing it, i found that monomeals are better for me.

Yes I agree with mono-meals is best. If you eat one type of fruit or vegetable or meat you will feel better than multiple types of any kind. Our bodies thrive when we (keep it simple). This is where you are at and its working for you based on your lifestyle and environment. I still wouldn't say the human body is designed for meat, it has simply adapted to it from many years of infusion and immersion of the animal-consciousness, so for many people, animal-products may still need to be consumed from time to time as far as the DNA sequence goes, for others it may be no-longer required that goes hand in hand with their life experience.

I have found lifestyle & environment plays a large role in what types of density of foods we require. For example when I am in the city at my mums place, its very dense energy, poor air, a lot of electronics, I need more nuts, seeds and fats, sometimes even potatoes or tofu or even eggs, to help ground my energy(this could also be a belief), but I notice when I am in the country or forest or mountains, I can far more easily life off fruit(where I feel best and most alive) and I actually eat much less because I am nourished by the energy of the forest/mountain, nature, sunlight, high quality air and cosmic rays ect...

This video very helpful for this subject similar to your experience you have shared.

He also speaks deeply into how our "programming and belief systems" directly effect how we process life and I have come to the same conclusions. The Importance of doing what "feels" right for you in each moment ? Namaste ~

Edited April 19, 2023 by M A J I

[Recursoinominado]

I am living in a very high vibe place surrounded by nature lol

My previous plans was to be eventually strict fugivore or something like that but that was my being dogmatic about what I thought would be good.

Lots of stage green here, low consumption of meat and animal products, to the point I feel weirdly judged buying and eating meat BUT that's definetly what my body needed.

The inner conflict is real. I don't want to contribute to animal suffering but I will not sacrifice my health for it, this is for sure.

Time to embrace my shadow.

[Schizophonia]

17 hours ago, zurew said:

@Schizophonia So TLDR: you have nothing tangible, other than a handful of testimonials.

Adversarial reversal, do YOU have tangible proof?
The primal/paleo diet (carnivore was a provocative misnomer, call such a diet what you will) is amazing to me and many others.
The more I eat like this, the better my cognition, the better my poo, the stronger I am in the gym etc etc.
And obviously the taste is much better than a vegan diet, while being really satisfying in terms of appetite.

Troll/provocation aside, I've shared and suggested checking out the story of other people on even stricter diets than me who don't have health issues including artherosclerosis (despite high LDL), while recalling that, here again, carnivore is a vague and provocative term to agree on a diet based on animal products.

And you ? What do you have apart from generally epidemiological studies.
For the 10th time, regardless of the quality of the studies and the fact that we can be interested in them, they are impersonal and manipulable.
You absolutely want a study?
giveaway: https://www.dovepress.com/total-meat-intake-is-associated-with-life-expectancy-a-cross-sectional-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IJGM

17 hours ago, zurew said:

"Don't bother looking at the studies dude, just look for people that are agreeing with you on the subject, and that way you can be sure and confident that you are right (btw guys, I am not biased, and I am not ideogically driven, even though most of my posts only consist of bashing other diets, rather than actually making a strong case for why the carnivore diet is the best)" 

ditto + and yes I cover the vegan diet, both because it's the elephant in the room when we talk about a carnivorous diet and because I suffered from it

17 hours ago, zurew said:

No one said that anyone needs to obey anyone, and we are not really talking about one authority on a subject that you need to believe blindly (although, unironically, so far your case only consist of one person, who is undeniably biased on this topic). What a reasonable person would do, is to look for the overall body of evidence, what we have on a certain topic, and not jump to conclusions immediatelly and not making strong and confident claims about things that are not verified yet. 

I don't know exactly why I said that and I can't find the original message, it may have been deleted. I think it was a question of accusing me of having a marginal position. Yes I have a marginal position, you too in another context, so don't accuse me (you or anyone else) of that.

17 hours ago, zurew said:

Sorry, that im not convinced by you showing one person, who is clearly a marketer of this topic.

You lie, you are a liar.
I talked about myself, then I took the example of two people that many people know, and then I insisted on checking another example. Do you understand that I don't have to ctrl+c and crtl+v all that I can/have been able to see on this kind of diets?

17 hours ago, zurew said:

The title of this thread and your posts overall speaks volumes on what kind of epistemic process you have. You think that having a handful of testimonials is a strong enough evidence for you to completely change your diet and to even tell others that they should follow you. You seem to be very biased and unironically very ideologically driven (its blatantly obvious from your first post, where most of your posts only consis of bashing other diets rather than actually building a strong case for the carnivore diet.

 

Ok

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I love fruits. Love the taste, low how healthy they are, and I feel good when my diet is rich in fibre.  Fruits are to me what butter is to you.

Yes, I too like fruit to a certain extent. There is no opposition between fruit and butter.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

My gut can handle 100 grams of fibre per day without consequences.  

much better for you

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

And yes to your point, barley porridge on its own is a bit dull, but does that mean the food itself is automatically unhealthy?.....I don't really like this argument of "people need fruit with food otherwise, it tastes blend"

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that there's an evolutionary reason why the palate likes certain things and doesn't. And "a bit boring" is an understatement, you know that as much as I do, Michael 

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Why not combine foods to make them more palatable if you can? What's wrong with that? Most people already suffer enough, have tremendous amounts of burdens, raising kids, paying bills in a double-digit inflation, doing shit jobs they hate, stressors and anxieties in their life, and can't make their food palatable without being guilted by freaks on the internet? Life comes in balance. Nothing good ever comes of extremes

That's like saying it's okay for people to drink their urine, because you can enjoy it by adding maple syrup to it. And again I don't want to force anyone to do anything, it's the complete opposite of my point.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Because they are highly educated, highly privileged, white males living in the richest regions of the world, wealthy and EXTREMELY biased sample.

They are not the regular Joe or regular Jane with zero health knowledge who cannot just navigate all the pitfalls. 

I have seen the way people with low nutritional knowledge do keto or carnivore. They eat fucking salamis with mayonnaise and fried eggs and reject fruits and vegetables. They think they are doing what Paul is doing when he loads his steak with a pound of vegetables. They are not. Most people who attempt these diets end up with high LDL and high blood pressure. 

This is my main grievance that these clowns have complete disregard for how people misunderstand their advice, and all they hear is "red meat is good". Go on nutrition Twitter and actually look up the examples of young carnivores having their bypasses, colonic polyps found on colonoscopy in their early 40s. It is not worth it, the diet is too risky, there are too many unknown variables. 

True, but you can say that about any way you eat. It is for this exact reason that I do not have a diet and that I just eat/promote foods that are natural and that I like.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

 

People do not differentiate between processed and unprocessed. They cannot tell what fats are saturated and which are not. They don't understand fibre, they don't understand the importance of microbiota.

Fiber doesn't mean much. There are a large number of different fibers, with different sizes and structures, soluble in water or not...

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

They remember the things that are most exciting - "vegans are wrong, and meat is good" and they go on a crusade (kinda like what you did above) with 2% of the big picture understanding, completely ignorant of the fact that their picture is missing 98% of the clarity. And when someone tries to educate them, someone with PhD let's say, they are dismissed as "epidemiology fanatics" - it is a freaking clownshow. 

I will answer whoever accused me of dunning kruger below, the accusation is basically the same

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

All carnivores have problems which is why they become carnivores in the first place.

No

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Do you think it is normal that people cannot digest fibre even thou humans have been eating high-fibre diets pretty much since the times of ancient Egypt and the Roman Empire, way before that even. 

Why should we eat like these? And especially :

-They weren't vegan and couldn't be vegan anyway.

-They didn't eat "kale with sweet potatoes and beans", if they ate fibrous things they were well prepared (long soaks, cooking, fermenting) and usually eaten with fat for taste and digestion. You have to see the bean-based recipes that date back to antiquity, these things were literally swimming in olive oil ah ah.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

It's just that it is human nature to become a crusader and ideologist which is how this nonsense spreads. 

I'm not crusading against anyone, I don't care.
Worst case consider me a troll.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

To be honest, I would rather get SIBO than colorectal cancer if those were my two choices. 

It is not because you eat meat that you will have colorectal cancer, it is not because you eat a lot of fiber that you will have sibo.
Besides, I'm not saying that humans are big eaters of red meat, it seems pretty clear that humans evolved around the consumption of white meat from small mammals, fish and shellfish.
Ah and second lmao gift: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(18)31176-0.pdf
It's on rats, so do what you want.

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future. 

"Should" according to what criteria?

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Lol how are bred fruits, regular large amounts of honey, dairy, leafy vegetables yes but low fiber natural? I don't say it's wrong to eat that but it doesn't really fit into a primal diet imo. If you want to be really primal I would integrate roots, high-fiber leafy vegetables and fruits, insects..

"Paleo" includes all hominids before the mastery of agriculture pr homo sapiens
Just because Homo erectus ate beetles and tender roots doesn't mean it's an attractive and favorable diet for modern man.

As for fruit: https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
You can also watch any documentary on hunter-gatherer tribes and you will see that they consume fruits and honey, sometimes fatty fruits (coconuts, avocados, palm fruits...)

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Keto people eat little fruit and carbs in general to stay in ketosis. 

yes

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Do you have a scientific answer why a "meat heavy paleo diet" is good? Because how you would apply it it wouldn't bring you in ketosis and so I wonder where the big difference in how you feel comes from..?

The whole point of my topic is to troll a little by making a statement based on very basic things, and by extension showing that it works on various people. We could fight over a "more perched" debate on a certain number of studies, but that would be long and uninteresting.

If you want my opinion on such and such a study I can tell you, possibly.

13 hours ago, undeather said:

All right 

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, M A J I said:

I personally have tried every diet known to man, nothing makes me feel healthier and more energized, alive, clear, conscious, than predominantly (organic) fruit-based. Anything close to the "fasting state" is the ideal state of consciousness. When I fast (unless you have mucus/toxins) which 99.9% of people do, you will feel a energy unlike anything else food can ever do for you, besides some extra energy and stimulation, fruit is closest thing.

I've been on the mastery and perfection of the human body/mind path for 10 + years, It is quite clear too me now, not only makes sense to my consciousness/intelligence, it is evident in my direct experience itself.

Now most people would probably feel like shit for the first few days or weeks, if they only eat fruit and fast because the decades of poisons and toxins in ones body from the wrong foods and more especially.. wrong environment, extremely polluted air and artificial (radiated) atmosphere, opposite from the mountainous/tropical regions that would be ideal for the human being. And so usually what happens when you do this, is a very rapid release, cleansing and flushing of these toxins, parasites, old-waste matter ect... This usually can take several months to several years to complete, depending on how you do it.

So its a (transition) and you must (honour) where you are at each and every moment, because food is habitual, no different than drugs, so we must slowly wean off the denser vibratory foods, and consume less and less as we incorporate more and more lighter and lesser foods.

Then Ideal would be to not eat at all, The Air is primary, water and everything else is secondary, but that's an entirely different conversation on its own and our environments are too polluted and artificial for that now, most of them at least.

Many people fail because they try to do everything overnight, I personally was one of the few people who could do it, as it made total sense to me that we are more herbivore/frugivore by natural design, but overtime I did experiment and go back and forth to give all types of food/diets a chance.

And there are some who can do it just like that and feel amazing straight and never go back. I experienced this back in 2010 and I was able to transmute effectively because I was already in a very high vibratory state because of my meditations and focus on love and ascension, but most will have to deal with the (shit/shadows) they put into their bodies all their lives before they can get to the light, it is only natural process, which I discovered later on in my experiments and life-experience. There is really no escaping the dark, one way or another.

Fruit & Fasting clears things up from the inside out so (things will be brought up to the surface) whether it be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual ect... this is why people prefer carnivore, or denser foods, its more comforting and helps numb the pain and emotions and not have to deal with them as intensely, and this is why many vegans today who make the switch too rapidly for their consciousness, experience something like trauma/ego backlash, health issues ect.. and revert back to animal products as they did not know or were properly educated for the (transitionary process) which again can take years, and you must honour that and be respectful and patient with your body that you unconsciously abused all your life with wrong and fake foods, especially processed/supermarket foods.

Those junk foods are full of chemicals and way worse than meat alone, our body actually thrives in simplicity and closer to nature. This is why carnivore only, or potatoes only, or fruit only, or type type of food works very well, because it gives the body a break. The body is not designed to process 150 different flavors, herbs and spices as you would say a typical Indian curry, the body will actually process a simple steak much better, in most cases.

We evolved gathering fruit and stumbling across a tree and consuming that until it was done, and later in the darker ages, as consciousness dropped, meat and hunting an animals came around, but it was always (simple) few foods at most a day. Today people have a toxic amount of variety and consume so many different foods a day and no wonder why their bodies and minds and emotions are a mess and have all types of allergies and diseases. The further from nature the food is, the more chaos and disruption you put into the body and the more challenging it will become to completely transmute it.

Another great book is: Mucusless Diet Healing System by Professor Arnold Ehret

This is another good read https://flowhealingarts.org/news/2016/8/23/flow-cleansing-strategies

Hope this helps

 

I will take the time to respond to your messages later.

[Jannes]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Should" according to what criteria?

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Paleo" includes all hominids before the mastery of agriculture pr homo sapiens
Just because Homo erectus ate beetles and tender roots doesn't mean it's an attractive and favorable diet for modern man.

As for fruit: https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
You can also watch any documentary on hunter-gatherer tribes and you will see that they consume fruits and honey, sometimes fatty fruits (coconuts, avocados, palm fruits...)

Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The whole point of my topic is to troll a little by making a statement based on very basic things, and by extension showing that it works on various people. We could fight over a "more perched" debate on a certain number of studies, but that would be long and uninteresting.

Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  

Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If you want my opinion on such and such a study I can tell you, possibly.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

[M A J I]

Reading through there is a a lot of misinformation here on these forum chats. I know many people who have been plant based without any supplements who are thriving and healthy for many years. 10+ years here.

I also know the same for those who are choosing the omnivore path, and a few that are more carnivore path. Nutrition is very poorly understood as is our bodies intelligence, remember we are created out of infinite intelligence.

Here is a nice conversation with a person who is experimenting with carnivore diet and a person who is fruitarian. 

How discussions should be. Gotta find what works best for you because arguing never gets anywhere.
 

Edited April 20, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Pandas, like any bear, are omnivores, means they can consume either only plants or only meat their entire life and they will be healthy.

Don't pretend not to understand, pansa is mainly herbivorous.  There are actually quite a few purely herbivorous or carnivorous animals, most of the time these are abuses of language.

Quote

We might consume meat once in a while and to be fine, but we can't be healthy by eating meat only, while we can be healthy by eating only plants.

No, without supplement you will die, or in any case be in very bad health.

There is no vegan civilization, strictly none outside the imagination of some.

Quote

We forced into cooking meat in order to survive. Especially in cold areas with long winters, when there are no plants available for long periods of time. 
 

Lol.  You just spit a racist myth on me that Europeans are mammoth-eating hunter-gatherer warriors and non-white/Europeans are strutting around in the rainforest eating coconuts and plantains.

That's not how it works and the majority of tropical civilizations have based their diet largely on animal products.

Same for dairy products.
 

Gift : https://www.sci.news/archaeology/indus-civilization-people-diet-09136.html

I recorded it recently because I found it interesting

Quote

Source?

It literally took me 5 seconds to find it on google, despite being an insomniac and terribly lazy to do research.

Quote

 

But I like it since my childhood and many humans like it. Are they doing wrong that they like fruits and vegetables?

For the 10th time carnivores is a misnomer for "primal".  And I'm not on a diet outside of instinct.  Fruits are good to some extent, vegetables are not, people hide the taste of vegetables with spices, salts, fats etc, especially if they are very bitter/fibrous.

Quote

I'm sorry it affected you that way. What food caused you this? Legumes?

yes

Quote

I know that carnivore diet creates more body odor, means more smelly excretions.

Idk

Quote

And vegan diet improves body odor, which makes people with plant based diet more attractive sexually because they smell better.

Ditto, do you have an epidemiological study on the smell of carnivores and their sexual attractiveness?  lol.

What I eat has never changed my body odor, maybe some people starve themselves too much fat or something and produce too much lactic acid.

Quote

 

Nuts are full of it, avocado too, some of green leaves like lettuce has omega 3 too

No, these foods don't contain "a lot of omega 3", the only seeds that contain a lot of O3 are marginal (chia, flax, hemp...) and they are Omega 3 ALA, you have to consume a lot to convert enough to  EPA/DHA.  I even saw a video of a vegan dr (I forget what his name is, he was on What Thé Health and seems to be North African or mixed race) admitted that many of his patients were  deficient.

Quote

and many kinds of algae which are very rich in omega 3. 

lol, that's like saying calcium deficiency wasn't a problem because you can suck on a limestone brick

Quote

 

I'm very sorry to ruin your illusion, but it's too easy to debunk you.

All right

Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria found in the soil, not by animals or plants.

Animals do not get vitamin b12 by eating plants.  Their intestinal flora metabolizes the cobalt in the tons of vegetables they consume into enough b12.  Even if you were right you can't eat so many plants anyway, it would be deadly.  You also can't get enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or some bullshit.  In fact the only people coming out with such dangerous ideas are ideologically mentally ill and I hope you understand that these guys are marginal and ideologically mentally ill.  Neal Barnard (I think he's the one who said that in what the health) would be easily condemned in France for saying things like that.  I don't know how it works in other countries in Europe but here I am probably similar.

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And eating meat doesn't guarantee that you wouldn't have vitamin B12 deficiency. It depends whther the animal you eat consumed enough B12 or not.

If even eating a certain amount of animal products is insufficient how can you claim to have enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or eating grass lol.  Otherwise yes, depends on the cooking method, the part of the animal etc.

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Vegan sources for B12 can be mushrooms, algae, cereals.

"suck the pebbles"

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Beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread, quinoa. 

 

Shiitake mushrooms, soy beans, wheat germs, cruciferous vegetables, almonds, quinoa, red potatoes. They are all have enough to be healthy. Too much choline is unhealthy.

At least we travel with veganism lol

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Cereals and legumes.

 

Lentils, spinach, chickpea, tofu, cashews,  bean,potatoes, kale.

So why did my physical performance increase by quitting veganism?  Why do all vegan athletes consume a significant amount of protein from rice, peas etc?  Have you ever tried to eat a ton of beans every day?

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There is protein in any food, whether it's a plant or not, we don't need a lot protein and protein deficiency is not common.

It is not because it is difficult to be lacking in something that it is not problematic to have little.  Where are the low protein athletes?  There is good where graham from but his teeth are rotten, he is skinny and nothing says he is not under trt.  The majority of frugivores are physically wasteful, and even starch eaters often have to take supplements.

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I don't understand, is he skinny or fat?

Both, it looks like a bottle of orangina

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Isn't it exactly what you are doing here on this thread?

I play

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You are started with justifying your choice to eat meat.

No, I don't have to justify anything to anyone.  And eating meat is not a choice, it's so obvious.

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Can't you just eat your meat quietly without opening a thread full of excuses?

You project yourself, the only liberal in the tertiary sector who feels guilty about eating meat is you.  I'm just playing, starting debates is a game, it's literally the purpose of life.  If it bothers you, you don't have to post, are you aware of that?

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In my childhood, my family wanted me to eat meat and they tried to push it to my throat. This is the story of so many vegan and vegetarian people. Society puts so much pressure to eat meat. Given this situation, it means that people who don't eat meat really don't want to eat meat. 

Different people have a different understanding of "nice". 

 

Obviously, the more you annoy someone on a subject the more you push them into reverse neurosis.  It is for this precise reason that I promote a diet based on the senses and instinct.

 

11 hours ago, Jannes said:

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

The problem is not to do or not to do what you have done in the past, the problem is that you are adapted to it whether you want to or not.  I'm no archaeologist, I can try to talk about that but my point is that a vegan diet just doesn't taste good unless it cheats, causes gas issues etc.

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Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 
 

Extra proteins lol

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Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  
 

One day, I will do a pro primal diet file, something very serious.

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Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

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Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[ZenAlex]

On 18/04/2023 at 1:32 PM, Schizophonia said:

@ZenAlex

1)Plants doesn't have or/are very deficient on :

-B12

-EPA/DHA (unless you consume silly amounts of flax/chia seed)

-Vitamine A (same but with carrot juice, sweet potatoes etc.)

-Zinc (Vegetarianism will drastically increase the copper to zinc ratio, and increase the metabolism of dopamine to downstream stimulatory catecholamines, while having lower gaba signaling, zinc is also very necessary for the production of sperm and testosterone, it is literally one of the first supplements used to boost these.)

-Choline (Only in large quantities in eggs and animal flesh, necessary for the synthesis of seminal fluid and especially acetylcholine, itself necessary for good muscle and especially cerebral function, also serves to balance excess catecholamines.)

-L-Carnitine (also needed for the brain)

-Heme Iron A significant portion of the world's population is anemic, and even without it your levels may be too low. (that's my case).
You can't reverse anemia with non-heme iron unless you use monstrous amounts, and it will damage your gut flora.

-Proteins (sports vegans and in particular bodybuilders all gorge themselves on protein from peas, rice, hemp etc. There is a German powerlifter (that nobody knows lol) presented in the game changers, the guy made a video "what i eat in a day", he was literally fueled with protein powder smoothies.
Of course these athletes also do (or have done) roids, otherwise they are all slow and skinny fat.

I also sometimes see guys here quoting sadghuru, I don't know how you can take this guy for a reference in terms of spirituality and health, he is a caricature of a skinny fat Hindu guru who speaks in slow motion.
My grandfather who had terminal cancer had as much energy as him lol.

 

2)

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without.
Why do you have this slave mentality? were you humiliated in your childhood or something like that to the point of taking the holding back of your cravings as a virtue?
This is a recurrence among vegans, especially the most orthorexic.

I want to be nice to myself and others, I eat meat and sugar and I wish the same to the people I love.
You must read Nietzsche

Don't expect me to provide a detailed response if you've literally just googled "Why not to be vegan" and just copied and pasted a crappy response like this.

I've been vegan for 7 years. I've got blood tests. I'm not deficient in anything. Veganism is not a nutritionally deficient diet, and world health organisations have recognised it as a nutritionally sufficient diet. You can get everything you need from plants.

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without - Because eating animal products and contributing the exploitation of animals without a very good reason is immoral and also bad for the environment. 

The fact that you have to ask why a Vegan would typically go vegan makes me think you've not really researched this subject, if that wasn't already obvious by your cut and paste crap above about what you supposedly cannot get as a vegan.

Why do you have this slave mentality? Wtf are you talking about? Also I don't get any cravings.

[ZenAlex]

On 18/04/2023 at 5:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever. It is certainly not healthy. Of course that doesn't mean some amount of meat is bad for health. But all-meat is not the proper diet for a human. These social media influencers are selling you fantasies, both meat-eaters and vegans. Balance in your diet is key.

I appreciate your honest response about this. 

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

 

The problem is not to do or not to do what you have done in the past, the problem is that you are adapted to it whether you want to or not.

There is definitely much truth to that. But it is still possible that the adoption for diet A accidentally allowed diet B as well. Besides that humans survived with many different eating habits around the globe, some meat focused and some with very little meat. And if there is one thing that accelerated our evolution and brain growth the most it's the ability to heat things up. This paleo raw eating philosophy is completely BS. Our natural diet is a cooking diet. 

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm no archaeologist, I can try to talk about that but my point is that a vegan diet just doesn't taste good unless it cheats, causes gas issues etc.

Anything with lots of calories tastes good pretty much universally. You can find deer enjoying stake. Do you think that is natural? Or you can find Tigers munching on watermelon. Do you think that is natural?

Also do you think candy and fried food is healthy because it tastes good?

I think it's our oversupply of food that makes us delusional to the point where we confuse somewhat boring natural taste with toxicity. In Stone Age you would probably be very happy to munch on some roots and seeds.

 

[M A J I]

21 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Or maybe this is because people now live longer than those tribals you referred to? Yes, maybe 10,000 yrs ago people didn't have allergies but a pandemic of tuberculosis would have wiped out 80% of the tribe. Not to mention 9/10 children would not live to be 5 years old, mothers would be dying during labour and average lifespan being 30-40. Allergies might be the cost we pay for having eradicated  99% of deadly viruses and bacteria that were killing people left and righjt. Maybe that's a small price to pay for being sure you children don't die of smallpox? 

As per the mental distress and "mess" consider how our lifes have changed as the society has evolved. We live in different housing, people have more stressors, more burdens and more responsibilities which is causing mental distress - an average women no longer just cares about babies. Now she has a career, dependencies, bills to pay, body to take care of, a husband to satisfy, food to provide, deadlines to deliver, car to drive, grociers to take care of, household to manage, hobbies and interests to satisfy, parents to take care of (who now live longer and are more likely to get sick and need help) etc etc etc. I don't know about your life but I certianly cannot afford to sit and meditate for hours a day or live on fruits while running a business & having a 9-5 job, deadlines, projects, bills to pay in double-digit inflation etc. I could not do that on fruit juices, trust me I tried. (read below) 

I just want to make sure you are not having a distorted perspective of the world as it would seem from some of your comments. Maybe you are lucky to be able to afford a certain type of lifestyle that many cannot. If you live with parents or live in a place like California, south US, Australia or have a wealthy family, you may completely misrepresent what life is like for most people. I think that's important to appreciate. I can tell you that folks in cold UK, northern Europe, Germany, France or Baltic region cannot live on fruits in January.

Or imagine being a single mother living in Manchester UK or the suburban Washington DC with low level of education and an annual income of 18K having 3 jobs. You're glad if you can keep your kids alive with the cheapest diet possible without them going hungry, going dirty or turning to drugs. 

I know where you're coming from in general. I was a follower of Robert Morse, John Rose, Mangotarian (before he turned to dark side), I was a member of 30 Bananas a Day following Freelee and her craziness and even using ROber Morse's herbs for like 6 months to eradicate my allergies (didn't help as much) and all those sides and I was sold into the ideology of infinite body intelligence, fruit fasting and all of that. If if you look back enough, my comments on this forum 4-5 years ago reflected that. What happened is I started losing strength, libido, my gums eroded a few millimetres on bottom canines (that has never recovered since) and I generally felt like shit on a fruitarian diet. It was the most expensive and most challenging diet I've ever been on. 

But at some point, you come to a point where you see that this lifestyle is unattainable for most people.  And that's where a balance needs to come in. You introduce cooked food, some legumes, spices, some meat (unless ethically conflicted) and suddenly you feel much better. And I know protein is being thrown around a lot but despite that many people still walk around protein deficient as they try to navigate all the internet nonsense and are going from one fad to another. Even highly educated and well-off people struggle with this. I know the opinion of Robert Morse and his community on protein (acid causing, mucous causing and all that stuff) but without it people just feel like crap. What's the point of living like that? 

Don't take that as a criticism and ignore if doesn't resonate, it's just an observation and an attempt to draw the other side of the chasm. 

I am speaking much earlier than 10 thousand years ago, think 25 - 200+ thousand, I am speaking beyond the dark-ages, not after consciousness/intelligence dropped as people no longer consumed fruit or the "living" food because they naturally had lost the knowledge with intelligence decline. We lived hundreds and even thousands of years at one point... This is what you would call full 12 strand DNA activation. The air quality and cohesive ecosystem when humanity was actually Conscious and Intelligence was 1000x greater, we get so fined tuned that food is more for pleasure and can rely soly on cosmic forces or rays. Study the Yugas and Golden age. Tony Wright has great discussions explained how our brains actually evolved through fruit, not meat, this is common knowledge in my field and known for some time, but then again it goes even deeper than that..

So now we are now very fragmented with artificial environments, toxic air, fake foods ect... We have become degenerates overtime, synergistically(hence mass awakenings) we again are entering the silver/golden ages of the times past, universe is a spiral of cycles. What I share here will become more evident as consciousness/intelligence rises, it will make sense and you we will eventually be able to connect the dots. You judge me because you can only meet me as deep as you have met yourself. If i was being honest, almost everyone on these forums I encounter, I see a younger version of myself, and all I can really do is continue to be my example and speak my truth. The truth never changes, just the expression of it.

All your history and education has been spoon fed to you by the world and until you go beyond the world you cannot see beyond it, the knowledge that was lost with intelligence, requires that of like vibration to retap into it. Think of memory as a radio frequency, it is not confined to the brain, its a wave, if you vibrate accordingly, you match it, you see it, you remember it. Simple.

I do many of those things you mentioned and have more energy than most people around me and yet I consume mostly fruit? I see others around me rise and crash with every meal, while i fast 16 - 20 hours a day. You could not do it cause your vibration was yet to acclimate to that level of being and you may still need DNA reworking and activation, if that is relevant for you. Its a much longer (transition) for some than it is for others, and some don't transition.

There is no such thing as luck my friend, its called "alignment".

Abundance is your frequency, and your frequency is your currency.

There are people in those countries you mentioned that do thrive on fruits. I know many breatharians and fruitarians all over the world, there are many gatherings and festivals we partake in yearly. We know people that are hundreds of years old and don't look a day over 60. We are so conditioned by the western system we really have been significantly dumbed down by a techo-chemical imbalance we think "aging" is normal.

Give Mans Higher Consciousness by Hilton Hotema a read, it may help open up your eyes and mind. There is a lot you have yet to realize.

You felt like shit because as I said, you were not ready/aligned for it, you did it out of the mind and not actually following your body of consciousness, and or you did not do the deeper detoxing and de-programing, long fasting ect.. monk-mode... that are required for the regeneration and redesign of the cellular matrix. We as humans cannot return to perfection overnight, first the environment is far too toxic in most places for us to live without food, so for most people that is completely out of the window, but fruit is the closest thing to the optimal state, health and function of the human being we have, especially mono-fruit. Its how we are designed to pick and eat fruit.

Your assumptions are incorrect in my case, anything but fruit with the exception of some boiled or steamed veggies, nuts & seeds, sprouts, would significantly hinder my energy, power, clarity and overall experience. I have experimented many times my friend, I have been on this path for 15 or more years. I even gained muscle mass and natural tone with fruit without exercising because it is harmony with my frequency, and its most natural human being, so the body becomes beautiful, like the fruit, you become what you eat, and once my cellular structure was clean, I was able to fully utilize nutrients both via food and cosmic rays.

Most people do not have "deficiency issues" they have "absorption issues" because their bodies are so clogged up with toxins, processed foods, junk, sugar, salt ect.. paired with a toxic and radiated environments, most people are only at 10 - 20% total efficiency, most have no idea what is beyond that because they are full of junk..

Once you understand the "vibrational" aspect to things, you will understand the depth of which I speak. As Nikola Tesla said best, to understand the universe we must think in terms of "energy, frequency, vibration". Deficiencies and health issues only arise if your vibration is not fully aligned with your current diet/lifestyle. I posted a video a few pages back, I am guessing you did not see it, which explains these things very well and why and how these things work. P.S I never supplement for anything b12, iron, protein any of that stuff because I overstand "how it really works".

We cannot make the shift overnight from eating the wrong foods our whole lives and poor living environments for thousands of years that are deeply rooted within our collective conscious/psyche, and to become fruitarian and breatharian overnight is not happening for most of people, but its definitely possible now and with practice can be remastered, we have just been taught wrong and are very, shall we say.. rusty. It definitely will take time to regenerate and transition for most, but the rewards are enlightening to say the least...

Fruiit & Fasting makes our bodies "protest" to toxic environments and poor lifestyle habits and choices we make and live. That is why most struggle, so they need potatoes and meat to numb the pain and emotions and find some kind of more-grounded/less sensitive balance, because as you start to free your body up (from the inside) things are "brought up to the surface" to be met and faced and healed, this may be too much for those not ready to integrate such depth of truth.

Watch this video, it simplifies for you your experience.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by M A J I