Why do I see from my eyes and not yours? Why am I me and not you?(answered )

[Gesundheit2]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes the world ceases to exist if you are not perceiving it via any medium. If you  see a full bottle of water..then that's what exists. A full bottle of water. If you see half a bottle of water then that's what fucking exists ..half a bottle.

Reality is precisely what you are consciousness of fully at any given moment .the mistake is you are imagining an external objective world that is the underlying source of perceptions/consciousness.  But go ahead and prove to me ..if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it ..does it make a sound ? And for whom ?

 

Hold your breath for one second, that's not how the game is played.

I didn't ask for a solipsism teacher, rather you wanted an argument against solipsism. Did you consider my argument carefully?

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

A blind person loses only visual perceptions.  So the visual field doesn't exist for a blind person. But If he moves around ..he may hit the walls of the room..touch things ..smell and taste things etc ...because now his consciousness has been reduced to only that .

Well, that's basically the point. And I don't see any hint or flavor of solipsism in there.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Cessation is ALL of that ? What a Flexible definition. Because these things you mentioned are not the same thing . Ego death is when your sense of self dissolves . Samadhi is when you experience oneness with everything. 

They're very much the same thing, my guy. It's just that cessation is when you let the effects run for longer without interruption and maxing them out.

 

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Now the million dollar question is “Who or what is it that actually sees, hears, smells, tastes, feels and thinks?”.

Very few humans can come up with a meaningful answer to this most fundamental question. 

Do you have an answer to that question?

Consciousness is pure being/knowing, and perceptions (seeing, hearing, smeeling, etc.) arise secondarily.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Is there an external physical world? Does my consciousness come from a brain?

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Hold your breath for one second, that's not how the game is played.

I didn't ask for a solipsism teacher, rather you wanted an argument against solipsism. Did you consider my argument carefully?

Yes . I understood what you said.  You asked if the world still exists when we are not perceiving it ...and I told you no .it ceases to exist if you are not perceiving it .

When you wake up from a dream ..you don't assume that the characters in your dream were conscious or exist outside of  your mind.  Why is that ? Can you answer this question?

Consciousness is a field that all beings are connected to, like a receiver is connected to airwaves.

What we recieve and are aware of depends upon our perceptual apparatus. Just like a radio .. It could be AM, FM, TV, Microwave etc..so if your consciousness is not displaying for you Japan or China  at this  precise moment..then China and Japan literally don't exist right now ,anywhere. Except as a thought .

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Well, that's basically the point. And I don't see any hint or flavor of solipsism in there.

It's obvious..if you take away sight ..the visual field disappears. If you take away hearing ..the adutory field disappears and so forth.

So what happens if we stripped all sense perceptions? The answer is rather simple but quite radical at the same time ..simply the entire world will disappear. Because it was not an object. It was a perception. An image in consciousness.  Just like a TV ..if you switch it off ..the whole movie disappears. 

[Loveeee]

On 5.1.2023 at 2:29 PM, Someone here said:

I have repeated this over the months .I can't have access to ANY psychedelic (including mushrooms) in India because they are banned and illegal.  The only option for me is via the dark Web. And I obviously don't want to put myself in legal problems . There is not even weed dealers where I live .so imagine how tough it is to find more potent psychedelics.

Buy  research chemicals like 1P-LSD, easier and safer than dark web stuff

Here : [redacted] always ordered there never had a problem 

Hope this isn't against forum rules 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit2]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes . I understood what you said.  You asked if the world still exists when we are not perceiving it ...and I told you no .it ceases to exist if you are not perceiving it .

But my model suggests that you are somewhere inside the room, not the room itself.

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

When you wake up from a dream ..you don't assume that the characters in your dream were conscious or exist outside of  your mind.  Why is that ? Can you answer this question?

I don't know, honestly. Maybe I should start considering this possibility more.

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Consciousness is a field that all beings are connected to, like a receiver is connected to airwaves.

What we recieve and are aware of depends upon our perceptual apparatus. Just like a radio .. It could be AM, FM, TV, Microwave etc..so if your consciousness is not displaying for you Japan or China  at this  precise moment..then China and Japan literally don't exist right now ,anywhere. Except as a thought .

It's obvious..if you take away sight ..the visual field disappears. If you take away hearing ..the adutory field disappears and so forth.

So what happens if we stripped all sense perceptions? The answer is rather simple but quite radical at the same time ..simply the entire world will disappear. Because it was not an object. It was a perception. An image in consciousness.  Just like a TV ..if you switch it off ..the whole movie disappears. 

That's not necessarily the case. If I turn off the radio, that doesn't mean the radio station doesn't exist.

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Is there an external physical world? Does my consciousness come from a brain?

Brains are within consciousness, not the other way around. Brain activity seems to correlate with certain sense perceptions (seeing, hearing, smelling, etc.), but again, sense perceptions are not consciousness. As for there being an external physical world, the way certain sense perceptions seem to appear along fairly consistent patterns (described by concepts such as space and time) can compel you to use the description of "external physical world" (e.g. when you go to the store, your house is still there when you return), but it's still all occuring within consciousness which doesn't have an inside or an outside.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

They're very much the same thing, my guy. It's just that cessation is when you let the effects run for longer without interruption and maxing it out.

 

 

No .they are not the same thing. this is a mistake, a mistake based on misunderstanding.dependent arising, and the word nirodha (mistranslated as “cessation”), and in general misunderstanding the way the Buddha taught  the rhetorical methods.

Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about . I studied Buddhism for years and I know the difference between terms such as "enlightenment ","cessation ","samadhi ","shunyata "etc. 

Cessation of perception and feeling is described as one of the meditative attainments in Buddhism, the one leading to liberation.
However, not all Buddhist monks anddescribed in the suttas experienced this meditative state, indicating that it’s not something needed for liberation.

Cessation in brief is to introduce a meditative state called Jhana and from there on build into a state where the perception (notion) of the body is not present anymore. The mind is fully occupied with ‘mental’ work which will shut down all notions of sense impressions which includes bodily sensations.

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Consciousness is pure being/knowing, and perceptions (seeing, hearing, smeeling, etc.) arise secondarily.

Also false. That's duality .consciousness is sense perceptions. You are carving out that distinction based on what exactly?..there is only one substance out of which all of reality is made ..and that is consciousness/perceptions/awareness/ being ..etc call it whatever you want.

Anyways..I want to get back to the original topic of this thread because we've been losing track of the original question. I explained why I see from my eyes and yours because I'm the only conscious being in existence at the moment. And you are me in a different timeline. That's my explanation. What's yours ?

[Carl-Richard]

34 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Also false. That's duality .consciousness is sense perceptions. You are carving out that distinction based on what exactly?..there is only one substance out of which all of reality is made ..and that is consciousness/perceptions/awareness/ being ..etc call it whatever you want.

I explained why I see from my eyes and yours because I'm the only conscious being in existence at the moment. And you are me in a different timeline.

My eyes vs. your eyes? Isn't that a distinction? It's not that distinctions don't exist. It's that distinctions are from the absolute perspective One.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No .they are not the same thing. this is a mistake, a mistake based on misunderstanding.dependent arising, and the word nirodha (mistranslated as “cessation”), and in general misunderstanding the way the Buddha taught  the rhetorical methods.

Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about . I studied Buddhism for years and I know the difference between terms such as "enlightenment ","cessation ","samadhi ","shunyata "etc. 

Cessation of perception and feeling is described as one of the meditative attainments in Buddhism, the one leading to liberation.
However, not all Buddhist monks anddescribed in the suttas experienced this meditative state, indicating that it’s not something needed for liberation.

Cessation in brief is to introduce a meditative state called Jhana and from there on build into a state where the perception (notion) of the body is not present anymore. The mind is fully occupied with ‘mental’ work which will shut down all notions of sense impressions which includes bodily sensations.

But have you experienced anything you're talking about?

[Arthogaan]

I think that you guys @Carl-Richard and @Thought Art actually agree and there is just difference in word usage.

Carl would say that there is only consciousness, and what happens within that one consciousness is all there is.
@Thought Art (and myself too) would argue that when we can purify the Self and The Mind so much that our identity becomes just pure Consciousness. Consciousness without any perceptions that happen within it like our ego, our human lower-case mind. So then with this new pure Identity I=Consciousness we can say that I/Mind is all that there is. 

But Carl prefers to avoid using I or My Mind to not confuse the beginners that there is some ego identity left in True Solipsism.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Arthogaan

[Thought Art]

@Arthogaan I wouldn't say that ahah. Man, so murky is all this. I wouldn't say a purification process is needed for reality to be pure consciousness. If I was totally depressed, ignorant and neurotic it wouldn't change a thing.

When I take a shit, that is pure consciousness. 

However, a purification, and education process is need to REALIZE what is consciousness. That the room you are in isn't a sense perception... but your own mind. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Thought Art

[Carl-Richard]

24 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

I think that you guys @Carl-Richard and @Thought Art actually agree and there is just difference in word usage.

Carl would say that there is only consciousness, and what happens within that one consciousness is all there is.
@Thought Art (and myself too) would argue that when we can purify the Self and The Mind so much that our identity becomes just pure Consciousness. Consciousness without any perceptions that happen within it like our ego, our human lower-case mind. So then with this new pure Identity I=Consciousness we can say that I/Mind is all that there is. 

But Carl prefers to avoid using I or My Mind to not confuse the beginners that there is some ego identity left in True Solipsism.

I'm just saying there is a distinction between sense perceptions and consciousness.

[Carl-Richard]

38 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Hope this isn't against forum rules 

It is.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/

[axiom]

Let's be honest. it's pretty funny to see people on a spiritual forum arguing over whether it should be possible to see through each others' eyes or not  Exactly the same tone can be found in any social media spat of any kind.

Has all this preoccupation with spiritual growth yielded anything useful, I wonder...

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, axiom said:

Let's be honest. it's pretty funny to see people on a spiritual forum arguing over whether it should be possible to see through each others' eyes or not  Exactly the same tone can be found in any social media spat of any kind.

Has all this preoccupation with spiritual growth yielded anything useful, I wonder...

 

 

22 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Breakingthewall 

23 hours ago, Thought Art said:

 

 

all this comes from the ideas about solipsism released by leo. the idea of solipsism is useful for the spiritual work. it forces you to take full responsibility for yourself and your awakening process. but ultimately it's just a conceptual thing. for true spirituality you have to transcend the mind, and the idea: only I exist, it is mind, the same as: others have consciousness. Neither of them is valid, they are just mind games. the reality is. 

[Loveeee]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

It is.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/

Even if it's legal ? My bad then

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Loveeee said:

Even if it's legal ? My bad then

Yes. Np.

[Thought Art]

43 minutes ago, axiom said:

Let's be honest. it's pretty funny to see people on a spiritual forum arguing over whether it should be possible to see through each others' eyes or not  Exactly the same tone can be found in any social media spat of any kind.

Has all this preoccupation with spiritual growth yielded anything useful, I wonder...

 

 

I don't think that's exactly what we are arguing. There's been a lot of elements and areas, different use of words, different reference experiences, different models, different fears, different blind spots, different self deceptions.. it's messy stufff.

Spirituality is vast... of course there is communication, debate, learning, sharing of different models of understanding. That is part of being human.

We don't hate each other, conflict is totally normal and healthy.

People tend to take things a bit personally especially with Solipsism because it's threatening down to the core.

Also, welcome to the internet. 

People have many misconceptions of what a spiritual person can be like. 

It's messy work.

There is a time for peaceful contemplation, meditation, Qigong, deep trips... and a time for discussion on a forum. It's all part of the richness of my dream.

For me, honestly this is my entertainment and I am also always learning. This is also part of my process.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm just saying there is a distinction between sense perceptions and consciousness.

We will have to explore this more over time. In my understanding they are One and the Same. 

I've had total cessation, down to what I would say you refer to as "Pure Consciousness" The infinite potential, void, infinity, Nothingness, the "Back drop of all things"... But, I have in my understanding unified that to even the room I am in. When I look at my hand... I see it as pure consciousness. That's what it's "Made of" because all there is is a dream.

In a dream, there is not idea of a "sense perception" because you don't consider it to be a physical world like day to day life. It's the same thing.

All is myself, all is made of pure consciousness. There is no absolute sense organs or physical world... so for me personally, there is no sense perceptions... Just, consciousness. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Thought Art