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Why do I see from my eyes and not yours? Why am I me and not you?(answered )

171 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Okay, you are a jerk. Conversation over. Great Mod.

I'm a jerk and we're a cult. What a great combo.

 

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Missing the points of what I am saying.

 You ran out of points 5 responses ago.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Carl-Richard Nah man. I am going to eject before this escalates. I have reported your last message.

I am learning from so many teachers and resources. How can you be a Mod? How can someone with this level of emotional intelligence be a Mod? Can't even have a conversation. You distort peoples points to hurt them.

Stay well, stay safe 

Ma'a Salam

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Just now, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Nah man. I am going to eject before this escalates. I have reported your last message.

I saw.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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4 hours ago, Thought Art said:

How can you be a Mod? How can someone with this level of emotional intelligence be a Mod? Can't even have a conversation. You distort peoples points to hurt them.

One joke and everybody loses their shit :ph34r: If you want some perspective, I think this confusion of terms is causing real world harm, and when someone comes to the defense for such things, I'm sorry, but I guess I became a little emotional and made a joke for once.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Carl-Richard That’s not what you did. It’s your way or the high way. Put others down. Be rude to everyone and the guy who created this open minded community of philosophers and mystics. 
 

We are all encouraged to think for ourselves. My awakenings suggest… well…
 

Everyone, Carl has a dictionary and if your words don’t match his… be warned! Even if you hold the definition and it matches what you are saying!
 

Either we all agree with Carl’s use of language or you are wrong. That’s it. 
 

Anyway, I’m going to keep speaking my truth. 
 

Even if you stripped the word Solipsism from what I am saying… it doesn’t change what I’m pointing to. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Just now, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard That’s not what you did. It’s your way or the high way. Put others down. Be rude to everyone and the guy who created this own minded community of philosophers and mystics. 
 

Either we all agree with Carl’s use of language or you are wrong. That’s it. 

Being critical is not being rude. Maybe the joke was rude, but not the points. And I'm not the only one driving the Leo critic bus. You just keep laying yourself under the tires.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Carl-Richard You are not just being critical. Self reflect a little bit buddy on your last few responses to me. You don’t have authority over me. 
 

What tires? 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Just now, Thought Art said:

What tires? 

shutterstock_36793882.jpg


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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I’m sorry Carl, I’ve been doing some reading… you are simply ignorant on the subject of solipsism and it’s embarrassing.

a simple example. 
 

It’s unfortunate you lack integrity and this, this is my last post. 

https://iep.utm.edu/solipsis/ (this is so badly written)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-i-know-im-not-the-only-conscious-being-in-the-universe/?amp=true

Also study Jed McKenna’s work, smoke some DMT or 5meodmt, 

read some more books, study, contemplate. Make your own conclusions. Try not to bully others on the forum for disagreeing with you.

You’ve gone on and on today about how we are misusing the word Solipsism without doing any study or reading of articles on the very first page of Google. Insulting Leo, me and others on the forum. What an embarrassing way to behave. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

 

Quote

For the solipsist, it is not merely the case that he believes that his thoughts, experiences, and emotions are, as a matter of contingent fact, the only thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Rather, the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own.

 

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

So again, an actual solipsist would believe that some sense perceptions that they have identified as themselves are the only things that truly exist. They do this based on how their own body and mind seems to relate to the environment and other bodies within it.

So let me repeat: the body and the mind are sense perceptions; what you call objects, sounds, shapes, colors, sensations.

Please point out the contradiction. You can't, because thoughts, experiences and emotions are sense perceptions.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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59 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

 

Quote

The solipsism problem, also called the problem of other minds, lurks at the heart of science, philosophy, religion, the arts and the human condition.

 

Quote

problem of other minds, in philosophy, the problem of justifying the commonsensical belief that others besides oneself possess minds and are capable of thinking or feeling somewhat as one does oneself.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/problem-of-other-minds

"Thinking" and "feeling" are sense perceptions.

 

Quote

The problem of other minds is a philosophical problem traditionally stated as the following epistemological question: Given that I can only observe the behavior of others, how can I know that others have minds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds

"Behavior" and "mind" are sense perceptions.

 

As for "justifying other minds", i.e. presenting an analytical philosophical argument justifying other minds, I've not really been doing that here. To understand the primacy of consciousness, you have to become directly conscious of it. That is what consciousness is; pure phenomenology. The same with my play example. It's not a philosophical argument either. It's an appeal to the phenomenology of social interactions and emotional empathy.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Carl-Richard Honestly man, you’ve got this who sense perception thing going on which to me means nothing to me with regards to solipsism. 
 

I’m not sharing the links for any reason Other than, the ideas of solipsism shared with Leo, or Jed McKenna, or others is… not unique to them. It’s not purely and actualized bubble. 

Yes, sense perception. It’s not changing anything in my mind. 
 

Why is X, being a sense perception a point of argument for you? What has it to do with consciousness, or solipsism? How does it disprove it?


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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“Solipsism, technically, is an extreme form of skepticism, at once utterly illogical and irrefutable. It holds that you are the only conscious being in existence. The cosmos sprang into existence when you became sentient, and it will vanish when you die.” 
 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-i-know-im-not-the-only-conscious-being-in-the-universe/?amp=true

Direct quote. 


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Honestly man, you’ve got this who sense perception thing going on which to me means nothing to me with regards to solipsism. 

I know, but it does to people who write about solipsism, which you told me to read about.

 

13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Why is X, being a sense perception a point of argument for you? What has it to do with consciousness, or solipsism? How does it disprove it?

Because you are not a thought, feeling, emotion, experience, object, sound, shape, color, or sensation. You are consciousness. Solipsism is when you take something which is not consciousness and identifying it as yourself and making deductions based on that. "My body is in the center, therefore no other bodies have a mind". If you're trying to say that consciousness is primary, forget bodies, forget thoughts, feelings and emotions. Those things are not inherent to consciousness. Consciousness is fine without them.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

“Solipsism, technically, is an extreme form of skepticism, at once utterly illogical and irrefutable. It holds that you are the only conscious being in existence. The cosmos sprang into existence when you became sentient, and it will vanish when you die.” 
 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-i-know-im-not-the-only-conscious-being-in-the-universe/?amp=true

Direct quote. 

The more abstract the quote, the worse. What does "conscious being" mean? Also, if you're infinite consciousness, then when did you "become sentient"? Hasn't consciousness always been here? How can consciousness vanish when you die? The only thing that vanishes when you die is your human form and the sense perceptions associated with it (thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.).

Besides, I already responded to a quote from that article. Are you saying there is a logical inconsistency in the article?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Carl-Richard good questions. All for now. Stay well

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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Consciousness is seeing through all eyes. There is no duality. 

Edited by r0ckyreed

Meditation is a lifestyle of developing a calm state of mind WHILE engaging in one’s ambitions!

Counting your breaths, chanting a mantra, and the rest of it is all ratshit and a complete waste of time. What is stopping you from meditating WHILE working on your life purpose?

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22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Cessation is just another term for the pure consciousness mystical experience, or ego death, or samadhi, or awakening, where all sense perceptions disappear. There exists neural correlates for this (the Default Mode Network is a very good one

Cessation is ALL of that ? What a Flexible definition. Because these things you mentioned are not the same thing . Ego death is when your sense of self dissolves . Samadhi is when you experience oneness with everything. 

There is no comparison to an alteration of relative reality with an awareness of ultimate reality.

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

No. I think it's nonsensical. To call yourself a solipsist, you have to conflate sense perceptions with pure consciousness. Pure consciousness is in its most fundamental form devoid of all qualities, and all qualities arise within it. To look at an other person and think "that person is nothing like me" is such a juvenile way of approaching reality, it's ridiculous. You are not the person you think you are. The person is just sense perceptions. To think that you are the only person that truly exists is ludicrous. If this is an inaccurate characterization of your views, stop using the solipsism term to describe your views.

Consciousness is purely subjective and that is the main reason why humans have a hard time seeing its true nature as all pervasive.

In fact consciousness is not a substance but it is a concept.

It is a concept that points at wakefulness which is basically perceptions namely, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking. What you conflated as "sense perceptions ".

Consciousness cannot be separated from perceptions.

In deep sleep, there is no time, no space, no cosmos, no observer and no consciousness but just silence and stillness and LIFE in a state of deep peace and un-manifest POTENTIAL.

This deep sleep is the ground state and all the other known states of existence namely, wakefulness, dreams, swoon, coma, death, NDE, OBE, hypnotic states, yogic trances and altered states of consciousness induced by drugs, come and go in the ground state of deep sleep.

Now the million dollar question is “Who or what is it that actually sees, hears, smells, tastes, feels and thinks?”.

Very few humans can come up with a meaningful answer to this most fundamental question. 

Do you have an answer to that question?


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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21 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Imagine a room with a window and you're inside the room looking through the window from the inside out. You see the world around you through this little window.

Does the world around you cease to exist if you close the window or look away?

Does a blind person who doesn't have a window not have a room?

Yes the world ceases to exist if you are not perceiving it via any medium. If you  see a full bottle of water..then that's what exists. A full bottle of water. If you see half a bottle of water then that's what fucking exists ..half a bottle.

Reality is precisely what you are consciousness of fully at any given moment .the mistake is you are imagining an external objective world that is the underlying source of perceptions/consciousness.  But go ahead and prove to me ..if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it ..does it make a sound ? And for whom ?

A blind person loses only visual perceptions.  So the visual field doesn't exist for a blind person. But If he moves around ..he may hit the walls of the room..touch things ..smell and taste things etc ...because now his consciousness has been reduced to only that .


"life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived "

-Osho

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