Someone here

Why there is no agreement and there is confusion about what is the trurh?

111 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

But still..humans can and will keep discovering more and more from the universe. There is no limit to the human curiosity. Look at how science advanced exponentially in the last century.  Whereas animal's curiosity is all about food and sex .

Yes, yes, but it's not at all obvious that human curiosity will give you Truth in the end. Why should it?


All stories and explanations are false.

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4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yes, because those are different tribes.

So you think that cultural differences can alter your worldview to the point of believing the earth is flat ? Is that how severe the Cultral brainwashing can be ?


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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2 hours ago, Vladimir said:

The entire world wants my Truth to be revealed.

OK fine ..what's your "Truth " anyways ? I'm interested to hear ?. 


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Yes, yes, but it's not at all obvious that human curiosity will give you Truth in the end. Why should it?

To have your curiosity frustrated is an uncomfortable feeling, but on the greater scale of things it’s good because this feeling of discomfort drives people to discover some of those elusive truths.

If your curiosity about the universe is a really significant thing for you, you can attend a university or some online courses and learn about astronomy and cosmology. You can be provided with truths as quickly as you can assimilate them.

Many (believe they) have already found it, and are striving to spread it all over the world, by means fair and foul, peaceful and painful.


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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7 hours ago, Someone here said:

You are falling into the neo advaita trap my friend. 

If enlightenment is ‘knowing and being yourself’, then the easiest path undeniably turns out to be ‘probing and discovering yourself’.

Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi calls it ‘Atma Vichara’ or ‘Self-inquiry’, and He said over and over again that this is the Direct Path.

If by chance, you find this direct and easiest path difficult, then you are left with no options other than to take a call on the other paths by others sages .

It still seems wiser to begin from ‘you’, and make amends, if you should, as you move on the path.
That’s the easiest path as it is the sanest, to begin with.

I am not falling into the "neo advaita trap". Rather, you are apparently seeking and looking for answers to what is.

Enlightenment is not about knowing and being yourself. It's not about anything.


Apparently.

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1 hour ago, axiom said:

I am not falling into the "neo advaita trap". Rather, you are apparently seeking and looking for answers to what is.

Enlightenment is not about knowing and being yourself. It's not about anything.

Yes I'm seeking answers to what Is . Because "what is " is extremely mysterious. You can't help but ask questions and seek to understand it .

You suggest to drop the mind and the intellectual contemplating and just focus on being OK with everything (surrender).  Both complete each other .if you go into any side of them too much it becomes extreme and toxic . So you gotta strike the right balance between seeking and surrendering. 


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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As a human, you can transcend your animalistic and genetic limitations and the borders of your conditioned mind. You have this capability. By realizing who you are. You don't possess anything. You Are It. You Are The Way, The Truth, The Life Itself. This is The Essence of You. Your mind is trying to grasp concepts about It. It cannot be done. Infinity cannot be caught. It can only be lived. As You always Are.

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6 hours ago, Someone here said:

So you think that cultural differences can alter your worldview to the point of believing the earth is flat ? Is that how severe the Cultral brainwashing can be ?

If we step on the pedal hard enough, of course. To even question the shape of the Earth contains a lot of cultural assumptions. What is "Earth" to a pre-agricultural tribe? The local environment? Do highly mobile tribes have a different concept of Earth than more sedentary ones? Do they have a concept of "planets" as differentiated from other celestial objects? Do they consider the Earth a planet just like the other ones in the sky? We didn't really do that before the 16th century after advanced developments in mathematics and astronomy. To even have advanced mathematics requires at least a writing system, and that is not a given either.

Even in the modern world, if you're raised by Flat Earthers, it will take a lot of exposure to other cultures before that can be challenged. Even so, you see that it's still just culture, just a larger variety. Besides, if the culture is pervasive enough, experiencing a larger variety will likely never happen (an obvious example is the materialist paradigm). But sure, if humans have a capability of rationality that transcends culture, then surely the individual variation of this matters, and also, having a variety of cultural influences can create a synthesis which is more in line with this rationality, as you're able to do cross-references. If you don't have anything else to contrast your current culture with, you'll just take the blindspots as a given, and you'll stop questioning them. At this point, individual factors will generally start having a bigger effect on the differences.

So the key for people to come into more agreement is to expose oneself to different cultures and viewpoints while following one's sense of rationality. Even when people do that, it might not amount to much. Rationality might actually also be the biggest hurdle. Even people who consider themselves rational are, if not completely unaware, at least painfully ill-equipped with their irrational drives and biases. Andrew Tate comes to mind (he is also well-travelled).

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If we step on the pedal hard enough, of course. To even question the shape of the Earth contains a lot of cultural assumptions. What is "Earth" to a pre-agricultural tribe? The local environment? Do highly mobile tribes have a different concept of Earth than more sedentary ones? Do they have a concept of "planets" as differentiated from other celestial objects? Do they consider the Earth a planet just like the other ones in the sky? We didn't really do that before the 16th century after advanced developments in mathematics and astronomy. To even have advanced mathematics requires at least a writing system, and that is not a given either.

Even in the modern world, if you're raised by Flat Earthers, it will take a lot of exposure to other cultures before that can be challenged. Even so, you see that it's still just culture, just a larger variety. Besides, if the culture is pervasive enough, experiencing a larger variety will likely never happen (an obvious example is the materialist paradigm). But sure, if humans have a capability of rationality that transcends culture, then surely the individual variation of this matters, and also, having a variety of cultural influences can create a synthesis which is more in line with this rationality, as you're able to do cross-references. If you don't have anything else to contrast your current culture with, you'll just take the blindspots as a given, and you'll stop questioning them. At this point, individual factors will generally start having a bigger effect on the differences.

So the key for people to come into more agreement is to expose oneself to different cultures and viewpoints while following one's sense of rationality. Even when people do that, it might not amount to much. Rationality might actually also be the biggest hurdle. Even people who consider themselves rational are, if not completely unaware, at least painfully ill-equipped with their irrational drives and biases. Andrew Tate comes to mind (he is also well-travelled).

I agree . What the masses are led to believe is dependent upon the people in power .who fund and control even scientific research.  So even the theory of evolution might be a conspiracy theory made by illuminati to convince people that the religious story of Adam and Eve in the bible was just a fairy tale . But still ..I think that ordinary people who have no deep understanding of these existential issues can educate yourself via the Internet. We are not living in the middle ages no more .we are in the Internet era where information about Any scientific subject is available. 

Most ancient tribes believed that the earth was flat .I mean the ordinary people. But a few scientists at the beginning of the scientific revolution discovered that the earth was a globe.

Up until about 500BCE, people probably thought what they seemed to see was what is and if you stand on a mountaintop, the ground looks pretty flat

By 500, educated people were beginning to realize that the planet was round, they just had no idea how large it was. Aristotle  pointed out that when a ship appears above the horizon, the masts appear first, then the hull. That could only happen if Earth was spherical. Also ..Eratosthenes, used geometry to calculate the size of the planet .. that he wasn’t accurate is simply due to the fact that large distances couldn’t be measured accurately.

But, at any rate, by the 4th century BCE, educated people knew that Earth is round.

Before that, I don't think most people cared about the shape of the earth. There was speculation that it was flat, and it rested above infinite chain of turtles lol.
Which should make those modern-day Flat-Earthers feel rather stupid right now.



my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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@Someone here

I don't think there is confusion as the question of Truth has already been verified and answered multiple times through Actualized.

The question should be how there could not be confusion about Truth when the Social Matrix incentivizes, and the mechanism of existence is only possible through self-deception.

Could you please explain the difference between a Human and an ape without using language? (I am waiting....................................).No, You can't explain because humans did not descend from apes. They are apes.

Don’t also forget about the underdetermination problem and mind-body problem.

Humans are fearful beings enmeshed with illusion, entangled with survival drive and enslaved to the Denial of Death.

Don’t trust egos when they say they know about Truth and use language to explain it because they are engaging in Self-deception.

That is why 5MEO DMT is the way and shows you the "Beyond Language."

There needs also be an authority of Truth to communicate this glitch within the Matrix. I believe that is the whole work at Actualized here.

My advice is don't worry too much about sleepwalkers as they enjoy their sleep. Use their information to your liking as their insight are also intelligent (one feature of consciousness)

Don't confuse:

Non-Duality with Duality

Absolute Truth with Relative truth

Truth with Survival

The choice is yours. It is your desire for Truth that is going to give you the Truth.

Cheers

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8 hours ago, TRUTHWITHCAPITALT said:

@Someone here

I don't think there is confusion as the question of Truth has already been verified and answered multiple times through Actualized.

The question should be how there could not be confusion about Truth when the Social Matrix incentivizes, and the mechanism of existence is only possible through self-deception.

Could you please explain the difference between a Human and an ape without using language? (I am waiting....................................).No, You can't explain because humans did not descend from apes. They are apes.

Don’t also forget about the underdetermination problem and mind-body problem.

Humans are fearful beings enmeshed with illusion, entangled with survival drive and enslaved to the Denial of Death.

Don’t trust egos when they say they know about Truth and use language to explain it because they are engaging in Self-deception.

That is why 5MEO DMT is the way and shows you the "Beyond Language."

There needs also be an authority of Truth to communicate this glitch within the Matrix. I believe that is the whole work at Actualized here.

My advice is don't worry too much about sleepwalkers as they enjoy their sleep. Use their information to your liking as their insight are also intelligent (one feature of consciousness)

Don't confuse:

Non-Duality with Duality

Absolute Truth with Relative truth

Truth with Survival

The choice is yours. It is your desire for Truth that is going to give you the Truth.

Cheers

Thanks for  the response brother .

Im just curious..how do you know you are not deluded?  What guarantees that you are not falling into epistemic error? Is there an objective instrument that defines what is true and what is false?  Or is truth purely subjective?  And so we have 7 billion different "truths ".


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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On 1/5/2023 at 8:22 AM, Someone here said:

Thanks for  the response brother .

Im just curious..how do you know you are not deluded?  What guarantees that you are not falling into epistemic error? Is there an objective instrument that defines what is true and what is false?  Or is truth purely subjective?  And so we have 7 billion different "truths ".

I appreciate it. 

How do you know you are not deluded?

Should I believe my experience of "direct consciousness"(The six sense) or listen to deluded beings?

If a deluded being told me I am deluded, it is a compliment. Their comment shows their interpretation of reality.

I understand the challenge of explaining the beauty of colour to a blind person.

I understand the challenge of teaching Dolphins Language. (I am not dehumanizing here)

I understand their fear and sympathize.

Direct consciousness is a separate reality. 

The goal here is:

Pure understanding

Integral thinking

Transcend and Include

They can make comments, and I will listen – only a fool would argue with a fool. (Keep in mind a fool that does not know it is a fool is a dangerous fool).

One of the attributes of being directly conscious is understanding that it cannot be explained using the Humanism paradigm. It is a Paradigm lock, and we can only attempt to explain it, which Leo is doing Phenomenal work. 

What guarantees that you are not falling into epistemic error?

 Direct consciousness and consciousness work.

How can you do consciousness work without understanding what consciousness is?

How is it possible to do consciousness work without being directly conscious?

There is only one Epistemic Truth - "There is Nothing - But consciousness."

All all-other Epistemic claims are falsehoods and operate at the Relative Truth level.

Is there an objective instrument that defines what is true and false?

You are asking the wrong question. There will not be such an instrument. 

There is some bitter truth to be swallowed about Truth. Existence is an illusion with capital I. It is not only one illusion. It is an illusion within an illusion, just like duality.

I would recommend Neale Donald Walsch’s book Communion with God.

https://spiritlibrary.com/neale-donald-walsch/the-ten-illusions-of-humans

Or is truth purely subjective? And so we have 7 billion different "truths. "

Relative Truth is purely subjective, but Absolute Truth is beyond subjective. The only thing you can do is understand it.

Yes, we have 7 billion Relative Truths or 7 billion Falsehoods, depending on how you see it.

My advice is to deconstruct it/  Contemplate it. Set a rigorous standard for Truth and watch out for your self-deception and devilry. In that case, you should be able to get better insights than any living being since you are directly conscious and infinitely intelligent. 

Use Actualized as a Model to transcend enslavement to the ego.

Actualized videos are models within models that will help you unlock enormous insights for yourself. Use them wisely per your purpose.

Take Care!

 

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  1. Most people who talk about truth don't understand it in the first place. That includes everyone, even "enlightened gurus".
  2. Most of those who understand it are quite dogmatic in general and have a very limited understanding of it.
  3. Most of those who understand it better still have agendas and biases.
  4. Most of those who can remain impartial have different convictions/philosophies/meta-narratives. Their understanding of the basics of life is different due to limited life experiences. Similar to the image of blind people describing the elephant.

And that leaves you with the elite of the elite, which are super rare. I personally have not yet seen a person who understands truth better than I do. I have seen people who can articulate it better than me, though.


Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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the truth is just this moment. taking a shit is the truth as much as when you realized your infinite nature taking lsd last year.

that's why Buddha only spoke about ending suffering, are you suffering or liberated in this moment? that's all that matters, all that is true and what needs to be investigated


just be here, if you can do it this moment you can do it the next moment

this is the now, now is all that is real, the truth is now, not your concept or experience, just this

is there suffering in this ? work to be done young jedi. me

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20 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I personally have not yet seen a person who understands truth better than I do. I have seen people who can articulate it better than me, though.

 ..so prioritizing the truth over being right.or maybe the other way around ? If truth is the most important thing to you then you are already marching towards it.


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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11 minutes ago, Cathal said:

the truth is just this moment. taking a shit is the truth as much as when you realized your infinite nature taking lsd last year.

that's why Buddha only spoke about ending suffering, are you suffering or liberated in this moment? that's all that matters, all that is true and what needs to be investigated

You can't have happiness and freedom from suffering without knowing the truth . 

In fact I would say that 90% of the reason why people are miserable is because they are lost in confusion and got no clue what's true and what's false anymore .

I agree with you that the quality of our experience is what matters the most ..but that can only come after you awaken to that fact . Don't assume that it's obvious or everyone know this .


my mind is gone to a better place.  I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone .

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On 12/30/2022 at 3:56 PM, Someone here said:

Look at motivational speakers ,public intellectuals ,philosophers,thinkers ,scientists etc..everyone is preaching different ideas and ideologies. Everyone is suggesting different ways of approaching life in all its domains. 

That’s the beauty of life. 
 

As you mature on this journey, you begin to let go of expecting life to be a specific way. You allow all ways (not ignorantly, of course).


Why did the pizza go to therapy?

Ms. Pizza had too many toppings to work through :-(

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7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 ..so prioritizing the truth over being right.or maybe the other way around ? If truth is the most important thing to you then you are already marching towards it.

Valuing truth is definitely an essential component of it. It is a requirement that understanding truth cannot happen without, but it's not enough.


Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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