A Term I Notice Gets Thrown Around Alot GASLIGHTING

[Razard86]

9 hours ago, integral said:

lmaoooo ok we need to make distinctions between words and how they are being used. Im NOT saying take responsibility for other peoples actions, im saying take responsibility for your interpretation of what is happening. 

Im starting to realize how vital this topic is to understand and map out. Its a transition point from Fixed to Growth mindset, Victim to Ownership mindset, (Things are happening to me) to (What is happening is an Interpretation) mindset, Level 1 awareness to Level 2 awareness.

If someone gaslights you or punch's you in the face then we can say you are a victim of a crime but the mindset "I am a victim, poor me, fuck the world" is an interpretation and how you choose to experience what is happening. You can take the punch positively or negatively, you can also have radically different viewpoints of what it means to be punched in the face.

Sadguru when punched in the face is not going to experience it like you or the average person. The point of saying this is to show a new way of living life to inspire someone to transition into that new way. A fixed mindset person will say "I am not sadguru stop comparing him to me", growth mindset "Of course why didn't I think of that earlier, there is a better way". 

"People who have a victim mentality have often suffered through trauma or hard times, but haven't developed a healthier way to cope. As a result, they develop a negative view of life, where they feel that they don't have any control over what happens to them."

Razard then took gaslighting to the next level that no one here is ready for and explained that just the deception that there is a other is to gaslight yourself. Its to use the word and concept gaslighting in the construct aware context. But then everyone else lost there nuts trying to bring it back down to a more familiar context. 

Not in any judgmental way do I say most people are not ready for construct aware conversations. A better strategy instead of debating is to play the construct aware conversation when it pops up for growth and fun. = To go meta on how we engage with people, to make it a choice. 

Razard is 100% aware of the default context of the use of the word gaslighting. Why spend energy "teaching" it to him. 

 

I'm glad you understand what I am saying. And yes I used that term specifically because I noticed how it was being used and weaponized on this forum and other places. So I wanted to show that there is a HEAVY IDENTIFICATION with that word which also means that there is deep trauma associated with the word. Many people who use it must have some shadow work related to very selfish people in the past who they have not healed from. What they don't realize is they are carrying that pain and projectile vomiting onto the present whenever something triggers them and accuse others of being the cause of those repressed feelings coming to the surface.

Does triggering feel good? HELL NO!! But....being aware that becoming triggered can bring to your awareness some unhealed pain...is GREAT for diving into some shadow work and integrating your shadow. This thread and this Spirituality Section is for that very purpose. I mean...we aren't playing games here right? We are here to do some real work!! 

Nothing I do here is out of ill will, those who accuse me of that...you aren't doing the work. 

Source: 

So even the people who troll are acting from good intentions. From their POV they are going after people who they think deserve to be trolled, or they are getting attention that they think in their environment they are being denied, and many other reasons. All for love. Doesn't mean you have to tolerate them but understand there actions are motivated by the same actions...survival. 

Anyway  thanks Integral...maybe you can calm this thread down....and help guide it towards some clarity.

 

[Razard86]

5 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Don't you see that it's just you trolling yourself? 

Yep and its why I choose to block myself. Its a fun game, like shadow boxing, or racing my ghost on a racing game. 

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

Yep and its why I choose to block myself. Its a fun game, like shadow boxing, or racing my ghost on a racing game. 

There's also something called healing and not just personal ownership. 

 

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, axiom said:

Hey all, look at this list of exactly equal things, none of which exist:

A beautiful sunset
A long straight road
Free will
A field full of cows
You
A late train
Thirst
A difficult chess puzzle
Awareness
Gaslighting

Why put You in the middle? Was that intentional or accidental? Also where ya been? I was wondering when you would show up.

[Razard86]

20 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

Reading through this thread: it seems like this has turned into this particular forum's version of "the war of the sexes", which tends to keep cropping up in the Dating/Relationships/ Sexuality forum.

"Standard issue masculine perspective": take responsibility for everything, everything is Y-O-U, it's all in your head/ problems with your thoughts and perspective, snap out of it, whip yourself (and others) into shape, scream at others (and yourself) like a drill sergeant, etc.

""Standard issue female perspective"": Um... everything else that is against this point above, apparently? Even simply taking a different attitude? ...the relative validity of subjective experiences?
 

You almost had it. The feminine perspective is this. Feeling is truth. So the Female Perspective says since I do not emotionally resonate with what is being said I don't agree with it. Men then try to use facts to tell the woman she is wrong, but that is not going to work. You have to emotionally validate to open up the communication for women who haven't integrated their masculine side yet. 

Now the interesting thing is.... Men do view feelings as truth...they just deny it subconsciously. Its really easy to spot though once you know how the whole game is played. I am very good at pissing men off by showing them that their feelings are truth just like it is for women and they delude themselves with hand picked facts and figures. 

But I digress...more men on average actually integrate their feminine. Why? Because for a man to actually get a woman and KEEP her he has to integrate his feminine, but the opposite is not always true, but it is changing because Modern Relationships are starting to require it but that is a whole other thread LOL.

But yes the term gaslighting is really majority used by women....some men use it but mostly used by women. So this thread is going to trigger more women than men, though some men will become triggered by it. I'm sure each person in this thread has a deep dark story, that is associated with that word. I could explain how if you study modern society it actually is a culture/environment that encourages selfish behavior so all it did is increase the population of selfish people which created an upsurge in the study of narcissism and the widespread use of the term "gaslighting." 

[Razard86]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:00 AM, CultivateLove said:

@Razard86 @Roy Let's say two people have a date, and they agree to meet at 8. The girl shows up at 8, but the guy is already there and asks why she's 30 minutes late. She's confused and replies she thought they agreed it's at 8. He says they certainly agreed it was 7:30, but he says he forgives her this time.

If the guy genuinely believed it was 7:30, and he was generally very sure of himself, and didn't mean to show up on the wrong time, it wouldn't be gaslighting.

But if the guy KNEW they agreed to meet at 8, and he KNOWS she doesn't have the best memory or self-esteem, and that he is intentionally doing this to make herself doubt herself even more so he can take even greater advantage of her in the future. IT'S CALLED GASLIGHTING. It's a DISTINCT type of mental & emotional abuse, that DOES HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. (Admittedly not as much as it's thrown around as an accusation).

What else would you call it, other than something overly simplistic and general like lying or abuse? Sure, you could do that, if making simple distinctions takes too much brainpower for you.

Just because a bunch of people don't know what gaslighting actually is and frequently misuse the term, it doesn't mean that what Gaslighting was originally meant to be a label for doesn't exist.

1. I know what the original term means but all you just showed....was lying. You can simplify gaslighting as lying. Now the type of lying is repetitive, and is done usually consciously but sometimes unconsciously to create a narrative that is self-serving. It is a narrative that paints the liar as virtuous and the recipient as unworthy, or less than. I already gave an example in my original post.

For this to work, the recipient will have to have certain constraints. These constraints are a desire to be honest and accountable, a desire to be seen as honest and accountable, very forgiving, poor boundaries, and MOST OF ALL low belief in their own individual meaning creating capacity so they are willing to believe "they are wrong." 

Gaslighting can be attempted, but it rarely ever succeeds with people who are supremely confident about their meaning creating capacity (your ability to make sense of things/knowledge/interpretation/comprehension). And I am not saying an OTHER cannot succeed at either. I AM saying if you take complete authority over your ability to make sense of things the odds someone could effectively pull the wool over your eyes.....is ZERO if you never give your authority away. 

Now there are some moments you may have to give it away, to doctors for example, or mechanic, etc. But if you gain knowledge in those areas....their ability to BULLSHIT YOU...becomes less and less. We only get gaslighted when we think an OTHER knows better and give up our authority. So I am presenting the clarity...that if you know your stuff...how can someone gaslight you? They can ATTEMPT to gaslight you, but the act is nonexistent if it doesn't actually work. It needs to work for you to be gaslighted, but they can definitely ATTEMPT to gaslight you....to no avail.

[BipolarGrowth]

What the hell is this forum anymore…

[Thought Art]

@Razard86 as soon as you start adding caps my brain stops reading btw 

[axiom]

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Why put You in the middle? Was that intentional or accidental? Also where ya been? I was wondering when you would show up.

Just returning your call. 

My goal is coalescence and homogenisation of all points of view, but it’s no fun unless I can play in esoteric mode.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Gaslighting can be attempted, but it rarely ever succeeds with people who are supremely confident about their meaning creating capacity (your ability to make sense of things/knowledge/interpretation/comprehension). And I am not saying an OTHER cannot succeed at either. I AM saying if you take complete authority over your ability to make sense of things the odds someone could effectively pull the wool over your eyes.....is ZERO if you never give your authority awa

True, and if you  a 105 kg professional mma fighter, you're unlikely to be bullied by your high school classmates. so it's the victim's fault for bullying

[Lila9]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

My gosh....you know what? I'm just going to block you because from my biased POV you are a troll. Troll confirmed and blocked. Have a nice day.

I didn't even try to troll you lol you really took it too far.

All I did was genuinely sharing my thoughts, or biases if you wish, no offense.

But whatever ?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Lila9

[integral]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

True, and if you  a 105 kg professional mma fighter, you're unlikely to be bullied by your high school classmates. so it's the victim's fault for bullying

Yes train and become so mentally flexible that bulling is experienced/interpreted as true loves first kiss. Obviously. Why would you not do this training? This conversation is about growing up, nothing else. 

This conversation has nothing to do with victim shaming, blame or pointing the fault finger.

Edited November 18, 2022 by integral

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, integral said:

Yes train and become so mentally flexible that bulling is experienced/interpreted as true loves first kiss. Obviously. Why would you not do this training? This conversation is about growing up, nothing else. 

This conversation has nothing to do with victim shaming, blame or pointing the fault finger.

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

 

Agree, you could also be so enlightened that you would be happy in autchwitz and you would see art and beauty in the crematoriums of jewish children. And what do we want to express with it? that at an absolute level everything is love? that is clear

[integral]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Agree, you could also be so enlightened that you would be happy in autchwitz and you would see art and beauty in the crematoriums of jewish children. And what do we want to express with it? that at an absolute level everything is love? that is clear

The issue with this is your taking a useful point and cherry picking an extreme example that makes it look ridiculous. Then claiming the extreme is equivalent to the norm.

Do things to optimize your life like avoiding unfavourable life circumstances. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by integral

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, integral said:

The issue with this is your taking a useful point and cherry picking an extreme example that makes it look ridiculous. Then claiming the extreme is equivalent to the norm.

Do things to optimize your life life like avoiding unfavourable life circumstances. 

Not agree. Here it's saying that gaslighting is not real, and I give examples to show that from that point of view, nothing is real. They are extreme so that it can be seen more clearly. If you mix the relative with the absolute, there is only one result: demagogy

[Thought Art]

@Lila9 He’s just trolling himself. Trolling doesn’t exist. That’s just ego and maya ?

Edited November 18, 2022 by Thought Art

[Lila9]

@Thought Art ?

[Thought Art]

@Razard86 People still get gaslit. You can explain all the ways to avoid getting gaslit but. Happens. It can also happen in group discussions and effect the interpretation of others around you. It’s not solely a one on one happening either. Even if I know someone is trying to gaslight me and don’t let them change my understanding… it can still be used to manipulate and throw off a conversation. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, integral said:

 

it's normal for razard to think that there is no gaslighting, because he uses gaslighting it to win the arguments (he doesn't want to get to the truth, he wants to win, and everything is a discussion if you don't submit yourself to him). In addition, he also uses: demagoguery, intimidation, mockery, ridicule, speaking louder than the other, putting himself in a situation of superiority, and if none of that works...he blocks you! Yeah!!

Edited November 18, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[CultivateLove]

6 hours ago, Razard86 said:

1. I know what the original term means but all you just showed....was lying.

As I suspected from the very beginning, this is just you making a fool of yourself for not being able for whatever reason to make basic distinctions.

You're basically making as silly of an argument as there is only one type of apple in the world, while in reality there are many types of apples in the world, varying in shapes, sizes, sourness, sweetness, juiciness etc.

You can live in a world with the distinctive capability of a 5 year old, but don't be making the argument that you're somehow right in doing so.

I didn't even read the rest of your reply to me, this is all I need to know. As far as I'm concerned, this case is closed.

Edited November 18, 2022 by CultivateLove