What is Leo's main shtick really about? Psychonautics vs. Spirituality

[Carl-Richard]

Now that this thread was revived for some reason, just before this happened, I ran across this video by Terrence McKenna (one the aforementioned representatives of the psychonaut approach — arguably the main figurehead, or at least one of the pioneers), and he basically nails the distinction I've been trying to make here in the first 2 minutes of this video. If you understand what he is saying, it's virtually certain that you also understand my point:

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Now that this thread was revived for some reason, just before this happened, I ran across this video by Terrence McKenna (one the aforementioned representatives of the psychonaut approach — arguably the main figurehead, or at least one of the pioneers), and he absolutely nails the distinction I've been trying to make here in the first 2 minutes of this video. If you understand what he is saying, it's virtually certain that you understand my point:

 

If you want to live a "moral life," psychedelics will probably not contribute much to that.

If you define the spiritual quest as the quest for truth (which I find quite reasonable as well), psychedelics will contribute a lot to that.

Also, how can you be truly moral, without knowing your absolute nature? It's a charade, an act really.

 

I can only make the same point I always make, which is to just take the best of both worlds and run with it.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Also, how can you be truly moral, without knowing your absolute nature? It's a charade, an act really.

Your true nature is "self-transforming elf machines from hyperspace, kicking down your front door and rotating all four tires on your after-death vehicle and also checking the radiator"?

 

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I can only make the same point I always make, which is to just take the best of both worlds and run with it.

Does that mean do 100 butt trips of 5-MeO-DMT?

[Nilsi]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Your true nature is "self-transforming elf machines from hyperspace, kicking down your front door and rotating all four tires on your after-death vehicle and also checking the radiator"?

 

Does that mean do 100 butt trips of 5-MeO-DMT?

It's one thing to know you're on planet earth and another to actually go travel around the world and explore it for yourself. That's all that anyone is saying.

[RickyFitts]

Every time I hear Terrence McKenna talk, I just think he sounds like a nasal, self-satisfied douche.

I know that's tangential, but I had to get it off my chest.

[Jodistrict]

From what I have read, I don’t believe Terence McKenna has ever had a spiritual experience on psychedelics or anywhere else.  He keeps talking about his elves which is just a creation of his own imagination.  He then goes on to speculate that the elves in his imagination may actually be real, thus projecting his private experience onto reality.   He is a very “in the head” person and always stays in the head even under an altered state.   In my own experience, I have found that people react radically differently to psychedelics, which are neutral tools that reveal something about one’s own mind.

[Breakingthewall]

26 minutes ago, RickyFitts said:

Every time I hear Terrence McKenna talk, I just think he sounds like a nasal, self-satisfied douche.

I know that's tangential, but I had to get it off my chest.

???

[Carl-Richard]

52 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

From what I have read, I don’t believe Terence McKenna has ever had a spiritual experience on psychedelics or anywhere else.  He keeps talking about his elves which is just a creation of his own imagination.  He then goes on to speculate that the elves in his imagination may actually be real, thus projecting his private experience onto reality.   He is a very “in the head” person and always stays in the head even under an altered state.   In my own experience, I have found that people react radically differently to psychedelics, which are neutral tools that reveal something about one’s own mind.

Self-transforming elves, backflipping mice — potayto potahto.

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, RickyFitts said:

Every time I hear Terrence McKenna talk, I just think he sounds like a nasal, self-satisfied douche.

I know that's tangential, but I had to get it off my chest.

The nasal quality is part of being in the head.  It's like a head that just happens to have a body attached.  

[nuwu]

On 06/10/2022 at 10:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

The final Awakening is so Absolute that it leaves you Alone forever. You are so infinitely conscious that no conscious being can ever exist outside yourself. And you know this Absolutely. It's not a guess.

I can't accept this. This notion spawns insane fears in me, nonetheless all of which make sense. I kind of hope you are wrong about everything, or that it doesn't take into account the latest "infinity of Gods/Aliens" realization. Why am I the only avatar who seems bothered by such absolute misfortune? I don't understand. I really don't. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if civilizations were designed as collective matrices of hallucinogenic denial for this purpose, including their spiritual inconsistencies. Supporting this fate is unfathomable for a simple being who accidentally existed for simple silly reasons.

Please share opium, or some positive outlooks about this. I can't into consciousness.

aaaaa[*repeated infinite times]...

On 28/09/2022 at 5:15 PM, Leo Gura said:

absolute illusion

This terminology would benefit from more explanations. Do you mean this particular reality is a bit like the mathematical intersection between the set of all qualias and the set of all structures allowing the mind to trick itself? I mean, it can't be exactly that way since awakening and its shareable teachings seem to be possibilities.

Edited December 23, 2022 by nuwu

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Now that this thread was revived for some reason, just before this happened, I ran across this video by Terrence McKenna (one the aforementioned representatives of the psychonaut approach — arguably the main figurehead, or at least one of the pioneers), and he absolutely nails the distinction I've been trying to make here in the first 2 minutes of this video. If you understand what he is saying, it's virtually certain that you understand my point:

 

   That's synchronicity, synching in your chronically viewing insidious spiritual hotties, ties to Sin City, inciting black and white thinking, to me stylish denial; you a needy sycophantic frantic fan for that Pokimane Pikachu, what you get for being WAY TO CHOOSY. Sorry, you snooze you lose, I know, real SHOCKING.  (Only Fans SUCKS LOLZ) 

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

From what I have read, I don’t believe Terence McKenna has ever had a spiritual experience on psychedelics or anywhere else.  He keeps talking about his elves which is just a creation of his own imagination.  He then goes on to speculate that the elves in his imagination may actually be real, thus projecting his private experience onto reality.   He is a very “in the head” person and always stays in the head even under an altered state.   In my own experience, I have found that people react radically differently to psychedelics, which are neutral tools that reveal something about one’s own mind.

This is the same nonsense rationale that people were using to dismiss Schmachtenberger's spiritual development for years "hE iS tAlKiNg AbOuT cOnFiDeNcE iNtErVaLs AnD bAyEsIaN pRoBaBiLiTy."

Edited December 23, 2022 by Nilsi

[Alex_R]

49 minutes ago, nuwu said:

I can't accept this. This notion spawns insane fears in me, nonetheless all of which make sense. I kind of hope you are wrong about everything, or that it doesn't take into account the latest "infinity of Gods/Aliens" realization. Why am I the only avatar who seems bothered by such absolute misfortune? I don't understand. I really don't. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if civilizations were designed as collective matrices of hallucinogenic denial for this purpose, including their spiritual inconsistencies. Supporting this fate is unfathomable for a simple being who accidentally existed for simple silly reasons.

I am still confused because That statement contradicts the last video of Leo "Infinity of Gods Awakening"

 

[Alex_R]

51 minutes ago, nuwu said:

I can't accept this. This notion spawns insane fears in me, nonetheless all of which make sense. I kind of hope you are wrong about everything, or that it doesn't take into account the latest "infinity of Gods/Aliens" realization. Why am I the only avatar who seems bothered by such absolute misfortune? I don't understand. I really don't. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if civilizations were designed as collective matrices of hallucinogenic denial for this purpose, including their spiritual inconsistencies. Supporting this fate is unfathomable for a simple being who accidentally existed for simple silly reasons.

Please share opium, or some positive outlooks about this. I can't into consciousness.

 

I am still confused because That statement contradicts the last video of Leo "Infinity of Gods Awakening"

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

I am still confused because That statement contradicts the last video of Leo "Infinity of Gods Awakening"

That video is probably the only one of Leo that I don't recommend watching. I might rewatch it to see if I've missed something.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

6 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

I am still confused because That statement contradicts the last video of Leo "Infinity of Gods Awakening"

Because you don't understand what God is

[Alex_R]

I was very happy thinking that i was the only one consciousness in existence but that video of infinity of Gods broke all my dreams out, i hate it

[Nilsi]

6 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

I was very happy thinking that i was the only one consciousness in existence but that video of infinity of Gods broke all my dreams out, i hate it

That's exactly why we talk about psychedelics - so you don't sabotage yourself by misunderstanding a nuanced metaphysical point.

[vladorion]

4 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

I was very happy thinking that i was the only one consciousness in existence but that video of infinity of Gods broke all my dreams out, i hate it

You're just adopting Leo's beliefs / sense of reality.

[Alex_R]

But Solipsism is true or not? When i take high doses of LSD it is very obvious to me that i am the only thing in reality but then i found Leo Gura saying that there are more independent consciousness out there

 

If Solipsism is True, infinity of Gods is False

 

I don't know what to do.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Alex_R