Why leo says no one is awake

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Then it's impossible to awaken, with or without a guru, because if you're not awake, you're by definition constructing dualities, e.g. that there is even a truth to be found.

Your not conscious that you are constructing these other gurus that's the point.  You are imagining they are real, and then they become real.  And then you look to them for the Truth.   It's self deception at its finest, on full display.  

Edited September 27, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Your not conscious that you are constructing these other gurus that's the point.  You are imagining they are real, and then they become real.  And then you look to them for the Truth.  

Why is that a problem when looking for truth in itself is also a fundamental misunderstanding? After all, that is why Neo-Advaita exists. Why are you against Neo-Advaita? Why is doing any spiritual practice necessary when that only perpetuates the illusion?

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's not stale. It's just simple and ubiquitous. If you have a desire to be original and push the envelope of human cognition, you can do that outside of spirituality. The "state > growth" position is why it's better described as psychonautics.

Sure, he seems to lump some things together, that don't necessarily have to go together. You could call it holistic though and I think there is a strong argument for not being so anal about keeping these things separate.

[Inliytened1]

38 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why is that a problem when looking for truth in itself is also a fundamental misunderstanding? After all, that is why Neo-Advaita exists. Why are you against Neo-Advaita? Why is doing any spiritual practice necessary when that only perpetuates the illusion?

When they become real to you and then you look to them for Truth, you are deceiving yourself that Truth can manifest from second order.  Truth is first order but self deception will trap you into thinking that second order, or concept, is Truth.  And then you don't actually awake.  @Consilience understands the difference but most will not.   Either way ultimately you must become your own Master.  After which everything else just becomes, well, second order.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Sincerity]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The "state > integration" position is why it's better described as psychonautics.

I think an important point is that Leo is carving a new path on the go and we don't see the "end results" yet. I mean we don't see his integration yet but it's not like it's not gonna happen. Maybe it will take 5, 10 or 30 more years and THEN it's right to judge whether integration really is lacking in people taking the psychedelic path.

My point is that after a long time it COULD turn out that his integration is even deeper than that of a person that has meditated for this same amount of time. We don't know. 

I think that a person who tripped every week for let's say 5 years and put effort into integrating the experiences and contemplation COULD be better off than a person who meditated every day for let's say 4 hours for 5 years. (note: I don't know if this is a fair comparison. If you feel like it's wrong you can suggest a better one) 

AND obviously it is worth mentioning that meditation vs psychedelics is not a binary choice, there can be a balance right. But in what I wrote above I wanted to kinda compare them separately 

[Inliytened1]

This song sums it up

 

[Someone here]

A Guru is not required for enlightenment.

Enlightenment is a flight of the alone to the alone. Your inner-self is your true Guru. Therfore seek inside , not out side. Live in meditation, moment to moment, without regretting for the past and worrying for the future.

Enlightenment can never be attained by preachings or blessings of somebody else.

We have to dive deep to discover our true self.

Pls try it. It is an experiential truth.

[amanen]

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

When they become real to you and then you look to them for Truth, you are deceiving yourself that Truth can manifest from second order.  Truth is first order but self deception will trap you into thinking that second order, or concept, is Truth.  And then you don't actually awake.  @Consilience understands the difference but most will not.   Either way ultimately you must become your own Master.  After which everything else just becomes, well, second order.

This. It doesn't matter how many people would tell one they are God, or anything involving enlightenment, unless if it becomes an experientially realized truth. If you start believing what others say, then you still haven't understood the thing. It's just going to be a bunch of beliefs and concepts, having nothing to do with actual realization. Words cannot transmit even a single experience, so how difficult it is to transmit something like actual realization of truth?

Not to mention when there is only one who can actually realize it - ultimately it has to come from within.

The idea of first and second order is extremely useful.

Edited September 27, 2022 by amanen

[Leo Gura]

None of these people who you think are awake are actually Awake.

Nobody on this forum is Awake.

Buddhism is not Awakening.

There is not a single person on this forum who understands God.

The only thing on this planet that understands God, is Me

No amount of meditation will ever Awaken you. Anyone on this forum who claims to be Awake or even understand what Awakening is, is lost within a dream.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[RMQualtrough]

Stop watching those cucked out videos.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

None of these people who you think are awake are actually Awake.

Nobody on this forum is Awake.

Buddhism is not Awakening.

There is not a single person on this forum who understands God.

The only thing on this planet that understands God, is Me

 

[Leo Gura]

There is not a single person on this forum who understands what God is.

I am here to set you straight.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[amanen]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

None of these people who you think are awake are actually Awake.

Nobody on this forum is Awake.

Buddhism is not Awakening.

There is not a single person on this forum who understands God.

Never mind, I get what you are saying, since you edited the original message.

Edited September 27, 2022 by amanen

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

None of these people who you think are awake are actually Awake.

Nobody on this forum is Awake.

Buddhism is not Awakening.

There is not a single person on this forum who understands God.

I guess you are including yourself on that ?

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, amanen said:

What perspective are you saying that from?

The only perspective there is: THE ABSOLUTE

Quote

Nobody else is conscious so nobody can be actually awake?

The only thing that can ever Awaken is you.

Nobody else has ever Awoken. It all starts and ends with You.

Quote

Understanding God is not possible?

Oh, it's possible. I did it

Quote

Or only possible in some other state where you wouldn't be able to be on a forum?

Oh, I'm on this forum

Quote

Or has your definition of being Awake gone further from before? What would be closer to being Awake in your view, then?

There exists such a thing as ABSOLUTE AWAKENING. And not a single spiritual teacher on this planet has experienced it except for me and Peter Ralston.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I guess you are including yourself on that ?

Nope.

I understand God completely. Because I'm it.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Consilience]

@Leo Gura on what basis do you include Ralston on this list? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Consilience said:

@Leo Gura on what basis do you include Ralston on this list? 

Because he's the only one on this planet besides myself who is Awake.

[Someone here]

So Leo, No one you will ever meet and certainly not people Online who claim to be spiritually awakened. The average person cannot imagine the consciousness of the saints. They live lives of devotion and communion with God in meditation and are not interested in worldly pursuits except as service to humanity. St. Francis and St. Theresa of Avila were very highly advanced, but still not fully enlightened. However ,I think Ramakrishna ,siddhartha gautama(Buddha ) were fully enlightened. 

[Gesundheit2]

@Leo Gura It's like you want to be misunderstood and criticized. Are you by any chance a masochist? You know that the newbie seekers are a lot more than the advanced seekers even within your audience, and yet you still keep doubling-down on this silly idea of sovereignty as if you don't know that it will confuse people more than help them awaken. You want to throw off all teachers from their pedestal and put yourself up there instead. Nice move. Or should people simply dismiss you and return to their gurus?