Am I In A Cult?

[Osaid]

I will prefix this by saying, I don't have much work experience. I have only ever worked as a cashier before this, so I am not too sure what is "standard" or "normal".

I recently got into a sales job working B2B. It is entirely commission-based. We sell a real tangible product, not some pyramid scheme type thing, so it is legit in some sense. The job itself has good potential for money and it comes with a lot of valuable skills and life lessons to learn. It has made me much more confident for sure. My brother started working there years ago and he has been there for a while now. He told me a position had opened, and I wanted to try it out so here I am. The people that work here are absolutely amazing at what they do, I have seen them in action, they deal with massive businesses regularly. I do enjoy a lot of aspects of the job, talking to businesses, helping them out with products, learning how different businesses operate, having a team of people to talk with, getting valuable business advice, etc.

However, there are quite a few aspects that make me uneasy, and I don't know if I am overreacting or if I'm simply trying to avoid doing the hard work. The way this company operates is unlike anything I've ever seen before. It is very strict and personal. I will do my best to explain.

Everyday we wake up at about 4am, non-negotiable. Everyone here is constantly taking naps. It's basically impossible to not be sleep-deprived here, but the boss partakes in it too, which is why I say he seems genuine to an extent, he really does believe what he teaches us, but that doesn't disprove him being a cult leader. The boss says spiritual platitudes all the time, but with a stage orange tint to it. He is very deep in the Napoleon Hill/Earl Nightingale/Grant Cardone type of ideology, if that makes sense. The stage orange spiritual stuff. He commands everything that everyone does. Everyone here is basically a mini-version of him at this point. And there is a very tense energy in the company. At any moment, one of the employees could shout at you or change personalities if you do one thing wrong, even if you guys were getting along perfectly well a few minutes ago. They will threaten to hit you sometimes or make your life "a living hell", but I am unsure how much of that is hyperbolic. They call it discipline, and that if you don't obey you are being disrespectful and ungrateful. I remember asking one time why we were changing our schedule out of curiosity, and one of them got mad at me and told me that I shouldn't ask questions because of my position on the hierarchy. They talk about hierarchies, and having to respect people who are above you, and not asking questions about things and just doing them, as soldiers do in war. They will sometimes tell me to do things that make no logical sense, just for the sake of following orders and following a hierarchy, I guess to make me more "disciplined" and "obedient". They treat me like a kid and behave as if they are my parents or babysitters, that is the dynamic here.

I think that the boss genuinely thinks he is doing what is best, I don't think that he is purposefully trying to manipulate or lie to us, but as Leo said cult leaders don't necessarily realize they are leading a cult. He talks quite often about humiliating people who have previously left the organization, and that our lives will turn to hell if we leave. He has even talked about tapping someone's phone in the organization to make sure they aren't selling the company out, which seems very extreme to me. The turnover rate is very high. And then the boss will make fun of the people who leave. It seems clear to me that the organization runs off of fear.

The boss himself is quite vocal and explicit. He has very controversial views he spouts, the mindset is "if you don't like it then leave" which I can kind of respect. 

He also talks about disconnecting from family and friends because they often do not serve us or support us, which actually has some truth to it. A lot of what he says has truth sprinkled into it, which is why I am conflicted. He constantly says the phrase "if you're not with us you're against us".

He also talks about how if someone asks us about the company we should always sell them on the company and make it look good, or else we are being ungrateful and poor. He even said he would fire us if we didn't put a good word in.

Everyone here treats the boss like a God. Everytime he says or commands something, they say "yes sir". They see him as the ultimate role model. We have team meetings, and after every statement he says he asks "does that make sense?" to which everyone responds in unison "yes sir". It almost seems like a fake question, I have never heard respond "no" to that and I guarantee if someone did they would be mad about it. This guy says some pseudo-spiritual stuff that doesn't really make sense a lot of times and everyone just responds "yes sir" to it. It strikes me as off. They are absolutely enamoured with how "successful" and "spiritual" he is.

They also talk a lot about "bullying" in order to fix their behaviour. They talk about "breaking people down and then building them back up", which seems very brainwashy to me.

They are very judgemental and poke at lots of tiny things they don't agree with in a very idiosyncratic way, because they find it to be "weird" or "poor" or "disrespectful" behaviour. Like for example, they might out you on just sitting differently.

I understand that cult dynamics can be very nuanced. A lot of the points here are mentioned in Leo's video about cults and I felt a lot of it lined up. It may not even be a "cult" per say, but maybe a better label would be "toxic workplace". Most workplaces are toxic to some degree. I'm pushing through because I see lots of valuable skills and money here. There is also another member here who got his brother in, and Leo said cults use family members to recruit. They are planning to have me move into their house to live with them, so that I wont be influenced by my parents anymore as I am living with them currently. Very little time is spent outside of work, every day is basically just spent working. I'm getting a bit worried cause I feel like I am slowly being sucked into their hive mind and way of looking at things, losing my individuality and motivation to leave and think for myself. The longer I stay here the more cemented I feel, as different relationships and habits are being built.

I will also add that the boss' personal ideology is basically forced onto everyone, and if you say no to what he asks you will basically be fired immediately, or at least he says so. It is very cutthroat, and he says it is necessary if you want to be disciplined and successful.

Am I just overthinking this? I just need some fresh perspectives on this.

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Osaid

[thepixelmonk]

I don't know about "cult" but it sounds like an absolute horrible place to work, 100% not an environment I would ever put myself in.

[ZzzleepingBear]

Sounds like a cult to me. And if not a cult, a very toxic work environment. 

Just because a group of people are succesful in what they do, doesn't mean that it directly translate to that what they do is in a healthy and balanced way. The cost of doing something can outweigh the monetary gain.

It is one thing to try to live up to a certain standard in one's work, something is to be expected there. But what is expected of you needs to be limited to the work itself in every aspect, and not exceed into your personal life unless you choose that for yourself.

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Everyday we wake up at about 4am, non-negotiable.

If it's non-negotiable, then it means that your work has started. And you should get paid from that moment you clock in, and that seems to be 4am for you then. Just as any employer expect to see their workers at the job at a fixed time where the rules are such.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

They also talk a lot about "bullying" in order to fix their behaviour. They talk about "breaking people down and then building them back up", which seems very brainwashy to me.

That is because it is brainwashing.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

There is also another member here who got his brother in, and Leo said cults use family members to recruit. They are planning to have me move into their house to live with them, so that I wont be influenced by my parents anymore as I am living with them currently.

To recommend friends and family is not uncommon in general. But living with your co-workers is anything but a normal behaviour unless you get into a romantic relationship or consider them such close friends outside of work that you want to live with them. Nobody should have a say in how you spend your free-time off work.

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

They are planning to have me move into their house to live with them

YOU should be planning where you live. They can invite you to live with them, and if you happen to say "no thank you". They must accept that and respect you just as much as before asking.

Edited September 19, 2022 by ZzzleepingBear

[King Merk]

Man, that’s a fucking trip.

Definitely a cult. Sure a business one focused on making money rather than your traditional spiritual cult but a cult none the less.

Sounds like a soul crushing environment to be apart of.

There are plenty more companies out there you can develop your sales skills and make money at.

Get out while you can. 

[OBEler]

Its a cult!! GET OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE 

 

You will be more and more dependend on this cult over time. You will not be normal, you left all your friends, live with the cult members. Going back to society will be as hard as like you are a war Veteran. Your sleep deprivation makes you dull and you cannot think clear anymore. 

The fear they brainwash into you will prevent you from leaving the company. 

So just leave and look for a New Job. Right now you think looking out for a New Job is more stressfull than leaving. But think longterm. Go out now! 

 

 

 

[Osaid]

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Just because a group of people are succesful in what they do, doesn't mean that it directly translate to that what they do is in a healthy and balanced way. The cost of doing something can outweigh the monetary gain.

It is one thing to try to live up to a certain standard in one's work, something is to be expected there. But what is expected of you needs to be limited to the work itself in every aspect, and not exceed into your personal life unless you choose that for yourself.

@ZzzleepingBear  It is definitely not balanced, they would argue that is necessary to not be balanced in order to be successful and financially free and they would probably list a bunch of people who went through hell to become successful. Becoming successful and rich is a personal thing. What do you think of this line of reasoning?

 

The goal here is to become millionares and financially free, and that will take a lot of sacrifices.

 

@Leo Gura  I would appreciate if you had the time to chime in here as well, I think your video on cults really woke me up as to what might be going on here

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Its a cult!! GET OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE 

 

Definitely a cult.

@King Merk @OBEler What brings you to such definite conclusions? What seems obvious to you might not be so obvious to me right now, so I would like to hear some elaboration.

[OBEler]

@Osaid please read again what I wrote, I clearly said whats going on. 

Dependency! You will get more and more depended from this cult.not monetary but psychological. 

You will have nothing left in your life but this cult in some month or years. 

 

[ZzzleepingBear]

34 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Becoming successful and rich is a personal thing. What do you think of this line of reasoning?

It sure is, and that's why your buisness is no one elses buisness. So actual work and free-time are two seperate things, and should be treated as such at all time.

Ask yourself this, if successful means that you need to be out of balance. Then what solution does money bring to you when you have built a life based on being out of balance? Should you work yourself sick for the purpouse to be able to buy more expensive medicin to a self-inflicted sickness?

 

48 minutes ago, Osaid said:

The goal here is to become millionares and financially free, and that will take a lot of sacrifices.

Anyone you work for, will reach richness because you and others are working for them. So you must be able to make the distinction between how you will become rich vs how your boss will become rich since it's not a even playing field in the slightest. You wont work yourself richer than or even close to the money that those who deside your work for you do, it's simple as that.

Unless you have a paycheck that is exceptionally higher than the average job on the market already, then don't expect to become millionare from working at that place no matter what anyone try to tell you.

It is one thing to have a good work ethic, and is another thing to have people around you taking advantage of that work ethic on your behalf.

[Thought Art]

Leave when you can

[Thought Art]

Leave when you can

[gettoefl]

when you work for me, i own you while you are working

i fund your life, you do my bidding

you don't think, you go through my hoops

don't like it, no skin off my nose

[BartekD]

At first I though that it was just an underdeveloped blue/low orange work place but bro that shit sounds like a straight up cult

[Osaid]

@ZzzleepingBear

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sure is, and that's why your buisness is no one elses buisness. So actual work and free-time are two seperate things, and should be treated as such at all time.

I guess what you're saying is that I shouldn't delegate my personal success and financial stability to a group of stage red/orange people that I don't agree with? I guess that makes sense.

Quote

 

Ask yourself this, if successful means that you need to be out of balance. Then what solution does money bring to you when you have built a life based on being out of balance? Should you work yourself sick for the purpouse to be able to buy more expensive medicin to a self-inflicted sickness?

 

The idea is to go through an unbalanced lifestyle and then reap the rewards of a balanced one at the end.

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Anyone you work for, will reach richness because you and others are working for them. So you must be able to make the distinction between how you will become rich vs how your boss will become rich since it's not a even playing field in the slightest. You wont work yourself richer than or even close to the money that those who deside your work for you do, it's simple as that.

Good point, so in the end I guess the dependency on the boss and the group is just too high. He does talk about us pursuing our own careers in the end once we become rich, though.

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 you have a paycheck that is exceptionally higher than the average job on the market already, then don't expect to become millionare from working at that place no matter what anyone try to tell you.

For reference, a guy who has been here for years makes about 300 dollars a day. You know how commision is, it can be big or low some days.

[King Merk]

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

What brings you to such definite conclusions? What seems obvious to you might not be so obvious to me right now, so I would like to hear some elaboration.

Watch Leo’s cult video again. You’re checking off all the boxes…

• An encouraged dependency on the cult
• cutting off friends/family
• An inability to question what’s going on
• extremely controlling & judgmental environment 
• The emphasis on obedience 
• A leader who people look at like he’s a “god” 
• The forcing of the cult ideology down you throat

This is much worse than a toxic environment bro. It’s a straight cult and you need to GET OUT.

You wouldn’t have started this thread if you didn’t already know this intuitively.

[Osaid]

@King Merk I will rewatch it for sure. Everytime I watch it it seems like my mind makes excuses about how it might actually not be a cult.

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You wouldn’t have started this thread if you didn’t already know this intuitively.

True, it's not everyday you suspect something of being a cult.

Transitioning outta here is gonna be icky but it may be necessary.

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

@ZzzleepingBear

For reference, a guy who has been here for years makes about 300 dollars a day. You know how commision is, it can be big or low some days.

@Osaid Yeah there is always the one normal guy in the cult who earns a lot of money "so if he can, you will too!". Thats the idea behind it. You will have very low Chance to get that much money. 

Did you just hear the story or did you saw how he got his 300 dollar into his pocket per day? Even that I would question. It is just a Blender in the cult to make you believe working hard there will pay off one day (hint: it will not) 

Let me guess, you are young and full of energy. You never had much money or a good job before in your life and you are ready to work your ass off to prove that you are worth of something because you are insecure. You dont know what to do with your life, you have few friends and no girlfriend and you need a father figure. This is the perfect new member for a cult!

Just get out of this fast!!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by OBEler

[Osaid]

@OBEler 

Quote

 Yeah there is always the one normal guy in the cult who earns a lot of money "so if he can, you will too!". Thats the idea behind it. You will have very low Chance to get that much money. 

Did you just hear the story or did you saw how he got his 300 dollar into his pocket per day? Even that I would question. It is just a Blender in the cult to make you believe working hard there will pay off one day (hint: it will not) 

I have seen it, yes. Like I said, these guys are genuinely phenomenal salesmen. Probably better than most. I've seen them in action. And this guy has grown a lot as a person and built a lot of valuable skills, I know cause it's my brother. Commision-based pay is known for being turbulent in the beginning, though.

Quote

Let me guess, you are young and full of energy. You never had much money or a good job before in your life and you are ready to work your ass off to prove that you are worth of something because you are insecure. You dont know what to do with your life, you have few friends and no girlfriend. This is the perfect new member for a cult!

This much is true. Everyone here basically came from the same background. Single mother, no father figure. Socially awkward. Very young. most people here are around their 20s. I agree this makes us very impressionable, especially when the boss himself is very good at selling himself to people.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Osaid

[ZzzleepingBear]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

I guess what you're saying is that I shouldn't delegate my personal success and financial stability to a group of stage red/orange people that I don't agree with? I guess that makes sense.

Pretty much. When it comes to your private life, you can take advice but not orders. Work and your personal finances are two separate things.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

The idea is to go through an unbalanced lifestyle and then reap the rewards of a balanced one at the end.

It's nothing wrong with working hard, and balance can be quite a flimsy notion.  Maybe health is a better word here. Invest in your health aswell, because that is something not even money will fully recover in most cases. Health is the greatest wealth, and as cliche as it sounds, it's stil true.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Good point, so in the end I guess the dependency on the boss and the group is just too high. He does talk about us pursuing our own careers in the end once we become rich, though.

Your boss will likely tell you anything you want to hear as long as it result in you working for him.

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

For reference, a guy who has been here for years makes about 300 dollars a day. You know how commision is, it can be big or low some days.

It can be big and it can be low, and that is why you always need to look at what you might earn in a month/year depending on what line of work you're in. Seasonal work have high profit months and low profit months for example.

 

 

[OBEler]

@Osaid

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

@ZzzleepingBear

For reference, a guy who has been here for years makes about 300 dollars a day. You know how commision is, it can be big or low some days.

@Osaid it is common that family members suck you into cult, too. Please consider that your brother has his own agenda. And that he gets Promotion for any new working member.  he needs to convince New members and the easiest one is telling them how much money he earns.but this could be pure fiction. 

 

I know it will already hard right now to leave this company for you because of your brother and it seems nice but you need to move on and quit as fast as possible. Every Day you give them your energy. Spend it elsewhere you are more worth than this. Growing personally in a sales Job is possible on any company

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by OBEler

[Osaid]

@OBEler @ZzzleepingBear

Alright, I will probably leave in a week or two once we move back to where my house is, I think it will be the least turbulent that way. Thanks. I will update on what happens. I personally don't see myself living in such an environment for the next few years anyways, even if it does make me a lot of money.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Osaid