Understanding Russia & Putin

[Fleetinglife]

26 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

@Fleetinglife

Do you honestly feel that separation will cause less or more suffering.

I ask because I have the teal swan video on separation in my mind, its only a small one:
 

I understand that separation goes both ways. So please don't take this as a need to defend your perspective. I understand it. I am merely asking if you think setting up a 2nd global powerblock, or a decoupling of all major economies, is the best answer we can come up with.

I think, of course it will, since it already did as you see from all the hysteria you can see shared and posted massively online each day by useful conductors of such content, but some countries, in my view, need to first solidify and integrate and become self-confident and sulf-sufficient in their input of their own contributions to the world and in their own cultures that achieve such an outcome independently, and not by superficial imitation of western ways of doing things and values (of course more broadly speaking) and non-deep adoption and actual embodiment of them in their own authentic, original way. 

Separation needs to come where there exists too much a symbiotic, parasitic ally dependent, one side over favoring relationship, and not on actually made on a completely voluntary, cooperative basis - this separation will hurt the West as well, have no doubt about that, it doesn't benefit it completely, as well since it was sneakily, the one side, using it's financial imperialistic coercive power imposition and overall more cultural influence benefiting more from it being set up this way that up until now did, more at the expense of the other parties forced to be involved for their survival and prosperity benefit, who was too much on the scale of being over favoured in this relationship, and scales will be now slightly turn again to a more favourable equilibrium, even it perhaps it seems from the other sides viewpoint, perspective and development that things have regressed in the opposite, lower, before direction and back clashed due to the contratrianism of the other side, not maybe fully grasping, understanding and recognising, that's how general strives towards for independence starts, one point for them from ther standpoint, when one side generally wants to be and feel themselves, not completely influenced and determined by them in their choices and decisions, hence forth to be more free from their perspective, than from others tell them freedom actually is from their standpoint ?

BTW I appreciate and thank you for sharing Teals video, seems like an interesting watch on the meta-physics of this very process and phenomenona , I will check it out later ?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[BlueOak]

@Fleetinglife

I agree. Thank you, I see that as part of a pattern in people too. There is one thing you miss to make this universal. Countries need to become more self sufficient, everywhere, perhaps especially those that were acting the most imperialist of all.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by BlueOak

[Scholar]

21 minutes ago, zurew said:

Do you think that, because of the oil? Because if thats the argument, Russia don't need to worry about it any time soon. The shift for renewable energy totally will take a lot of time, also a lot of money too. Right know oil is one of the best energy sources in the world and we use oil for other stuff too. Oil will be even more valuable as time goes on because we have about 40 years amount of left.

Well, Putin just accelerated that process because he showed the world Russia is unreliable, and it is a mistake to be dependent on them. What you call soon is relative aswell, we are talking about centuries here. I am not sure if we will be using nearly as much oil in a hundred years.

Consider that the more expensive oil gets, the more likely we will be to use other sources of energy. That will only accelerate the transition.

[Vrubel]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't be so sure about that. Russia and China are building an alliance to rival the West. Of course it won't be as powerful as the West, but it can still survive for a long time.

Is there a chance of Russia ultimately just integrating with the west? Like the people in Belarus want it more and more, so many young Russians as well, think Navalny and the whole opposition movement. Putin is old and can't live forever, who knows what will happen after.

[Fleetinglife]

57 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

if most countries around russia are scared/distrustful of russia and want to be in a defence alliance against it

then russia is mostly to blame that it couldn't build a trustful relationship with those countries imo

obviously there are also other reasons like monetary that some countries want closer relations to the "west" 

So? Ukraine is not the only country that exists and their people are not the only ones in this world with such concerns, that trump all other's countries concerns that are militarily helped, assisted and protected by in some part by the country Ukraine currently has a security concern with aka Russia, and such feelings towards and with such problems with larger more powerful neighbours. Cuba and Venezuela distrust the US influence and plans for integrating their economies and people completely overnight of the set-up rules of their system that mostly benefits them, and not all their people. 

But that doesn't excuse Cuba and Venezuela to blame the US for all their corruption and instability problems that exists within their countries due to US economic and financial warfare and siege upon their countries for both not liking their domestic economic policies and the way their governments conduct them and do things regarding that there, and as an excuse to start agreeing on working on putting wholesale Chinese and Russian missiles at some point in the future there that might threaten US military security, defense and influence in that region to operate more relaxed and freely and somehow use that to upend US's policy towards their countries completely in their favour, not taking into account some other global market interests in them and economic and political stability for other countries in the near region or proximity. 

BTW western monetary way of doing things are not clear as day method of doing things leading to prosperity and economic development of a country in all scenarios, it Ukraine it is more probable due to it's proximity to the EU, and the streams and influences of Western finance in te country in general, but in Cuba and Venezuela those things are at this point of time not clear as day and one day may eventually opt or welcome a more Chinese way of doing things in order to actually develop and build up their economies from the actual base we're further step-by-step more economic integration element to the west may actually over a period of time actually prosper, and not jump into the shark filled waters of the free market with no solid economic base and development prior, to avoid getting totally economically and financially raped in them, straight away, they have learned the USSR's bitter pill lesson even if those countries, Cuba and Venezuela, are not straight planned economies, but more hybrid possessing some markets elements in some sectors of the economy, but regardless need to build up their solid economic base and infrastructure in order to have a fair chance of not botching up that step-by-step, slow and steady transition. 

Same with Ukraine EU Integration and unfettered NATO presence in their countries cannot be done overnight and imposed ad hoc as must from outside, it needs to be done in a slowly steady consulatation environment with other actors who are also concerned parties, for their own strategic interest and place and economic influence in the country, in such a transition. 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[BlueOak]

Further by this speakers Great Power Bias, and not acknowledging Ukraine's perspective in this he fails to see how Russia relates to Ukraine as well. I am watching Kyle's perspective now, and he brings up that Russia had a long list of grievances with Ukraine. So its not just unhelpful for understanding Ukraine, or nuance, its unhelpful for understanding NATO and Russia too. This world is built on how we relate to each other. The same goes with Georgia too.

If anything what has been lacking in all of this is understanding how countries relate to one another, and how their collective identities create their emotional reaction.

Edited March 6, 2022 by BlueOak

[hello1234]

1 minute ago, BlueOak said:

Further by this speakers Great Power Bias, and not acknowledging Ukraine's perspective in this he fails to see how Russia relates to Ukraine as well. I am watching Kyle's perspective now, and he brings up that Russia had a long list of grievances with Ukraine. So its not just unhelpful for understanding Ukraine, or nuance, its unhelpful for understanding NATO and Russia too. This world is built on how we relate to each other. The same goes with Georgia too.

If anything what has been lacking in all of this is understanding how countries relate to one another.

I just want to say that the notion of Ukrainian and Russian “historical and cultural ties” is a LIE! The century long russian propaganda.

This so called “tie” is genocide, violence, and blood of Ukrainian people, centuries of it.

To say that Ukraine and Russia have “historical and cultural ties” is to say Jews and Nazi Germany have “historical and cultural ties”

Anyone who learns Ukrainian history can see centuries of russian abuse over Ukraine.

[BlueOak]

2 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

I just want to say that the notion of Ukrainian and Russian “historical and cultural ties” is a LIE! The century long russian propaganda.

This so called “tie” is genocide, violence, and blood of Ukrainian people, centuries of it.

To say that Ukraine and Russia have “historical and cultural ties” is to say Jews and Nazi Germany have “historical and cultural ties”

Anyone who learns Ukrainian history can see centuries of russian abuse over Ukraine.

And that would never be known unless the Ukrainian perspective was also given in his analysis. Do you see what I mean? Without Ukraine's perspective on how Ukraine relates to Russia, we can never see the full picture or why the decisions were made.

Edited March 6, 2022 by BlueOak

[Fleetinglife]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

It's not an accident that it's the most corrupt countries that align with Russia.

In terms of evolution, Russia is lagging behind, and the rest of the world is responding accordingly.

Well so say, also, currently "the Dollar Scholars or Schollar Dollars" ?, it seems also partially influenced by their current position in the world where they are at from their subjective standpoint, for both Russia and China and countries aligned with them, we shall see how it unfolds, if they are lagging behind, or merely developing more and integrating and solidifying more into their current natural stage of development for their eventual transition into the West ones, but maybe this time on a more equal, voluntaristic and less co-dependent basis at near future point in time ?

Also btw, some countries and their people overall being more corrupt than others doesn't make them from a geo-strategic or geo-political standpoint less relevant and worth less than the less corrupt countries and invalidate their national interests, unorthodox current determined possible paths forward for economic stability, growth development and prosperity, and their security and survival interests towards those "more uncorrupted, cleaner countries" that, you can bet, very much sometimes enforce policies in a way to help maintain, take advantage upon, benefit, exploit and imperialize upon the corrupt countries corruption for their own gain and benefiting from it in fact existing in the short term ?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[zurew]

56 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Consider that the more expensive oil gets, the more likely we will be to use other sources of energy. That will only accelerate the transition.

Problem here is that to create oil we need millions of years. Yes the more expensive the oil gets, the less likely we want to use it as main energy. However, if you study this problem, you will find,that even to make certain kind of other energy sources we need oil for that. For example we use oil for mining, we need oil to gather oil, we use oil for fuels, we use oil for lot of things that can't be replaced with anything else (one of the largest one is plastic)

above you can see just a portion of stuff that we use oil for. We even need to use a lot of oil just to make renewable energy. On an economic level oil is much more valuable compare to other energy sources. Almost no company is incentivised to change to renewable energy, because it would cost so much money for them that they won't shift soon.

Yes we can see the electric car movement, and that will be good, but it will just buy a little bit more time and not solve the problem overall.

56 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What you call soon is relative aswell, we are talking about centuries here.

We definetly don't talk about centuries here, because as i have just said it's gonna be a huge problem for basically the whole world if we don't pay enough attention to this problem. If you google it, it states, that we have about 47 years of oil left (at current consumption levels and excluding unproven reserves).

Even to continue economic growth we need more and more energy, we just can't keep it up with just using renewables, we need a lot of oil as well. So we will probably see economic growth stopping at one point in the future, or even declining. GDP growth and energy use is related and goes hand in hand. If we will be forced to use less energy, decline will be inevitable. 

With energy problems will come a lot of other problem.

 

So to go back to the original point, i don't see that Russia will have any problem not being able to sell their oil.

Edited March 6, 2022 by zurew

[Yarco]

I hate when the media (and society at large) labels Putin as "insane."

Maybe they can't stomach the fact that a sane person can act this way and need to separate themselves from it. But I think it devalues the fact that most sane people are capable of doing evil things. 90% of your neighbors would have "just followed orders" during WWII Germany as well.

The odd thing about believing someone doing bad things being insane (including a friend or family member) is that it means they have less / no free will of their own. In that sense, they are blameless. Do people realize this contradiction?

[hello1234]

21 minutes ago, Yarco said:

I hate when the media (and society at large) labels Putin as "insane."

Maybe they can't stomach the fact that a sane person can act this way and need to separate themselves from it. But I think it devalues the fact that most sane people are capable of doing evil things. 90% of your neighbors would have "just followed orders" during WWII Germany as well.

The odd thing about believing someone doing bad things being insane (including a friend or family member) is that it means they have less / no free will of their own. In that sense, they are blameless. Do people realize this contradiction?

It is not the media, do you know anything about psychology of mental disorders? Do you understand that there is a legit clinical disorder called “antisocial PD/psychopathy”? Have you researched the disorder? I am sick and tired of this ignorance. You can’t dismiss the whole field of psychology and the analyses done by phD clinicians in the field of psychology and psychiatry…..

If people are clinically disordered, they must be removed from the positions of power.   

Edited March 6, 2022 by hello1234

[PurpleTree]

does it really matter if putin is clinically insane or not

[hello1234]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

does it really matter if putin is clinically insane or not

It does, because then you understand better what you’re dealing with. 

[Yarco]

41 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

I just want to say that the notion of Ukrainian and Russian “historical and cultural ties” is a LIE! The century long russian propaganda.

If you do a CTRL+F on the Wikipedia page for Ukraine, the word Russia appears 208 times  Definitely no connection there.

42 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

To say that Ukraine and Russia have “historical and cultural ties” is to say Jews and Nazi Germany have “historical and cultural ties”

Uh, yeah, that's how it works. There are extremely strong historical ties between Jews and Nazi Germany???? lmao. Your historical and cultural ties don't have to be positive.

14 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

I am sick and tired of this ignorance.

 Everyone on the forum except you is ignorant, we get it.

[hello1234]

5 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Everyone on the forum except you is ignorant, we get it.

Lol, I love it how you pick and choose the stuff I say just to have something to dismiss my argument

FYI, when people talk about Ukraine and Russia ties, they mean it in a positive way “but we are brother countries ?” 

Edited March 6, 2022 by hello1234

[zurew]

@hello1234 Do we have any psychological evidence for Putin being a sociopath or psychopath? I am not talking about his actions ,but about a real diagnosis. The reason why i ask is because it is very different when some psychologist assume, that someone has this or that, and when there is a real diagnosis of something. If we don't have any, then this claim that he is doing what he is doing is because he is a psychopath will be just one more perspective among many that tries to describe the reasons behind  his behaviour.

[PurpleTree]

obviously not representative but good to hear these young folks

 

[Leo Gura]

Another good video:

 

[Preety_India]

21 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

People there just need dictators/tsars/kings - if you think about it, it's rather odd. Name me one more country in the world, that is this stubborn, and seemingly unable of changing it's political system.

 

I think the UK is similar to this, they love their monarch, no matter how many scandals the monarchy is involved in. 

I personally do not see a problem with Czar-ship or dictatorship as long as people are benefitting from it. 

These days I'm increasingly against democracy, not that I actively favor a dictatorship as I'm aware of the trouble, yet, democracy has huge holes in it and America is a prime example of these holes, it basically causes a bipartisan system difficult to control, there is more homogeneity in a dictatorship at least, since dissent is discouraged, it's like this forum, if you have too much democracy here, even trolls will get to survive and proliferate unattended, you'd need some degree of tyranny( although it's leadership not tyranny but it will appear like tyranny) in order to maintain peace by throwing out the trolls. 

Similarly positive dictators will be able to sort out the gold from the dirt much better than democracies and this can stop internal chaos. 

Democracy gives an illusion of goodness. But ignorance is always bliss. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Preety_India