The fine line between enlightenment and mental instability

[Mips]

My daughter have been through bouts of intense solipsism in the past, not as a freeing enlightenment experience but a frightening, disorientating episode alongside intense hallucinations. She suffered with this for a long time at the age of 14-15, devastated that her parents or anyone else were non-existent and experiencing disassociation and derealisation. None of it was good & we've had a terrible three year battle to get her back to some form of mental stability. She's finally in recovery, thankfully.

I'm interested in what separates this type of seemingly spontaneous, experience from truly peaceful, steady, wakeful solipsism? Of course, I understand that preparation, depth of understanding etc. play a part, but would like to understand more deeply.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Mips said:

I'm interested in what separates this type of seemingly spontaneous, experience from truly peaceful, steady, wakeful solipsism?

Well, in a true awakening you would realize that your daughter and her solipsism is something you imagined to keep yourself asleep

[Zeroguy]

More conscious=More stable in every sense.

You are dreaming forever,how can you be asleep.

[WelcometoReality]

@Mips Ultimately solipsism and enlightenment are different things. Solipsism is the belief that all you experience is your senses and you can't know whether anyone else exists or not so you are alone.

Enlightenment is the realization that there is no separate self, no you that is having experiences. Reality wakes up through you. With it comes peace and non-existence. 

[Mips]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, in a true awakening you would realize that your daughter and her solipsism is something you imagined to keep yourself asleep

I like this response. But on the more mundane level I'd like my daughter to be well. I mean there must be some value to her being well & happy. I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

[Zeroguy]

@WelcometoReality Enlightenment is actual .

You are actual Infinite Love forever.

You are God.

[mandyjw]

Negative emotions indicate that your interpretation of reality is false. 

Enlightenment is the realization YOU are not the entity you think you are. You are not a thought. So when one believes thoughts about themselves or reality as a whole and interprets this in a way that is limited it will result in negative emotion. Solipsism is the attempt of the mind to grasp or own enlightenment. It feels horrific to do this. It's like trying to grasp onto a burning flame to own it. Only letting go will suffice, and will also allow the flame the oxygen it needs to burn on its own. You cannot understand deeper, think more to get out. You are already out. You can let go of the thoughts that hurt, then relax, and allow true insight to surface. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/aligning-thought-with-feeling

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/spheres

[WelcometoReality]

Just now, Zeroguy said:

@WelcometoReality Enlightenment is actual .

You are actual Infinite Love forever.

You are God.

Either that has been realized or it hasn't.

Telling someone that they're are God can make some very dangerous egos.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Mips said:

But on the more mundane level I'd like my daughter to be well.

Of course, I get it.

Quote

I mean there must be some value to her being well & happy.

Only in your mind.

But I get it.

Quote

I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

Well, what's to that is that she's a central part of your dream.

- - - - - -

To answer your question in a practical way, the difference is that there are many unusual and strange states of consciousness which could even be mystical, but they are not awakening or God-realization proper. And also, her ego-mind might be struggling to properly make sense of and integrate genuine spiritual insights. Or her awakenings and spiritual insights may be very lopsided and incomplete.

The hallmark of the deepest awakenings is the overwhelming, intense recognition of Love, Beauty, and Perfection. Without these the awakening is incomplete and can feel negative.

If your awakening is not the happiest moment of your life, then you haven't really awoken. You should be dying from joy. Awakening is literally heaven.

[Gili Trawangan]

42 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Solipsism is the attempt of the mind to grasp or own enlightenment. It feels horrific to do this.

This.

[Matthew85]

45 minutes ago, Mips said:

I wouldn't desert her or ditch her as a result of her ultimately not being real - there must be something to that, no?

@Mips I would caution against thinking of her not being real until you validate that for yourself through direct experience. In the most expanded states of awareness I have reached it was my experience that everything in the universe is consciousness/awareness. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Matthew85

[Mips]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, I get it.

Only in your mind.

But I get it.

Well, what's to that is that she's a central part of your dream.

- - - - - -

To answer your question in a practical way, the difference is that there are many unusual and strange states of consciousness which could even be mystical, but they are not awakening or God-realization proper. And also, her ego-mind might be struggling to properly make sense of and integrate genuine spiritual insights. Or her awakenings and spiritual insights may be very lopsided and incomplete.

The hallmark of the deepest awakenings is the overwhelming, intense recognition of Love, Beauty, and Perfection. Without these the awakening is incomplete and can feel negative.

If your awakening is not the happiest moment of your life, then you haven't really awoken. You should be dying from joy. Awakening is literally heaven.

Thanks, much appreciated ?

[Gesundheit2]

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

Lol are you not going to elaborate?

[Leo Gura]

Morality contradicts itself, as any finite system must.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Morality contradicts itself, as any finite system must.

A gem.  

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In practice, solipsism contradicts morality. But (everyone) feel free to do mental gymnastics around this truth.

Morality is held within Oneness and is finite.  So it's not that Oneness contradicts morality it is that morality must collapse into Oneness

[Gesundheit2]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Lol are you not going to elaborate?

Well for starters, solipsism doesn't make clear distinctions between right and wrong since everything is relative to (and for) the solipsist. At best, you can have a pragmatic sense of morality, but not a fundamental sense (which is not necessarily a bad or even false thing, imo). In other words, you don't really care about others (because they don't exist in the first place), but you can act like you do care because you might perceive it as beneficial to you.

 

[Carl-Richard]

44 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

At best, you can have a pragmatic sense of morality, but not a fundamental sense (which is not necessarily a bad or even false thing, imo).

So you conceded your entire point  

[Gesundheit2]

18 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

So you conceded your entire point  

My point was that morality and solipsism are contradictory and can't co-exist together as they have fundamentally antithetical axioms that create dissonance. Morality is based on the belief that others are sure to exist, while solipsism is based on the belief that others are not sure to exist. Morality assumes fundamental guidelines for human behaviors and it assumes right and wrong (which can change and evolve). Solipsism doesn't assume any of that, because everything is relative and extremely fluid.

So, no. I did not concede my point. I only entertained a possibility where solipsism might look like morality without actually being it.