Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[puporing]

@Raptorsin7 I think it's good you're sharing your experience with others who may be in vulnerable places in their life looking for something, despite the possible backlash, which can be really difficult (victim blaming) and possibly make you gaslight yourself even. 

Vulnerable people need to know what can be out there, there are people who take advantage of this.  

[Vido]

I literally had a encounter with him where he kept asking or telling me that I didn't exist

I do feel it might be justified if he was not a mod anymore, banning him would be an overkill

 

[Raptorsin7]

13 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Raptorsin7 I think it's good you're sharing your experience with others who may be in vulnerable places in their life looking for something, despite the possible backlash, which can be really difficult (victim blaming) and possibly make you gaslight yourself even. 

Vulnerable people need to know what can be out there, there are people who take advantage of this.  

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I have been gaslit out of being critical of Nahm in the past.

But I'm in a different place now and someone needs to stand up to the constant gaslighting and deflection.

I welcome anyone to point out my dishonesty. And I will in turn point out yours (:

Edited February 23, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I was taken to the cleaners once by a fake guru and it was a valuable lesson.  I learned that I am 100 percent responsible for my own suffering and there is no “authority” out there that can save me.  The fakes can only take people who are in the marketplace looking for someone to take them.  If you are using the word “authority” and trying to figure out who is enlightened and who is not enlightened (a silly, meaningless task), then you are already on the hamster wheel running one’s little legs faster and faster to get to nowhere.  
 

There are definitely people out there with genuine insight and can help you.

But developing your intuition and learning to be discerning takes a lot of work.

Some of the wisest people I speak with now, I used to think were weird/unconscious 

[The0Self]

Quote

...his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening.

Fair enough.

Though even for that endeavor, having someone around who can be as authentically direct as Nahm is perhaps a good thing, and hard to come by.

[Jodistrict]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

There are definitely people out there with genuine insight and can help you.

But developing your intuition and learning to be discerning takes a lot of work.

Some of the wisest people I speak with now, I used to think were weird/unconscious 

Neo-Advaita seems to be a treasure trove of sound bites for scammers.  Why not just assemble yourself a bag of chinese fortune cookies containg Neo-Advaita sound bites, and you will have yourself a low cost neo-advaita guru?  No need to pay thousands of dollars.  I hate to say that because I respect Hindu philosophy.  But Western culture makes a mess of everything.

[Ananta]

16 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The reason you feel the compulsion to check what I'm saying is likely because you lack integrity and ethics, and so empathize with dishonest folks like Nahm 

No, it's because you are saying you take responsibility, but you aren't. You paid him thousands in donations, BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO! You believed he would end your suffering. That was a story you told yourself. 

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Jodistrict said:

Neo-Advaita seems to be a treasure trove of sound bites for scammers.  Why not just assemble yourself a bag of chinese fortune cookies containg Neo-Advaita sound bites, and you will have yourself a low cost neo-advaita guru?  No need to pay thousands of dollars.  I hate to say that because I respect Hindu philosophy.  But Western culture makes a mess of everything.

Neo-Advaita is incredibly rife with delusion, but that's very different from the direct nondual communication of a human which no longer feels like a separate person -- which is incredibly rare. It is what Neo-Advaita aims to replicate but does so from an illusory intentional perspective.

[Happy Lizard]

47 minutes ago, Loba said:

What is causing that kind of atmosphere, and how/what would you do to help facilitate change where people can feel heard to talk to someone upfront about an issue?  Because I am sure, since Nahm wanted to do teaching as a career that if he knew that this many people were having a hard time understanding him, he could change his approach - but since only a few spoke up, and many were okay with him - that isn't giving someone correct feedback to change.

that's not the case unfortunately, I urge you to check his comments and the responses to them. Most of the time people would be saying something similar to this -> ' huh? what? but this is not a fair point ? ' or ' but you do that too, this isn't helpful !'. in contrast Leo is literarily facing criticism form trolls all the time, but he does care and have changed some of his ways, And also him or any other person would give you a respond like : ' thinks for the feed back, I'll try to work on this' or gives some sort of information for you to digest. I have only seen Nahm correcting others when they ask a question, but I also could be pushing too hard on this front. maybe there's a wealth of post where he genuinely helped and changed people's lives, that I'm not taking into account, which would be a side that I'm neglecting.  
 

47 minutes ago, Loba said:

I also believe that because he can't speak for himself here - well he could if he wanted to, but most likely won't - that we have to be cautious about the facts and make sure we stick to them so that the reputation he earns is at least as fair as possible, and that involves seeing things from all angles.

I agree, which is why I don't want to leave too many comments about this, I'm only doing so to discuss your points. 

I will say this again. it doesn't matter to me to criticize Nahm that much, I'm just pointing out what I observed, if it's too late or too disrespectful, I'm sorry everyone I truly don't mean any ill will. 


EDIT: I just thought this should be added to this thread, from 13:18 - 16:27
 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[Happy Lizard]

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

I'll have to go through and check the different threads and see what the commenters posted, because just going over his posts alone without context on his profile - I was honestly able to follow along pretty well with what he was saying just by the posts as a standalone - he was trying to get everyone back to the basics, it seems - and it looks like he was trying to indirectly point out some areas where he felt Leo needed

you can search his name (and move a number of pages because of the resent posts) to see what others' interactions with him were like. and also, like I said, when he is not talking to you it sound like truth/a pointer/what we all have heard form spiritual teachers. but (my experience) when he talks to you, it's very different, it's like the video I posted -check my last edit-  and when you question that you don't get anywhere with him.

also, how is he not overly self promoting like some people claim? it's very subtle -> "check the dreamborad *a link to his website* " or " indeed... it's all in the emotional scale *link to website*" . like ... no one can see how subtle this was form our standpoint now? I certainly didn't, but I also just started reading the guidelines carefully just recently.
 

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

you should have every right to say what you see and how you feel about it irregardless of if we disagree or not.  I don't think we do, there are just some things that I have not looked into in order to fully form my own opinion, and it's good that you said something now, I suppose.

thank you! I did actually feel afraid to voice this out, but our conversation is so far been constructive for me.

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

Hmmmn, that is probably one of the subtle issues then, that should be brought to light - why do so many members here not feel heard?
How did it happen that so many people felt the same way, few addressed it, and it took something like this for people to feel safe saying something?

check last edit  

I'm not sure why myself, but also some element of it that everyone was playing along thinking 'ok this dude gets a pass, he's enlightened right? ok then checks out!' at least that was me, which is an Idiotic way of thinking, but also very subtle to see sometimes.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[Raptorsin7]

1 hour ago, Ananta said:

No, it's because you are saying you take responsibility, but you aren't. You paid him thousands in donations, BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO! You believed he would end your suffering. That was a story you told yourself. 

I was a delusional seeker, seeking guidance from someone who represented themselves as an authority and healing and happiness.

Where is the responsibility of the teacher, who by definition is in s position of authority?

It's not surprising you don't understand this. But I would never take advantage of someone the way nahm did, even back then I couldn't imagine leading someone like that which really baffles me 

[Reciprocality]

It is almost like this thread could need a mod, oh wait.

[Raptorsin7]

6 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I could be wrong again..but I don't feel he was purposely swindling.  He may have been a spiritual "coo coo" in a sense..but that was just him.  He probably honestly thought he could give you liberation or awakening or peace of mind..whatever.. in other words it came from a place of love..but it seems he's not playing with a full deck.  Again I don't want to pounce on him I just want to mention that.  He didn't seem like a guy purposely out to scam you..he was way too out there for something like that.  However that said..you knew him better and you could be right.

It was unconscious. If he knew better he would have done better.

It's akin to malicious negligence. It didn't come from love, unless you want to say everything anyone does comes from love in which case if someone murders your entire family we could also they acted from love.

He is not enlightened, but represented himself as an authority on spirituality which is my biggest issue with his approach and teaching. 

Fundamentally, he isn't a spiritual authority, and yet presented himself as such (he probably believes he is an authority), and then compounded it incompetence and unethical conduct in a student-guru relationship. I've yet to see anyone dispute these points, or Nahm ever acknowledge the truth of these claims. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Nahm will likely leave a trail of people like me who don't have the understanding or will to speak out. 

I bet most of you were very surprised about how many people came out and said they also felt invalidated, harmed, etc by Nahm's conduct

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It's akin to malicious negligence.

What do you mean by this? 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

What do you mean by this? 

He wasn't willing and knowingly setting out to do harm to people, but his approach is devoid of integrity, ethics, genuine understanding, and many more facets such that he was unconsciously acting in a way that harmed people. The twisted part is his approach on the surface seemed like he was just a good guy trying to help everyone out, but when you look at the results of his approach you see that there is a stark disconnect between the self image he displays and how people are receiving and being impact by his advice.

If no one took Nahm seriously there would be no issue, he would be another delusional seeker who thinks he's a teacher. But it's the illusion of authority and the way he portrayed himself to others that creates a dangerous situation

[Preety_India]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

He wasn't willing and knowingly setting out to do harm to people, but his approach is devoid of integrity, ethics, genuine understanding, and many more facets such that he was unconsciously acting in a way that harmed people. The twisted part is his approach on the surface seemed like he was just a good guy trying to help everyone out, but when you look at the results of his approach you see that there is a stark disconnect between the self image he displays and how people are receiving and being impact by his advice.

If no one took Nahm seriously there would be no issue, he would be another delusional seeker who thinks he's a teacher. But it's the illusion of authority and the way he portrayed himself to others that creates a dangerous situation

What do you think in your mind would have been the case if someone else here  would have done the same thing what he did? 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

What do you think in your mind would have been the case if someone else here  would have done the same thing what he did? 

What do you mean? I don't understand

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What do you mean? I don't understand

If it wasn't Nahm but some regular member would have done the same thing to you, what would you think would have been the reaction of the forum? In my opinion I think it would have been taken strictly, because it's Nahm so... you get what I mean. I kinda smell double standards. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Preety_India

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

If it wasn't Nahm but some regular member would have done the same thing to you, what would you think would have been the reaction of the forum? In my opinion I think it would have been taken strictly, because it's Nahm so... you get what I mean. 

 

Yeah that's exactly the issue. Nahm has a cult following on the forum who will gaslight you and shift blame whenever he is criticized. Look through these threads they are littered everywhere.

It's why it's so difficult to bring light to these kinds of situations. Look at how much i've been attacked. 

But it's okay, this is nothing to me

[puporing]

@Raptorsin7 @Preety_India Also I feel the scale of this matters, don't know the details of how 'donations' worked, but it's one thing to pay a few sessions and realize it's not working for you (say hundreds of dollars), vs something pretty astronomical imo. That is pretty traumatizing in and of itself.