What's with older guys (10+ yrs older) approaching much younger women?

[Gesundheit2]

@Loba Nice to see someone finally benefiting from the things we keep repeating here all the time instead of resisting and denying them. That's how women should generally regard our contributions here as men.

[Loba]

@Federico del pueblo You just want to argue to be right, basically.  You don't want to look at the genuine issue, is that so many women are abused by your gender, treated like dirt, used, manipulated, murdered... WAY more often than my gender does to yours.  My gender is about community and love, and yours is predicated basically on shit that humans should have evolved out of thousands of years ago.  Aggressive, manipulative, and only capable of seeing women as an object.  And of course, you have all these experiences from different women to back it up.

I don't need to check my biases, you need to check why women develop them in the first place, it's not a chicken or egg kind of thing, you're basically arguing against someone who was abused by your gender - why should women trust abusers?  They shouldn't... and I hate to say it, but most men are abusive, exploitative, ect. 

Or don't, let the woman learn that in her own way through trial and error, instead of having other women just tell the fucking truth of the matter - men don't view women properly, of course a woman develops biases over time, you can't screen each and every person, but when you go in with good intentions and people screw you over, and you learn why and where that comes from - it's too widespread to be a bias.

[something_else]

24 minutes ago, Loba said:

which is that men don't treat or view women properly

How should men treat women?

Many men follow the advice women give about how they want to be treated and then they end up friend zoned and alone

It can be extremely confusing. I can’t understand what it’s like to be a woman but you also don’t understand what it’s like to be a man. And the impression I get is that you think the fault lies entirely with men

There are horrible realities about men, you’re absolutely right about that. However don’t pretend women are perfect either

[Loba]

@Gesundheit2 At least I'm not telling her lies like, "they love you for your personality, heart and soul."

 I am benefitting from the things that are repeating here - I've learned so much, I will literally 'never' allow a man near me again if he has interest.
I didn't actually know how bad men were until I spent a few years on this forum, had a few relationships, an absent father, let's not forget the molestation and "friend" trying to pimp me out behind my back.  Oh yeah, men are WONDERFUL creatures.  We should be singing their praises.

[Loba]

@something_else Women are far from perfect, I am for instance, a woman who is a very flawed person and knows this.
Women want a man that can protect them from the world and let them explore the world with you, too.  That's what they want.  Most women are still girls, because we aren't raised to become full women yet, and so women seek men who know how to lead more often than not, but lead with heart and soul and not their dick.  We want to be able to let go of control.  The world forces us to be so controlling of our environment, ourselves, who we are, we have to adapt to become whatever society wants of us - that all women want is to be able to drop all of that and be her feminine self, which is free flowing, open, girly, and fun.  But most men don't know how to open a woman up.  And the ones that do usually have "learned" this skill - it isn't natural, what comes from the heart, for those who learn it comes from their head instead.  We don't even know how to open up ourselves, much of the time.  Instead, the masculine does whatever it can to close a woman off, they view her as a body and not a soul, or as something that can be used as a means to an end.  Femininity is ruined, and men did it.  So we have to learn to be women ourselves - and once we do, we are free.  From all men.
 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Loba

[somegirl]

1 hour ago, Username said:

This is one reason why I'm not interested in females my age. If you had bad experiences you become bitter. Than instead of looking at me how I really am, you assume who I am based on your previous experiences.

Well I'm working on not being bitter. But first step to change is admitting that you are.

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, Loba said:

@something_else Women are far from perfect, I am for instance, a woman who is a very flawed person and knows this.
Women want a man that can protect them from the world and let them explore the world with you, too.  That's what they want.  Most women are still girls, because we aren't raised to become full women yet, and so women seek men who know how to lead more often than not, but lead with heart and soul and not their dick.  We want to be able to let go of control.  The world forces us to be so controlling of our environment, ourselves, who we are, we have to adapt to become whatever society wants of us - that all women want is to be able to drop all of that and be her feminine self, which is free flowing, open, girly, and fun.  But most men don't know how to open a woman up.  And the ones that do usually have "learned" this skill - it isn't natural, what comes from the heart, for those who learn it comes from their head instead.  We don't even know how to open up ourselves, much of the time.  Instead, the masculine does whatever it can to close a woman off, they view her as a body and not a soul, or as something that can be used as a means to an end.  Femininity is ruined, and men did it.  So we have to learn to be women ourselves - and once we do, we are free.  From all men.
 

Why do you have such an aversion to dudes who have learned the skill? You can learn to express masculinity from your heart

I agree with pretty much every word you said bar that part

Masculinity is pretty much entirely defined by the experiences it has gone through in life. It’s not really something that a man just ‘has’ naturally

[K Ghoul]

@Loba

I must agree that a man will be tempted to exploit any weaknesses they see you might have and do what’s best for him. But abusers usually don’t just break into your house out of nowhere and start abusing you. It’s a process of how we build a relationship with them, allowing those into our inner circles who shouldn’t be allowed in the first place. The only checks and balances that I found to be effective in managing this is 1. he loves you and protecting you from getting hurt is his first priority. How to get to that point is a whole other story and we can’t get into it here now and I don’t even have it fully figured out myself 2. Protection. Father. Brother/brothers. Friends(male), not friend-zoned secret admirers but actual friends. He shouldn’t be able to mistreat you and not get a phone call at the very least or even a visit from some shady unknown characters in black leather coats who came to have a man talk. 

 

Every time my relationship with a man failed to develop into a healthy dynamic, I blame myself. We, as women, really have that much power.. we just don’t know how to use it 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by K Ghoul

[Loba]

@something_else You don't have your masculine core as just a part of you?  Women usually have this as just the very core of who they are.  It can be developed for sure, but most of it is just an instinctual free flowing kind of way of being.

@K Ghoul We should learn how to use it.  Maybe that is key - that women inherently have this innate power, but we just don't know how to activate it, or perhaps don't know when it is being activated.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Loba

[Tristan12]

5 minutes ago, Loba said:

@something_else Instead, the masculine does whatever it can to close a woman off, they view her as a body and not a soul, or as something that can be used as a means to an end.  Femininity is ruined, and men did it.  So we have to learn to be women ourselves - and once we do, we are free.  From all men.
 

For a lot of men, their masculinity was destroyed and suppressed by mothers who were hurt by men and then taught their sons to not be dominant and to basically bow down to women. This destroys their masculine essence and makes them weak, and as a result a lot of men will lash out in toxic ways such as what you have described. A real man who has healthy masculinity, grounded in genuine self-love will not be toxic and destructive towards femininity.

I don't think its fair to say that men have destroyed women, that men are to blame and women are the victims. I think both sides are at fault, and I can have compassion for the reasoning of both sides. Its important to note that a healthy masculinity and femininity will be supportive of each other and will compliment and synergize with each other well. This is the natural healthy state, how its meant to be. 

I can totally empathize with you and what you've been through, and i'm sure its harder than I can understand as a man to have been treated the way you have been by men, and i'm sorry you had to go through that, but I still don't think its fair to basically say that all men are inherently destructive towards women and to say that women are at no fault and play no piece in it themselves (such as what I described in the first paragraph).

[K Ghoul]

1 minute ago, Loba said:

 

We should learn how to use it.  Maybe that is key - that women inherently have this innate power, but we just don't know how to activate it, or perhaps don't know when it is being activated.

we should   ideally, our mothers would have passed down that knowledge to us. But how many of us have been lucky to have been born to a mother who knows herself. Hell, my mother was getting beatings from my father on the regular basis when she was pregnant with me haha I should have just been aborted, but here I am. “We gotta catch it on our own…trains hard. roads rough.”

[Tristan12]

9 minutes ago, something_else said:

Masculinity is pretty much entirely defined by the experiences it has gone through in life. It’s not really something that a man just ‘has’ naturally

Yes, femininity comes much more naturally as it is more of an open, receptive, being state. Masculinity is based on strength, leadership and doing, and as a result requires much more effort to learn and develop it. Long ago men would learn and develop their masculinity through the influence of other tribe members and other strong grounded men. That being said, when men don't get the masculine influence they need, which is especially common in today's society, they are left weak and out of alignment with their true essence, and of course that leads to toxicity. Men developing healthy masculinity will come from embracing and supporting masculinity, not demonizing it. Neither masculinity nor femininity are inherently bad or destructive. There are just healthy and unhealthy expressions of them.

[Federico del pueblo]

7 minutes ago, Loba said:

You just want to argue to be right, basically.

No I actually thought that I could potentially make you rethink certain things. But I'm not expecting anything.

9 minutes ago, Loba said:

You don't want to look at the genuine issue, is that so many women are abused by your gender, treated like dirt, used, manipulated, murdered... WAY more often than my gender does to yours.

I know of this.

Men definitely do many bad things. They have higher levels of aggression for sure. It's sad that many women get abused. If you say that men do this way more often than women then yeah, that makes a lot of sense if we're talking about physical aggression.

It's simply due to the physical strength advantage that men have (combined with higher levels of certain hormones). It's also smaller weaker men who get beaten up by stronger men more often.

This way or another there is no excuse for when a man is physically violent towards a woman, it's fucked up.

If 

17 minutes ago, Loba said:

My gender is about community and love

Not as much as you'd like to think. 

There are also many women manipulating and exploiting men and I don't know if you're willing to admit that too.

The ways of manipulation women do are just a bit different compared to what men do. Different games, often still sneakier ones.

21 minutes ago, Loba said:

you're basically arguing against someone who was abused by your gender - why should women trust abusers?

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know what kind of abuse we're talking about here.

Anyway if you now conclude that all men are abusers it's just still wrong.

Some men are horrible abusers, many men are manipulative to some extend (but so are many women), but there are also more than enough man who are not abusive.

I've been emotionally abused by some girls too, though I don't believe all women want to abuse me. I ascribe this to the fact that the women who abused me were just not mature enough yet and also insecure, so they had to play nasty games.

And I know that you probably will reject my next point with something like "yeah, that's because women were not allowed to do anything for so long" but let's see.

It's also men who have brought a lot of good things to this world, things from which you benefit on a daily basis.

It's 97% who build the infrastructure you're using.

Men who work freaking hard, dirty jobs to maintain this entire system, who crawl around in the shit of the canalisations to clean and maintain the system so everybody's shit can keep flowing, including the shit of 20 something year old girls who are sitting up there in the Starbucks café complaining about how bad "all men" are while some man has to clean or repair the stinky sewers about 20 ft below the Starbucks. 

Men who invented the internet, men who invented cars, who build houses, skyscrapers, power plants, take away the fucking trash.

These men who are considered "low status" who can't even think about finding a decent woman because they immediately would disregard them.

If it wasn't for men you'd still be sitting in the mud of some Forrest trying to collect some berries or whatever. But I know that there's gonna be even more stuff to devalue even these last things I just wrote.

So anyway, I won't try to change your views anymore. I wish you the best.

[Matthew85]

@somegirl Yes, awareness is the first step.

The more I was able to let go of judgments I held, the more life opened up and led me to having all kinds of unique experiences.

[Preety_India]

I do not agree with some of the views on this thread. 

Plus I must admit that it's horribly biased against men. This is not okay. 

I chose a wrong man and he is my ex. Bad men happened to me too. 

But I do not generalize all men as bad. This is absolutely wrong and ridiculous. 

The thing is manipulation and exploitation is not dependent on age.  manipulative. 

You mean young guys don't manipulate? Of course they do. This has less to do with age and more to do with the character of a person.. 

You're simply dealing with a manipulative toxic guy. If an older man can manipulate you, the same things could have been said by a younger man too. 

There is no need to portray old men as creepy. That's petty generalization and that's hurtful. 

Every old man is not a creep. Yes an extremely old man in his 60s wanting an extremely young woman might look sleazy. But a man older than you even by 10 years is not a huge deal. And it doesn't mean that he is automatically going to exploit a woman because of age difference. That's ridiculous. 

My dad was much older than my mom but he always cared for her, guided her, protected her and provided her all her life and did everything a great husband does.. Always by her side whenever she needed him. 

He did not exploit or manipulate her. He was the ultimate caring husband. 

This demonization of older men is ridiculous 

Your bad experience with an older man doesn't mean every woman out there had a bad experience with older men. 

This is not okay. It's generalization and demonization of older men  and the phrase "brutal truth" does not help your case. 

I also dated toxic men.. But that doesn't mean that all men are toxic?? 

If you are never meeting a good man, then probably rethink your dating strategy as a woman. 

All men aren't creepy and manipulative. Don't project your handful of bad experiences on the entire male population. 

Also take responsibility as a woman for your dating life. You being young is no excuse to date toxic men. 

I'm young too. I have dated toxic men as well. But I don't sit around complaining that all men are bad. 

I improved my areas of self esteem, looked into why I was attracting bad men in my life, took responsibility for my own dating choices and finally avoided men who can be bad for my health. 

Your dating life is your choice and responsibility as a woman. Of course anybody can manipulate you,irrespective of age or any other factor. The sooner you realize this the better it is for your dating life 

Having bad experience with the opposite gender is no reason or excuse to malign an entire gender, there are good men too. 

And if you just cannot ever get a good man, it's high time you investigate why you never attract them. 

Who you date as a woman is partially your fault as well. 

Don't project your bad experiences on an entire gender. 

Good men exist, period. 

And you need to woman up and take responsibility for your bad dating choices.

 

[Etherial Cat]

34 minutes ago, Loba said:

 

 I am benefitting from the things that are repeating here - I've learned so much, I will literally 'never' allow a man near me again if he has interest.
I didn't actually know how bad men were until I spent a few years on this forum

@Loba I am sorry for reading about the number of abuses you've been through.

This forum - and especially this dating section, is in my opinion full of inexperienced dudes, late bloomers and guys who had a bunch of difficult relationships with females and are bitter/resentful.

I don't find it representative of what can be found in the real world. The worst thing that you can do is to let these guys poison your mind and subscribe to their worldview. Because it is simply not true. While Leo is not an incel, he's subscribing to worldview that aren't so far off.

And his gravity pool and leadership turns this dating section into something that matches his worldview, attract similar individuals and turn off those who do not resonate with it.

[Etherial Cat]

@Tristan12

Damn, you've just earned yourself a new subscriber! Incredible wisdom for someone born in 2000!  When I was your age, my head was full of air. Luck you!

 

[Tristan12]

@Etherial Cat Thank you

[somegirl]

100th comment.

[Federico del pueblo]

2 minutes ago, somegirl said:

100th comment.

Your threads always explode like atomic bombs ?