Therapist and I have different views of goals

[soos_mite_ah]

Not sure what section this falls under so here goes nothing lol. 

First, a little background: 

I found myself relying on things like astrology and tarot to give myself a sense of certainty and predictability during the pandemic. While I don't believe in either completely, these do serve as a coping mechanism that helps me sleep at night. 

Also, there is this guy that I like. I have no intention on pursuing him for various reasons but I do think about him a lot and make up romantic scenarios in my head. I do this much more often than I care on admitting. I most definitely use the idea of him as a coping mechanism and whenever I feel down, I try to imagine him telling me exactly what I need to hear and cuddling next to him even though this is all technically me soothing myself and this is me incorporating positive self talk. 

 

I told my therapist about all of this and she more or less told me that none of these things are problematic and that I'm going about it in a healthy way. But I still feel like I'm using the idea of this guy, astrology, and tarot as these psychological safety blankets to get through my current life and I do not like that. I think my therapist is trying to point me towards the direction of accepting this somewhat embarrassing part of myself so that it's a non issue while I'm here feeling like she's encouraging behaviors that I'm trying to get rid of. 

Should I take my therapist's point of view and stop worrying about my weird coping mechanisms since they aren't harming me or other people? Or should I make an effort to get over my psychological safety blanket on my own? 

[Salvijus]

Tarot and astrology is pretty lame, you can drop them. Gay fantasies you'll just have you accept, there's nothing you can do about it ? 

I didn't give much thought into this, so it's better you don't take my advice seriously ??

Edited November 10, 2021 by Salvijus

[LordFall]

Unless you're going overboard with all these things, I think she's right.

What would dealing with it without coping mechanisms look like, just taking a deep breath and being okay all the time? 

Your fantasies about this guy don't seem too weird and outlandish. You're really just imagining a loving figure comforting you, we all do that in some ways. I do it with random cute girls in my life that I imagine myself dating in the near future and it gives me something to look forward to when dealing with tough times.

And my basic understanding of tarot and astrology also makes me think that you're fine there too. Isn't the basic idea of it that the universe isn't random, has your best interest at heart and you can use the cards/charts/moons to learn to read it and predict it? I'd say that's about aligned with the rest of what we study here.

Seems to me that your coping mechanisms aren't too intrusive and just based on painting yourself a promising vision of the future and a belief that life isn't out to crush you and that there is positive hope in the future.

That does seem healthy to me, find what works and what's reliable and aligns with your life, I don't think you should think of it any further than that.

 

 

[mandyjw]

In my opinion she is wise, because your own judging yourself for these things is perpetuating them. You could, if you wanted, choose something else, something to ADD rather than focusing on trying to remove the things that make you feel better. Like for example, (these are just my ideas, follow your own inspiration) pick up a good novel (romance, maybe?) or write one yourself, or start an art project or take an art class. 

[mandyjw]

17 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Tarot and astrology is pretty lame, you can drop them. Gay fantasies you'll just have you accept, there's nothing you can do about it ? 

I didn't give much thought into this, so it's better you don't take my advice seriously ??

 Disabled people and homosexuals are some of the most inspiring people I know, so I think your idea of "lame" and "gay" is just nonexistent. 

I mean DAMN. What would you do if you were free to be whatever you wanted? Nothing holding you back? No judgement. No shoulds? No chance of failure? 

I didn't give much thought into this, so it's better you don't take my advice seriously.

[Salvijus]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 Disabled people and homosexuals are some of the most inspiring people I know, so I think your idea of "lame" and "gay" is just nonexistent. 

I mean DAMN. What would you do if you were free to be whatever you wanted? Nothing holding you back? No judgement. No shoulds? No chance of failure? 

I didn't give much thought into this, so it's better you don't take my advice seriously.

Ahh ?

I didn't get any of it. But I sensed a lot of sarcasm or smth ? 

Sorry, if you care, try saying it again, maybe I'll reply something to you

?

 

[mandyjw]

@Salvijus Was just challenging your underlying assumptions that might have prompted you to use adjectives like "gay" and "lame" in a negative light and was pointing to the freedom that might be found in investigating what those were. 

Might sound shaming and holier than thou but that's not my intent at all.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by mandyjw

[Salvijus]

@mandyjw lol, I've never been so confused in my life before ?

I'll just say sorry for everything I did and let's just leave it at that, okey? ? 

Regards ?

[diamondpenguin]

@soos_mite_ah I think you should listen to your therapist, and accept the part of yourself that you are disgracing. Judging yourself will only cause you problems, embrace it no matter how weird you think it is. It is who you are, it will help you blossom to embrace who you are.

[Carl-Richard]

Quote

Therapist and I have different views of goals

Does your therapist know this?

[soos_mite_ah]

@Carl-Richard

I am planning on bringing it up during our next session  but I also wanted to do some introspection before then to see what my biases are and understand exactly where I'm coming from so I can communicate this better. 

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

In my opinion she is wise, because your own judging yourself for these things is perpetuating them. You could, if you wanted, choose something else, something to ADD rather than focusing on trying to remove the things that make you feel better. Like for example, (these are just my ideas, follow your own inspiration) pick up a good novel (romance, maybe?) or write one yourself, or start an art project or take an art class. 

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

Unless you're going overboard with all these things, I think she's right.

What would dealing with it without coping mechanisms look like, just taking a deep breath and being okay all the time? 

Your fantasies about this guy don't seem too weird and outlandish. You're really just imagining a loving figure comforting you, we all do that in some ways. I do it with random cute girls in my life that I imagine myself dating in the near future and it gives me something to look forward to when dealing with tough times.

And my basic understanding of tarot and astrology also makes me think that you're fine there too. Isn't the basic idea of it that the universe isn't random, has your best interest at heart and you can use the cards/charts/moons to learn to read it and predict it? I'd say that's about aligned with the rest of what we study here.

Seems to me that your coping mechanisms aren't too intrusive and just based on painting yourself a promising vision of the future and a belief that life isn't out to crush you and that there is positive hope in the future.

That does seem healthy to me, find what works and what's reliable and aligns with your life, I don't think you should think of it any further than that.

@mandyjw @LordFall so what I'm getting at is that a healthy level of delusion is alright so long as you're aware that it's delusion lmao ? 

I guess my thing with why I want to get rid of this psychological safety blanket so to say is because I know that it isn't directly aligned with the truth. I'm afraid that because there is that misalignment that this can get come in between me and my growth in the future (similar to how I guess some super religious people, though them practicing religion isn't to the point where it's hurting anyone, it still holds them back from fully integrating future stages of development). 

Some biases/ blind spots I might be having: 

Maybe this is my spiritual ego talking and wanting always align with the truth?

Maybe this is my previous judgements of religion coming out from my days of being a raging atheist years ago even though I no longer identify in that way (and haven't for years)?

Maybe this is me putting too much pressure on being competent and self assured in the face of uncertainty and chaos before actually being ready to do so? 

Or maybe this desire to hold on to my coping mechanisms are simply a way to avoid the reality of chaos? 

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

accepting this somewhat embarrassing part of myself

I suspect we all have parts that are embarrassing that we wish we didn't have or would just go away. Maybe it's less to do with blind acceptance and more to do with giving those parts love and positivity, acknowledging them for what they are.

For some recontextualisation: I would say tarot and astrology work by giving you a way to tap into your intuition in a concrete way. And fantasising gives you mental rehearsal for the real thing, so you can have more solid relationships. Seems positive to me?

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Carl-Richard

I am planning on bringing it up during our next session  but I also wanted to do some introspection before then to see what my biases are and understand exactly where I'm coming from so I can communicate this better. 

@mandyjw @LordFall so what I'm getting at is that a healthy level of delusion is alright so long as you're aware that it's delusion lmao ? 

I guess my thing with why I want to get rid of this psychological safety blanket so to say is because I know that it isn't directly aligned with the truth. I'm afraid that because there is that misalignment that this can get come in between me and my growth in the future (similar to how I guess some super religious people, though them practicing religion isn't to the point where it's hurting anyone, it still holds them back from fully integrating future stages of development). 

Some biases/ blind spots I might be having: 

Maybe this is my spiritual ego talking and wanting always align with the truth?

Maybe this is my previous judgements of religion coming out from my days of being a raging atheist years ago even though I no longer identify in that way (and haven't for years)?

Maybe this is me putting too much pressure on being competent and self assured in the face of uncertainty and chaos before actually being ready to do so? 

Or maybe this desire to hold on to my coping mechanisms are simply a way to avoid the reality of chaos? 

Whatever feels right to you IMO. Just take out all the shame of it and the pressure to conform to this idea of truth that you have. Take a deep breath, give yourself a break and do whatever you wanna do.  

[Flowerfaeiry]

10 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

But I still feel like I'm using the idea of this guy, astrology, and tarot as these psychological safety blankets to get through my current life and I do not like that.

Most of us have anchors of sorts that make us feel OK about life. You will eventually (if you choose) release these particular ones and move onto other reality-coping mechanisms. 

It's not necessarily "bad" to have these. It's good to recognize that you are doing it. Truth is scary because it shows us there's nothing to hold on to. We can't really accept that as humans so we have these anchors. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Carl-Richard

I am planning on bringing it up during our next session  but I also wanted to do some introspection before then to see what my biases are and understand exactly where I'm coming from so I can communicate this better. 

I see. You generally want to establish a common goal with the therapist. That's central to what is called building an alliance. It's thought that the efficacy of therapy isn't really about the specific type of therapy (more for some problems than others), but rather about the alliance: empathy, increased perspective and goal-directed awareness.

[SamC]

18 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Not sure what section this falls under so here goes nothing lol. 

First, a little background: 

I found myself relying on things like astrology and tarot to give myself a sense of certainty and predictability during the pandemic. While I don't believe in either completely, these do serve as a coping mechanism that helps me sleep at night. 

Also, there is this guy that I like. I have no intention on pursuing him for various reasons but I do think about him a lot and make up romantic scenarios in my head. I do this much more often than I care on admitting. I most definitely use the idea of him as a coping mechanism and whenever I feel down, I try to imagine him telling me exactly what I need to hear and cuddling next to him even though this is all technically me soothing myself and this is me incorporating positive self talk. 

 

I told my therapist about all of this and she more or less told me that none of these things are problematic and that I'm going about it in a healthy way. But I still feel like I'm using the idea of this guy, astrology, and tarot as these psychological safety blankets to get through my current life and I do not like that. I think my therapist is trying to point me towards the direction of accepting this somewhat embarrassing part of myself so that it's a non issue while I'm here feeling like she's encouraging behaviors that I'm trying to get rid of. 

Should I take my therapist's point of view and stop worrying about my weird coping mechanisms since they aren't harming me or other people? Or should I make an effort to get over my psychological safety blanket on my own? 

@soos_mite_ah I think what your therapist is noticing is that you´re afraid of having these coping mechanisms because you believe they are a problem. My therapist said something similar to me in regards to my goals. I said that I was driven by fear, while he said I was driven by desire. I felt incredibly misunderstood and almost angry as to why he didn´t see that I was driven by fear. I later realized that the real mechanism of fear for me was the very act of wanting to avoid being driven by fear and that I tried to " let go of it".. but for what?  because of fear.

What has helped me is going towards what I want instead of trying to stop acting from fear. This has meant that I sometimes have let myself be driven by fear.. because It´s okay. Dare to trust in yourself. What do you want?

[mandyjw]

16 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Carl-Richard

I am planning on bringing it up during our next session  but I also wanted to do some introspection before then to see what my biases are and understand exactly where I'm coming from so I can communicate this better. 

@mandyjw @LordFall so what I'm getting at is that a healthy level of delusion is alright so long as you're aware that it's delusion lmao ? 

I guess my thing with why I want to get rid of this psychological safety blanket so to say is because I know that it isn't directly aligned with the truth. I'm afraid that because there is that misalignment that this can get come in between me and my growth in the future (similar to how I guess some super religious people, though them practicing religion isn't to the point where it's hurting anyone, it still holds them back from fully integrating future stages of development). 

Some biases/ blind spots I might be having: 

Maybe this is my spiritual ego talking and wanting always align with the truth?

Maybe this is my previous judgements of religion coming out from my days of being a raging atheist years ago even though I no longer identify in that way (and haven't for years)?

Maybe this is me putting too much pressure on being competent and self assured in the face of uncertainty and chaos before actually being ready to do so? 

Or maybe this desire to hold on to my coping mechanisms are simply a way to avoid the reality of chaos? 

Spirituality is entirely made up. It's a bunch of BS. The notion of an self is entirely made up. The notion of a sky is entirely made up. You cannot ever locate the sky. It's a nonexistent screen or space that light is projected on and through. It's entirely imaginary. The fact that objects are solid is entirely imaginary, molecules are spinning around so fast, it creates the illusion of solidity. Science has proven to us, we are a fantasy.

Why pretend otherwise? This would still be fantasy. It's unavoidable. So we're here. Why not enjoy it? 

When you resist fantasy or you long for something not there you aren't enjoying it. When you create a painting, and you don't even know how to paint you allow yourself space for failures and mistakes. And you also will create something much better than you ever dreamed. Because the entire universe is creating with you. 

[soos_mite_ah]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I see. You generally want to establish a common goal with the therapist. That's central to what is called building an alliance. It's thought that the efficacy of therapy isn't really about the specific type of therapy (more for some problems than others), but rather about the alliance: empathy, increased perspective and goal-directed awareness.

Yeah most definitely. Having a similar understanding of goals can prevent a lot of miscommunication and avoid being misdirected in a place that isn't productive for you to go on. 

3 hours ago, SamC said:

I think what your therapist is noticing is that you´re afraid of having these coping mechanisms because you believe they are a problem. My therapist said something similar to me in regards to my goals. I said that I was driven by fear, while he said I was driven by desire. I felt incredibly misunderstood and almost angry as to why he didn´t see that I was driven by fear.

Tbh I was a little annoyed too when she said that it didn't sound like I had a problem when I thought I was very clearly neurotic. I was sitting there for a couple minutes thinking "Is this lady enabling my neurosis? Is she even the right therapist I should go to with this particular issue?" 

I guess whether it is good or bad news, in the end of the day we always want people and our realities to reaffirm what we were already thinking. And this can manifest in both a good and a bad way.  Good in the way that validating our thoughts and feelings can help us surrender to experience and process what we are going through while feeling supported. Bad in the way that this type of thinking can lead people into echo chamber or the trap of masochistic epistemology where they keep feeding themselves self deprecating information to reaffirm their beliefs as absolute truth. 

11 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Most of us have anchors of sorts that make us feel OK about life. You will eventually (if you choose) release these particular ones and move onto other reality-coping mechanisms. 

It's not necessarily "bad" to have these. It's good to recognize that you are doing it. Truth is scary because it shows us there's nothing to hold on to. We can't really accept that as humans so we have these anchors. 

So basically, don't pick at it or actively work against it to resolve it because that might lead to more problems. It will go away naturally when you are no longer in the place to need the anchor. That's what I'm getting at by reading this comment and a few others on this thread. 

[flowboy]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:15 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

@Carl-Richard

I am planning on bringing it up during our next session  but I also wanted to do some introspection before then to see what my biases are and understand exactly where I'm coming from so I can communicate this better. 

@mandyjw @LordFall so what I'm getting at is that a healthy level of delusion is alright so long as you're aware that it's delusion lmao ? 

I guess my thing with why I want to get rid of this psychological safety blanket so to say is because I know that it isn't directly aligned with the truth. I'm afraid that because there is that misalignment that this can get come in between me and my growth in the future (similar to how I guess some super religious people, though them practicing religion isn't to the point where it's hurting anyone, it still holds them back from fully integrating future stages of development). 

Some biases/ blind spots I might be having: 

Maybe this is my spiritual ego talking and wanting always align with the truth?

Maybe this is my previous judgements of religion coming out from my days of being a raging atheist years ago even though I no longer identify in that way (and haven't for years)?

Maybe this is me putting too much pressure on being competent and self assured in the face of uncertainty and chaos before actually being ready to do so? 

Or maybe this desire to hold on to my coping mechanisms are simply a way to avoid the reality of chaos? 

@soos_mite_ah First, investigate where this judgment is projected onto others, to get a complete picture.

Where are you judging other people for believing something that makes them comfortable?

What you judge others for, you can't let yourself do.

Then there is that stern waving finger, and a voice: "But it is not aligned with truth! It is wrong!"

Whose voice is that? Where did you first hear it?

If it's ruining your party, I can guarantee you, it's not yours.

Please answer these questions for me:

How would it feel to let yourself enjoy your tarot and your astrology, without constantly having to submit yourself to this strict voice and constantly have to pledge allegiance to the "truth" that it preaches?

How would you feel if you could even believe in those things that make you feel so comforted, having let go of the thought "but it isn't true"?

 

If an idea feels relaxed to you, that is a sign that is pointing to truth.

If an idea feels stressful, that is a sign that it points to falsehood.

Our bodies know. We don't need the internalized voices of others to tell us which way the truth is.

Edited November 11, 2021 by flowboy

[Farnaby]

@soos_mite_ah I would discuss this with your therapist.

On 10/11/2021 at 6:32 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Or should I make an effort to get over my psychological safety blanket on my own? 

Actually, in my experience, the way to get over something is not through effort. It is through radical acceptance of our coping mechanisms. Of course our mind resists this idea and it sounds like encouraging you to keep coping. But actually, the opposite tends to happen.

When you get curious in a non judgemental way about what needs you are meeting through tarot, etc., and you send love and compassion to that part of yourself, you don't start to cope more, you need less coping. Why? Because you are no longer making yourself feel shitty about it and you are actually showing up for the needs that were being met through tarot.

Most of us think effort, willpower and rejecting the current behaviours will bring us closer to our goals, but in my experience that's not true.

Try this little experiment: How do you feel if I tell you: "from now on, you are not allowed to go to tarot readers". Probably pressured, constricted and afraid. Then, if you try to follow through on that and you happen to "fail" you will feel guilty and so on. All that would only fuel your need to cope. 

If I tell you: "It's ok if you need to go to tarot readers. There's nothing wrong with you and I won't reject you for it. Even if you keep needing tarot your whole life". That probably feels much better and trust me, it will not make you cope more  

Edited November 11, 2021 by Farnaby