How the US Debt works?

[Eren Eeager]

Can someone explain the national debt for us? 

Being in debt for more than two trillion dollars is mind-blowing. The biggest country in the world should not be in debt. 

What prevents the US from collapsing? Would the US ever pay its debt or would just stay like this?

[Tancrede Pouyat]

States and companies don't have to pay debt. We, humans, do, because we're going to die eventually. By all accounts, as long as they're managed well, states and companies don't need to pay off their debt because they're never going to die.

The process they use is "rolling" debt. Meaning you borrow money today to repay the debt you previously had. This means debt's never an expense, only interest is.

Problems only start arising when people don't want to lend money to states and companies anymore. Pretty sure anybody will always be happy to lend money to the biggest country on earth.

[Nahm]

You might be framing things up that there is (currently) and ‘other than debt’, so the debt seems insane. As in foreign debt in comparison to an idea of accumulation nationally. But there is only debt. All money possessed by all Americans is lent from families with interest to the government. The Federal Reserve is not a public or government owned facility, it’s privately owned. 

@Tancrede Pouyat

Very true. Same with mortgages. Ultimately, there isn’t really any lending going on. If you print money and give me a dollar which costs me a dollar twenty, with no second option for me, it’s not lending, it’s slavery. No need to imagine the cover story of freedom that would be needed to pull of such a system.

On the companies never die and people do lens… maybe that facet isn’t as true as it seems. I would think a revelation there stands to change how one thinks about money, and reality, greatly. Think in terms generational wealth. Debts (and the income from) are willed. And there aren’t really generations, and financially, there is no difference between a person as an entity, and a company as an entity. Used to be a legal difference, but isn’t anymore. 

[DIDego]

 

[Gesundheit2]

There is no shortage of capitals who want to lend the USA. In fact, things are very competitive in this regard. Because the $ is the main currency (stable and reliable).

[Eren Eeager]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

There is no shortage of capitals who want to lend the USA. In fact, things are very competitive in this regard. Because the $ is the main currency (stable and reliable).

So they make profit lending US?

[Nahm]

How the money is made is more interesting imo than the debt facade. ‘Made’ as in accumulated, not as in created. 

[DIDego]

@Eren Eeager  @Nahm  Watched the video?

The title can be misinterpret, the youtube video isn't about "manufacturing-created" money.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

How the money is made is more interesting imo than the debt facade. ‘Made’ as in accumulated, not as in created. 

Or what is for you ? ‘Made’ as in accumulated, not as in created. 

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

So they make profit lending US?

Of course.

However, I don't know a lot about economics. I was mostly parroting something I heard this guy saying.

https://youtube.com/channel/UC4kRorAXuIkyIX6vwXKaLWg

Edited October 9, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

How the money is made is more interesting imo than the debt facade. ‘Made’ as in accumulated, not as in created. 

You're right. We're not experts in economics and we don't run capitals or countries, so the debt discussion is probably a distraction in comparison to how money works, and the latter would probably benefit us more.

[aurum]

11 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

Can someone explain the national debt for us? 

Being in debt for more than two trillion dollars is mind-blowing. The biggest country in the world should not be in debt. 

What prevents the US from collapsing? Would the US ever pay its debt or would just stay like this?

No we will never pay down the US national debt. Not under the current monetary system.

The reason being is that banks actually lend money into existence. It doesn’t come from anywhere. Where would it come from?

And so there is always more debt than money in the system.

That’s the short version at least. I would do research on how money is created if you want to understand this.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, DIDego said:

@Eren Eeager  @Nahm  Watched the video?

The title can be misinterpret, the youtube video isn't about "manufacturing-created" money.

Or what is for you ? ‘Made’ as in accumulated, not as in created. 

Right, I’m with ya. Let’s say, collected in a manor which people are unaware they are getting bamboozled by. 

[silene]

20 hours ago, aurum said:

The reason being is that banks actually lend money into existence. It doesn’t come from anywhere. Where would it come from?

As far as I know it's the govt who create money via their central banks buying bonds from the banks in the money markets, eg if there's a recession to stimulate the economy. The banks can then lend it to us and businesses (i think this is also called quantitative easing). They can also reduce the money supply if things are getting overheated, by doing the reverse and selling bonds. 

https://www.dummies.com/personal-finance/investing/where-does-money-come-from/

Contrary to usual opinion, businesses don't make money, they make profit (money comes from their customers). 

[Iksander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHe0bXAIuk0&ab_channel=PrinciplesbyRayDalio

[aurum]

2 hours ago, silene said:

As far as I know it's the govt who create money via their central banks buying bonds from the banks in the money markets, eg if there's a recession to stimulate the economy. The banks can then lend it to us and businesses (i think this is also called quantitative easing). They can also reduce the money supply if things are getting overheated, by doing the reverse and selling bonds. 

https://www.dummies.com/personal-finance/investing/where-does-money-come-from/

Contrary to usual opinion, businesses don't make money, they make profit (money comes from their customers). 

Yes that’s all basically correct.

It’s because of this system that we will never pay down the US debt. That’s my point.

The monetary system needs to reformed to eliminate money created as interest-bearing debt.

[Stovo]

If the debt is denominated in one's own currency (US debt is) then the country cannot go bankrupt, because the country can simply print more money to pay off its debts. 

[silene]

@Stovo and if that causes higher inflation, it reduces the relative size of the debt too.

[Stovo]

@silene Yep, inflation is the hidden tax

[Shin]

On 09/10/2021 at 0:35 PM, Eren Eeager said:

Can someone explain the national debt for us? 

Being in debt for more than two trillion dollars is mind-blowing. The biggest country in the world should not be in debt. 

What prevents the US from collapsing? Would the US ever pay its debt or would just stay like this?

Green stage dogmas aside, watch Zeitgeist addendum, it explains pretty well how money and banks work.

 

[Willie]