If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to get enlightened?

[snowyowl]

@Blackhawk  your health and wellbeing is the important thing, not enlightenment. If you're getting suicidal thoughts and horrific experiences then I'd suggest packing in the spirituality and getting professional help.

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, taotemu said:

LOL!  There it is.  You STILL think enlightenment is an achievement.  Good luck to you.  I hope you find what you are looking for.

You yourself said that doing something specific instead of something else increases the chance of or gets you closer to enlightenment:

7 minutes ago, taotemu said:

Go to a park and watch the birds.  If you can do this with a calm clear mind you are FAR closer to enlightenment than chatting here, taking psychedelics or meditating. 

@snowyowl I don't have suicidal thoughts or plans.

[Moksha]

25 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@Moksha Okay thanks.

Thanks for what? Maybe answer my question?

Quote

Have you ever had a profound moment of pure being, completely free from thought, like when observing a sunset, or standing on the pinnacle of a mountain, or losing yourself in the ocean crashing against the shore?

I feel like you are entrapped by your mind, and fighting hard to get out, but not realizing that the more you struggle, the more ensnared you become.

It's judo, not karate. Instead of fighting against everything, learn to allow what is, and in doing so, defeat it. Awakening is about acceptance, not aggression.

[Blackhawk]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Thanks for what? Maybe answer my question?

I feel like you are entrapped by your mind, and fighting hard to get out, but not realizing that the more you struggle, the more ensnared you become.

It's judo, not karate. Instead of fighting against everything, learn to allow what is, and in doing so, defeat it. Awakening is about acceptance, not aggression.

 

50 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Enlightenment isn't an achievement. It is a realization, and it happens when you are ripe enough to let go of the tree of transience, and fall into yourself. Until then, don't hang your happiness on it. Simply learn to be present. Take joy in this moment, and then learn to connect one moment to the next, until it is a continuous state of presence.

Have you ever had a profound moment of pure being, completely free from thought, like when observing a sunset, or standing on the pinnacle of a mountain, or losing yourself in the ocean crashing against the shore?

Each awakening moment is like that, but turned inward. Thoughts and emotions come and go, but they are seen from 10,000 feet, and you no longer identify with them. Instead, you simply resonate in the being that you are.

In the light of Consciousness, boundaries between yourself and everything else begin to dissolve. It is healing, it is liberating, and it is the realization of unconditional love.

I guess I have, it was nice.

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

I guess I have, it was nice.

What was nice about it? Did you learn anything from it? How did you feel, in that moment when you were free from thinking? Was it liberating? Have you considered that maybe thinking itself is the source of your suffering? Maybe letting go of thinking, like in those "nice" moments, is a bridge to being? If you experienced it, and found it liberating, why not learn to sustain it, instead of giving up?

[Breakingthewall]

@Blackhawk There is something you can do that is meditate, the problem is that if you have a lot of live trauma you will not be able to. You have to untangle that first, because that makes the ego very heavy. in my experience what works miracles are the mushrooms in medium doses, there is no money to pay it. You take 2 or 3 grams of mushrooms and the trauma surfaces, you see it, you go into the hardware. and disappears. once you have a minimally peaceful mind, meditation. you have to understand that the experience, the content, is banal. no more experience matters. if it happens, very good, but you could well stay 5 years in a cave. this is very difficult, we all want things to happen to us, sex, etc. but you have to fall in love with emptiness, with no experience. If what you are looking for is a life full of events, you are going the other way. once in love with silence, to practice it. It's not easy, I'm not enlightened, I'm not pretending that, i don't want to stay for ever in a cave, i still want that things happen, but I see the banality of the event

[Blackhawk]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

What was nice about it?

The colors.

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Did you learn anything from it?

No.

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

How did you feel, in that moment when you were free from thinking?

I felt good.

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Was it liberating?

Kinda.

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Have you considered that maybe thinking itself is the source of your suffering?

A bit.

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Maybe letting go of thinking, like in those "nice" moments, is a bridge to being?

Maybe.

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

If you experienced it, and found it liberating, why not learn to sustain it, instead of giving up?

I don't know how to do it.

[impulse9]

44 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Going to a park and watch birds with a calm and clear mind will totally cause enlightenment. Not.

Enlightenment isn't like anything else in your life. It transcends every single thing you know or think you know about reality, it's impossible to achieve it for this reason, it would be like trying to drink the ocean, or move the Earth with your hands, or some similar impossible feat like this. If this doesn't make any sense, it's because enlightenment doesn't make any sense. Enlightenment is the direct perception of your divine and infinite nature.

[Blackhawk]

@impulse9 Why does everyone recommend practices then.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@impulse9 Why do everyone recommend practices then.

You need lifetimes of spiritual practice to become enlightened, probably around 100k hrs in total. That is why it might seem impossible in just one lifetime. It's never too late to start though

Edited August 10, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Blackhawk]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

You need lifetimes of spiritual practice to become enlightened, probably around 100k hrs in total. That is why it might seem impossible in just one lifetime.

Then it's a achievement.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Then it's a achievement.

You would have no problems with that word if you had the chops to become enlightened . All the spiritual teachers that I've heard talk about past lives said that they had been on the path for a looong time before awakening in this lifetime.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[impulse9]

9 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@impulse9 Why does everyone recommend practices then.

Because they're dumb.

Jokes aside, what else is there to do? Not practice? You're free to live your life however you want. Spirituality is just a way of digging and grooving with the universe. Some of us just dig that vibe.

[4201]

4 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Then it's a achievement.

According to the definitions of many people here yes. But then you can mistake enlightenment for what most seekers think of enlightenment.

 

[VeganAwake]

@Blackhawk because you are running around seeking something that was never missing and perpetuating the belief that there is something to find... kind of like someone searching for their glasses when there on their head.

Enlightenment is the revelation that the very individual seeking for a better experience in the future is completely illusory.

It's freedom for no one which is already the case. ❤

[taotemu]

@Blackhawk I really doesn't matter what you do.  It isn't about doing.  I'm just giving suggestions for things that may help quiet your mind.  The only impediment to enlightenment is our mind.  A clear quiet mind is usually more likely to be aware of what is real, without being distracted by thoughts of past or future than a chaotic mind which is why meditation is often done. 

I had an enlightened experience once while driving in traffic.  I was late and the cars were barely moving.  I could feel the anger and frustration building in my body.  Then I happened to look up at a power line where some birds were just hanging out watching all the stupid humans in their cars creep along.  In a flash I realized how ridiculous all my stress was and I started to laugh.  A sudden wave of peace washed over me and I felt fully and completely present in that moment. Of course that feeling wasn't enlightenment, but the perspective was.  In that moment I had no problems.  Not because my ego didn't have any problems... I was late and in traffic.  I was still hot, my body still felt stress and my ego was still frustrated.  But an awareness came over me that was "above" all that.  But in reality there was nothing but the beauty of being alive.  Of course that state didn't last for me, but it was a window into what was really true vs. my stories about things.  I couldn't have "achieved" that state by the force of my will.  It was more like grace.  It came to me without me even trying.  

When it happens it is very much like a fish realizing it is in water.  It is always there.  There is nothing to do but realize it. 

@Carl-Richard  I disagree it takes any time at all to become enlightened.  It is a myth that so many buy into that only add to confusion and makes it seem nearly unattainable.  It happens in an instant and without effort.  It may take years to unlearn all the BS around it that is getting in the way, but it itself is as easy as your next breath. 

[Blackhawk]

8 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

@Blackhawk because you are running around seeking something that was never missing and perpetuating the belief that there is something to find... kind of like someone searching for their glasses when there on their head.

Enlightenment is the revelation that the very individual seeking for a better experience in the future is completely illusory.

It's freedom for no one which is already the case. ❤

So the revelation should be easy to get. But it isn't easy. And it's frustrating.

[Blackhawk]

Is it because I don't have free will?

So it's the real I who has free will, not this body/mind?

So where is this damn real I? I can't find that bastard.

[Leo Gura]

@Blackhawk Please notice your entitled attitude about all this. It's as if you demand someone to explain the truth to you. But that's not how this work works. If you really care about this work then you will change your attitude from one of entitled whining to open-minded genuine self-inquiry.

By demanding people to convince you of things, or to explain truth you to, you make a fool of yourself. These things can only make sense if you get serious about doing the contemplative work. Your mental masturbation will not advance you, it only wastes time. No one is going to give you the answers.

[Blackhawk]

@Leo Gura I have been trying. I'm frustrated.