How to deal with girls wanting favors and treats

[flowboy]

Also this way, you avoid the guy feeling screwed over at the end of a date that didn't work out.

It's just better (imo).

[Hulia]

16 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

'm just saying... we all want The One. But do we actually feel worthy of his or her love?

Oh, I do! I really do! But the guys are too shallow to see how much worthy I am. And I am too proud to manipulate them into emotional dependence.

[Emerald]

@flowboy Sorry... I don't "go Dutch"  No Dutch guys for me. j/k

I do understand cultural differences.

That said, it does create a certain atmosphere about the date when the guy assumes those roles that I associate with traditional courtship. And I like that vibe. It creates more polarization, which adds to the attraction dynamic.

But if I had already developed a platonic relationship to a guy and already knew him and had developed an intimate friendship with him, it might be too formal. It would all depend contextually.

With that in mind, if I were on a dating app, I'd probably have a lot more boundaries around things like that. Like, the man not paying would definitely be a red flag. And I would be looking out for more signs of why he didn't.

If it's cultural, that's okay. If he's an uber feminist, that's okay. If he's tight on money, that might be okay as long as he has a job and is a stable person. If he's cheap. That's not okay. If he's trying to have as much fun with women as he possibly can without paying a dime. That's not okay. 

[flowboy]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

The reason I never talk about my LP to girls is I don't want to come across as a nerd. Most girls have nothing with IT.

@StarStruck True, but it's not really about the informational content, rather the emotional content.

I can talk about IT in a way that is entertaining to girls, people rather, who don't understand the subject at all.

Because I talk about how it makes me feel, I express a wide range of emotions in the stories I tell. So following along is like an epic adventure, even if you have no idea what those words mean.

It is necessary to not just share your information, but also (most importantly) share your emotional experience.

Being stoic is not helpful.

The range of emotions you talk about should be a healthy mix of exciting, cool, heart-warming, and some sad, and some scary, et cetera.

If you fail to express feelings that are connected to stories, you won't have a lot of successful dates.

[flowboy]

10 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@flowboy Sorry... I don't "go Dutch"  No Dutch guys for me. j/k

I do understand cultural differences.

That said, it does create a certain atmosphere about the date when the guy assumes those roles that I associate with traditional courtship. And I like that vibe. It creates more polarization, which adds to the attraction dynamic.

But if I had already developed a platonic relationship to a guy and already knew him and had developed an intimate friendship with him, it might be too formal. It would all depend contextually.

With that in mind, if I were on a dating app, I'd probably have a lot more boundaries around things like that. Like, the man not paying would definitely be a red flag. And I would be looking out for more signs of why he didn't.

If it's cultural, that's okay. If he's an uber feminist, that's okay. If he's tight on money, that might be okay as long as he has a job and is a stable person. If he's cheap. That's not okay. If he's trying to have as much fun with women as he possibly can without paying a dime. That's not okay. 

I may have misrepresented a bit how I actually tend to do it.

The "let's do X and you can buy me a drink" move is something I employed situationally, with a wink, when I wanted to be a bit cocky and give an emotional spike. And send a signal that I value my own company/time highly. Timed correctly, it often gets a laugh.

I end up paying about 2/3 of the times on dates. Usually I pay the first "thing" we do, and often the second, then we start alternating in who takes care of the bill. Again, because otherwise it is interpreted as pressure to put out, and also, we're Dutch and to us that's more fair.

I don't split, because that produces a vibe that money is an issue, which is not conducive to sex.

But girls will insist on paying at least sometimes, and letting them, is a sign of respect here. Again, because they're eager to show their independence.

It's nice to have an atmosphere of abundance, where money is no issue. But we don't like the balance being way skewed towards one person. At least I don't, and most people I've met who are Dutch.

 

We have cultural differences, but where we agree, in my view, is that we don't tolerate the leechy vibe, where our date is trying to get something for free. I'm okay with being generous unless I'm being manipulated into it.

Edited July 29, 2021 by flowboy

[Preety_India]

@flowboy

 

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I may have misrepresented a bit how I actually tend to do it.

The "let's do X and you can buy me a drink" move is something I employed situationally, when I wanted to be a bit cocky and give an emotional spike. And send a signal that I value my own company/time highly. Timed correctly, it often gets a laugh.

I end up paying about 2/3 of the times on dates. Usually I pay the first "thing" we do, and often the second, then we start alternating in who takes care of the bill. Again, because otherwise it is interpreted as pressure to put out, and also, we're Dutch and to us that's more fair.

I don't split, because that produces a vibe that money is an issue, which is not conducive to sex.

But girls will insist on paying at least sometimes, and letting them, is a sign of respect here. Again, because they're eager to show their independence.

It's nice to have an atmosphere of abundance, where money is no issue. But we don't like the balance being way skewed towards one person. At least I don't, and most people I've met who are Dutch.

Now I know why. The Dutch come with big paper mache heads.

 

10 minutes ago, flowboy said:

 

I can talk about IT in a way that is entertaining to girls

 

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I may have misrepresented a bit how I actually tend to do it.

The "let's do X and you can buy me a drink" move is something I employed situationally, when I wanted to be a bit cocky and give an emotional spike. And send a signal that I value my own company/time highly. Timed correctly, it often gets a laugh.

I end up paying about 2/3 of the times on dates. Usually I pay the first "thing" we do, and often the second, then we start alternating in who takes care of the bill. Again, because otherwise it is interpreted as pressure to put out, and also, we're Dutch and to us that's more fair.

I don't split, because that produces a vibe that money is an issue, which is not conducive to sex.

But girls will insist on paying at least sometimes, and letting them, is a sign of respect here. Again, because they're eager to show their independence.

It's nice to have an atmosphere of abundance, where money is no issue. But we don't like the balance being way skewed towards one person. At least I don't, and most people I've met who are Dutch.

Okay, that's pretty much what I would anticipate. That's about the dynamic I would like if I were in a dating situation. 

On the practical level, a lot of it has to do with sussing out if a guy is lazy/unwilling to invest or if he's hung up on small things like a few bucks here or there. Both of these can be a bad sign.

So, if he pays for the first couple dates, and then we alternate from there on out, that would be normal. And it wouldn't send up a red flag. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Emerald

[flowboy]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The Dutch come with big paper mache heads.

No, that one was mine!! Did you remember to pick it up for me?

[flowboy]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Okay, that's pretty much what I would anticipate. That's about the dynamic I would like if I were in a dating situation. 

On the practical level, a lot of it has to do with sussing out if a guy is lazy/unwilling to invest or if he's hung up on small things like a few bucks here or there. Both of these can be a bad sign.

So, if he pays for the first couple dates, and then we alternate from there on out, that would be normal. And it wouldn't send up a red flag. 

Phew, I'm not out of the game

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, flowboy said:

Phew, I'm not out of the game

[Preety_India]

@flowboy yea I picked it up. It's lying in your mailbox. Go get it.

 

 

[flowboy]

@Preety_India So that's what was blocking my door! I'll put it inside before it gets wet. Thanks for saving my head

[Preety_India]

@flowboy you're welcome.

[Flint]

13 hours ago, StarStruck said:

So I took this girl for ice cream and she said she also want a hamburger and 5 minutes later she also wanted fries and then something else. 

My intention was just to buy ice cream. I bought her a hamburger out of niceness but then she wanted more and I said no but it kind of killed the mood a little bit. 

How could I handle this situation in the future? I think she sensed I was a nice guy. 

In bars girls ask for drinks too. It is easy to say no but how can I say no and not ruin the mood and still get her. That is what I'm asking. 

As a general rule, don't buy girls anything unless you sleep with them or are dating them.

If you're on a date and/or there is some clear sexual tension and attraction - buying drinks is okay. If they are interested they will often reciprocate and buy you a drink as well afterwards (at least in Europe).

If you buy her something and she's explicitely asks for something else, leave her. Don't expect your dates to work straight out of the box. Some of the girls you meet will be completely crazy and or might exploit you. That's related to their not so good personality and you should aim to screen those.

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, StarStruck said:

So I took this girl for ice cream and she said she also want a hamburger and 5 minutes later she also wanted fries and then something else. 

My intention was just to buy ice cream. I bought her a hamburger out of niceness but then she wanted more and I said no but it kind of killed the mood a little bit. 

How could I handle this situation in the future? I think she sensed I was a nice guy. 

In bars girls ask for drinks too. It is easy to say no but how can I say no and not ruin the mood and still get her. That is what I'm asking. 

Hahaha you should try findom that will give you a taste of the dinamics of beta behaviour

[Vzdoh]

8 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Of course women don't owe me sex. And I do not owe them anything, either.

Still; I give and I recieve.

It is my absolute joy and pleasure to treat the girl I'm seeing, take her out for nice dinners, buy her cute, little presents, etc. I'm not doing any of that to get sex. At least not directly. I do it because I like it. It feels good, to both of us.

But if I sense any sort of entitlement or bitchiness from the girl, I'm out the door sooner than she can blink.

@ivankiss @Mason Riggle 

This is the type of attitude in guys I am looking for. Guy must feel awesome to do little things for his GF and treat her well. I do the same in the relationship where I try my best to do little things for my guy ?

But guy's attitude like hey we r equal and I do not owe u anything and we should do 50/50 after you are my GF, I will break up. That's not how I want to be treated. 

[Mason Riggle]

@Vzdoh absolutely. I'll gladly treat my date. I'll offer the burger and fries before she asks. 

I think the OP was referring specifically to situations where the girl asks for or expects 'treats and favors'. 

Open your own door, but if I pay attention to your actual needs and desires and fulfill those, I don't need fake chivalry, and you won't have to ask for treats. 

I expect the same in return. If I'm not fulfilled, it's my choice to leave, and I don't owe any other explanations. I offer you the same understanding. I won't ask you for shit. But I will appreciate what you offer.  

 

[Preety_India]

@Mason Riggle why are you calling chivalry fake?

 

[Mason Riggle]

@Preety_India I'm not. I think there's chivalry and fake chivalry. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Roy]

Just joke with her that you're a feminist and believe in equality, which includes equality of the bill LOL.

Seems to work well for me. She'll forget all about being hungry when you're arguing with each other! 

But yea that's a bit of a red flag anyways. A healthy independent woman would just pay for their own if they wanted something extra..... not try to push things and act pissy or awkward when they don't get what they want. In that case you are dating a girl, not a woman.

Also I know you're still learning but you need to not get stuck in getting overzealous that "nice guy" is synonymous with "bad". You can still be genuinely nice, and have a calm peaceful demeanor and garner respect. It's done by being tactful and smart about which boundaries need to be set, and when. Have a piercing sharpness about your decisions that is so clear they can feel it.