asifarahim

looking for machiavellian resoucess

19 posts in this topic

my fellow forum members. i am looking for machiavellian resources. share what u found here. what the best resouces i found are

1. robert greene

2 illmitable men

3 baltasar gracian

4 suntzu

 healthy machiavellianism used as a shield for defensive purposes are very much needed in our society especially underdeveloped countries. i have to deal with high stage red people daily and it is a pain in the ass as i have no machiavellian skills. also we all face politics in office. if you can  master this skill then it is very good.

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@asifarahim Thick Face Black Heart by Chingning Chu!


Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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10 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@asifarahim Thick Face Black Heart by Chingning Chu!

Is it as powerful as greenes books?

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Posted (edited)

Have you read Machiavelli himself?

His writings are sneaky and not made expressly clear because if he came out and said what he really thought, he would have been imprisoned or banished by the Medici family. I recommend if you want to learn it and not be confused as to what is meant, start with Erica Benner's Be Like The Fox: Machiavelli and His World. It explains how Machiavelli thought without having to decipher the hidden meanings that you'd normally have to figure out on your own. Then Peter Constantine's The Essential Writings of Machiavelli, which includes The Prince, The Discourses, & The Art of War +++

Also, you could check out The Art of Manliness Podcast where Brett talks to the Erica Benner about Machiavelli.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/machiavelli-the-prince/

Edited by Logan

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Posted (edited)

@asifarahim Oh I don't know much about Robert Greene books. I've only read snippets of 48 Laws of Power and I didn't like it. I know he has more books than that one though

 

So with Thick Face Black Heart, that's more of a self-help, philosophy book. "Thick Face" means that you have a psychological shield from the opinions and perceptions of others.

"Black Heart" means willingness to act and take action regardless of consequences to others. Its ruthlessness, but not inherently evil. An example the book gives are surgeons who have had to work without anaesthetic. In order to be effective in their duty/goal, they have to be willing to accept the patient screaming, and act to the best of their ability in spite of this. To be able to accept/ignore the screaming and focus on the task (funny how accept and ignore almost mean the same thing here) 

Black-hearted is about being above short sighted compassion to achieve your goals. 

The book goes on to describe what it sees as the different phase of thick face, black heart. It also elaborates on the fact that thick-face black-heart is about effective action and getting what you want, and isn't inherently good or evil. Although in the early phases/development it may look more evil to an onlooker. 

 

So anyway yeah the book is like that

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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My advice is PLEASE don't buy into that paradigm, the fact you're here indicates you are above it. It's steeped in low vibration energy and after studying it and applying it you will get a small reward for great punishment.

 

Collaborative paradigm beats competitive. Never buy into the brainwashing that scarcity exists. You will only contribute to the suffering of humanity. 

 

Anytime you are conscious enough to observe another ego in action, become present and ''do not resist an evil person''. Anything you react to strongly in another you strengthen in yourself. By playing the games they play you will only feed the lower parts of you - encouraging demons to move into your etheric body. 

 

It will lead you astray to the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Believe me I've been down that road. It's the realm of hungry ghosts. 

 

The solution is awareness, presence, non-resistance and healthy boundaries. Consciousness speaks of it's own. Don't fixate on ego revenge - getting even, getting what I deserve, an eye for an eye. That's all fuel for ego which is what we want to dissolve - or at least find salvation through Christ. 

 

I've played sports for a long time and fallen for that trap. Even after achieving success by those means it's hollow. Remain true to whatever higher power you worship and let go. Whenever you're triggered by another ego scheming against you be grateful for the opportunity to release unconscious trauma and move into a higher state of being. It's difficult but ultimately rewarding. The cop out is to unconsciously retaliate or even worse consciously research ways to egoistically respond. 

'' What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul?''

Paradoxically the pragmatic way to succeed is to let go and let god. The small self has no power in face of Self.

''But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.''

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Posted (edited)

As someone thats scored very highly on Machiavellianism (98 out of 100), I'd say these are among the best videos out there explaining the personality trait, as well as the philosopher Niccolò Machiavelli.

I do however, only use these tactics to prevent myself or family/friends from getting taken advantage of. Much like what @asifarahim seems to be advocating for. It can be a very helpful tool to have, but one that should be handled with great care.

Edited by Fearey

INTP 5w4 from Norway

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52 minutes ago, Fearey said:

 

it’s really sneaky - the fear, accompanying fear, reproducing fear  one of his most innate principles is a vicious cycle it holds the person in power in a self created hell, basically always needing to be attentive against even more scheming individuals. 

it‘s unbelievable this is still seen as a perspective by people. but ok it makes movies and theaters more animated.

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Quote

 

it‘s unbelievable this is still seen as a perspective by people. but ok it makes movies and theaters more animated.


 

 

It's very real and a great number of people utilize the means of Machiavellianism to some extent. Because of the destructive capabilities of someone very high in Machiavellianism, it's very important that people know how highly Machiavellian individuals tend to operate, in order to better defend themselves against it.

A high mach individual could basically plan out a sceme 10, 20 or even 40 years into the future, and you'd never see it coming. Then when the time comes, they'd execute their plan to near perfect precision, just at the right time, ceising complete control of their objective.

The way in which high mach individuals are able to plan extremely far into the future, carefully considering most possible outcomes, all from behind the scenes, is what makes Machiavellianism, in my opinion, the most dangerous out of all the personality traits.


INTP 5w4 from Norway

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Fearey said:

It's very real and a great number of people utilize the means of Machiavellianism to some extent. Because of the destructive capabilities of someone very high in Machiavellianism, it's very important that people know how highly Machiavellian individuals tend to operate, in order to better defend themselves against it.

no it’s low operations - the problem is that being in contact with alone the theory about it is so toxic that people don’t expect it - because it’s so low consciousness therefore it might surprise people. even in that time there were more conscious theories which impacted the world much more profoundly than machiavellianism - the medici were a whole dynasty who influenced artists and theories still present today in a much higher operated political field and energy than this shadow figure of self deception.

machiavelli is mere an illusionist of  a fear monster which is eating up the machiavellianist from inside.

the video states the dark triad has nothing to do with it - ofc it has, its  a false claim to begin with to say it has not.

i’m not saying every political schemer is a machiavellianist though.

Edited by mememe

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12 hours ago, Fearey said:

As someone thats scored very highly on Machiavellianism (98 out of 100), I'd .

8 hours ago, Fearey said:

 

Were u a born machiavellian or did u learned it along the way

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On 7/27/2021 at 3:57 AM, lmfao said:

@asifarahim Thick Face Black Heart by Chingning Chu!

It's a better book than 48 laws of power and 33 strategies of war. But you have to research into the examples that the author referred in the book. If you do not understand Chinese history well, then it may not sink (absorb) in that well with you.

The prince (book) is quite simple. It is when people expanded on the philosophies in the book that made the book incredible.

Other books that you can read are Atlas Shrugged, The Fountain head by Ayn Rand and The Satanic Bible by Anton Lavey. This is called going down the rabbit hole.

 

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Posted (edited)

@hyruga hmm interesting stuff. Chinese history/aesthetic looks "glamorous", don't know anything about it. 

Glamorous unless I visit China and it's as dirty as people say 

--

Also @Ya know makes good point even if I don't have same thoughts. 

@Husseinisdoingfine made a thread about same topic some weeks ago where people also left good thoughts on this

 

A current conceptualisation I have of this topic of being "machiavellian" and etc.... For me I see the important takeaway to be this. Looking at the different sorts of roles or modes of expression we have. Seeing the different roles or modes of expression we limit ourselves to 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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@asifarahim Learned over time, most likely starting as early as primary school as a way to defend against and get back at bullies.


INTP 5w4 from Norway

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, lmfao said:

@hyruga hmm interesting stuff. Chinese history/aesthetic looks "glamorous", don't know anything about it. 

Glamorous unless I visit China and it's as dirty as people say 

--

Also @Ya know

@Husseinisdoingfine

@lmfao not sure why you use 'glamorous'. 

But the Chinese did unite a vast piece of land with a huge population and managed to get everyone to use and write the same language thanks to the draconian rules used by former emperors. If you read Black heart, you will know that what the former emperors did practically save China from becoming a land with many split states.

which is why in the movie 'Hero' (fiction), Jet Li sacrifices himself instead of killing the emperor because he knows that killing the emperor will lead to even more chaos in China. Or the emperor has to kill the hero to save the world. 'Our Land' should have been 'Our World' if it directly translated but as you see, China is not the whole world so they change it to Our Land.

 

Edited by hyruga

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