Vision

If other human beings are an illusion, why does it feel good to help others?

84 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Nobody here transcends survival, at most we take a look at what there is if you stop survival mode for a while, but for this you have to have guaranteed survival, if not, it will be difficult not to focus exclusively on it. And the connor thing ... well, using homeless people to get views on YouTube to earn money doesn't seem like an example of altruistic holiness to me

Conner's strategy is no better than Leo's strategy. Both use spirituality for survival. The difference is that Conner actually followed suit and gave away all of his money and bitcoins.


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On 7/15/2021 at 6:21 AM, Vision said:

If we were to become conscious of the duality between self and other being an illusion, how does our Life Purpose still make us feel satisfied and fulfilled? 

Why does it still feel good to have an impact on "others" through our Life Purpose when there is no such thing?

Is it because "others" are you? So we naturally want to improve every manifestation of reality as if it were our own creation?

Because feeling good is about perception, which involves identifying with mind states. Doing wholesome actions produces wholesome mindstates which is perceived as good feelings. The actions aren't whats important, but the mind states associated with it.

An arahant for example no longer identifies with his actions and mind so they would not "feel good" when helping others. They would only think "at this moment this is the proper actions to take." 

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On 7/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

The same way you always have.

You could die at any second. Yet you still made plans in your life.

That's true.

On 7/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yes

Survival demands it.

Survival also demands us to breathe in spite of knowing if the air we breathe is toxic for us :o 

On 7/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Of course belief is useful. Belief is commonly used because that's what is required for survival.

Survival requires some bullshittery to get things rolling smoothly.

Welcome to life, where bullshit is the fuel.

Don't try to be so pure and holy that you refuse to wrestle in the mud. Survival is wrestling with pigs in the mud. If you don't like that, you're always free to stop surviving.

How have you made peace with the realization of this @Leo Gura?

If we were to really "transcend survival", wouldn't we be dead by now? Even with the idea of transcending and including? 

Survival fundamentally has fragmentation, opposite of Truth. They're antithetical to each other. 


“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.” — L. P. Jacks

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On 7/16/2021 at 4:19 AM, Javfly33 said:

If I discover people I talk to are unreal, by the same logic I should lose the interest and joy in interacting with them.

@Javfly33 What makes you assume this to be the case?

Why does something have to be "real" (whatever that means to you) for it to have value?

What makes you believe that you can't have fun with an illusion?

I'd contemplate that. 


“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.” — L. P. Jacks

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On 7/17/2021 at 8:36 AM, StarStruck said:

Conner's strategy is no better than Leo's strategy. Both use spirituality for survival. The difference is that Conner actually followed suit and gave away all of his money and bitcoins.

There is actually a much bigger difference here, Leo is serving a specific function, he is giving away free content in order to help man kind as a whole, This can itself create an exponential growth curve of many individuals who become exposed to his content. Its less of a survival strategy than it is as serving a much deeper function. Yes he is still able to benefit from the fruit it bares to assist with his survival, in order for him to continue to be of service. Conner still has money, he didnt give all of it away. Giving money to people doesn't come close to the same effect Leo provides. 

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Their body isn't an illusion their sense of self within that body is the illusion. 

It feels good to help someone because the body has a natural instinct to survive.

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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On 7/15/2021 at 4:21 AM, Vision said:

Is it because "others" are you? 

Usually no, this feeling is a form of group survival strategy.  Most individuals within circle would feel good to be useful or helpful, especially when there are multiple benefits.

Any group of individuals who can collaborate together, over time, will have better chance to survive against another group who can't.

 

Rarely, people help others consciously without some kind of agenda behind the act.


Hakuna matata

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you feel good because you realize that you, in the relative sense, are a cog of a whole, and that the most stupid and against yourself that you can do is to behave in a selfish and mean way.

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On 7/19/2021 at 1:57 AM, Vision said:

How have you made peace with the realization of this @Leo Gura?

If we were to really "transcend survival", wouldn't we be dead by now? Even with the idea of transcending and including? 

Survival fundamentally has fragmentation, opposite of Truth. They're antithetical to each other. 

You must learn to appreciate the bitter-sweet nature and intelligence behind survival.

Survival is not just some dirty, stupid process that we must eliminate. Survival is the thing that keeps you alive and there is a deep intelligence behind it. Without survival you could not awaken. All of spirituality is predicated on successful survival.

You can't attend a meditation retreat or read an Eckhart Tolle book or watch an Actualized video if you're dead.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/15/2021 at 3:26 PM, Leo Gura said:

Don't overlook the point that there's nothing but illusions. When illusions are all you have, the fact that it's an illusion makes little difference to your mind.

 

@Leo Gura, you're right about the nature of reality when you say that it is illusory.

But you fail to let us know that "nihilism" is actually a great thing and that the way reality is structured is simply excellent.

From your teachings, which are great, I get a dark taste, in the sense that you fail to mention how wonderful imagination is.

You don't tell people that when they embark on the hero's journey, it is inevitable to perceive the nature of reality in a dark way and that we need to be aware of the trap of perceiving imagination in a negative way.

On the spiritual path, it's important to jailbreak our minds for the positive, to become able to perceive reality as a mind-blowing thing.

The subconscious creates meaning and interpretation through the means of emotions.

Edited by EnRoute

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5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You must learn to appreciate the bitter-sweet nature and intelligence behind survival.

Survival is not just some dirty, stupid process that we must eliminate. Survival is the thing that keeps you alive and there is a deep intelligence behind it. Without survival you could not awaken. All of spirituality is predicated on successful survival.

You can't attend a meditation retreat or read an Eckhart Tolle book or watch an Actualized video if you're dead.

Yet embodying survival goes against Spirituality that entails love, selflessness and high consciousness and survival sticks up like a thorn blocking the path to high consciousness. Because it acts like a debt you always keep paying, it causes people to play survival games and this leads to Devilry in turn reducing the quality and level of consciousness that humans can achieve. It's like materialism blocking spirituality. 

 

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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Posted (edited)

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't attend a meditation retreat or read an Eckhart Tolle book or watch an Actualized video if you're dead.

Yes. When I'll be dead, I won't be able to discover the future inventions of humanity.

I won't be able to have a girlfriend.

I won't be able to enjoy life, since life is the opposite of death.

What comes after my body ceases to exist? Total consciousness? And is total consciousness more beautiful than the current state of consciousness that I'm in?

Moreover, is total consciousness (that which comes after my body disintegrates) more beautiful than life itself and what I'm able to experience now?

In a nutshell: "Is alive more precious than not being alive?"

I have a lot of questions about a topic like this.

Edited by EnRoute
To add a sentence.

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15 minutes ago, EnRoute said:

But you fail to let us know that "nihilism" is actually a great thing and that the way reality is structured is simply excellent.

From your teachings, which are great, I get a dark taste, in the sense that you fail to mention how wonderful imagination is.

I keep telling you it's Infinite Love. Not sure how much clearer I could be.

All I teach is Love. If you consider that dark, that's something about you.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I keep telling you it's Infinite Love. Not sure how much clearer I could be.

All I teach is Love. If you consider that dark, that's something about you.

The question is how long can survival games go on. 

How can there be love in the middle of all these survival games of humanity.

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

Quick access to journal entries

 

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4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The question is how long can survival games go on. 

How can there be love in the middle of all these survival games of humanity.

It's ALL Love.

The survival games are Love.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You must learn to appreciate the bitter-sweet nature and intelligence behind survival.

Survival is not just some dirty, stupid process that we must eliminate. Survival is the thing that keeps you alive and there is a deep intelligence behind it. Without survival you could not awaken. All of spirituality is predicated on successful survival.

You can't attend a meditation retreat or read an Eckhart Tolle book or watch an Actualized video if you're dead.

@Leo Gura Was this the vision you had when you were escaping wage slavery and working on Stage Orange (business, financial freedom, etc)? That when you get your financial needs in order, you’ll dedicate more of your time to spirituality? 


“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.” — L. P. Jacks

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's ALL Love.

Even if "It's ALL Love," not even total consciousness is more precious than your subjective life experience.

And you will lose your life soon since you're simply a mortal.

How can we know what comes after we die? And that which comes after our bodies ceases to exist, is it worth it? Is it awesome?

Isn't it a tremendous loss to lose our lives? All beauty is predicated upon life. The rest is meaningless.

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23 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Yet embodying survival goes against Spirituality that entails love, selflessness and high consciousness and survival sticks up like a thorn blocking the path to high consciousness. Because it acts like a debt you always keep paying, it causes people to play survival games and this leads to Devilry in turn reducing the quality and level of consciousness that humans can achieve. It's like materialism blocking spirituality. 

 

That’s one way to interpret it. 

Another way, is to see that they are intertwined.


“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.” — L. P. Jacks

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14 minutes ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura Was this the vision you had when you were escaping wage slavery and working on Stage Orange (business, financial freedom, etc)? That when you get your financial needs in order, you’ll dedicate more of your time to spirituality? 

No. I had no clue spirituality even existed back then.

My vision was simply about living a passionate material life.

14 minutes ago, EnRoute said:

And you will lose your life soon since you're simply a mortal.

That is an illusion I have disabused myself of.

I exist forever.

Quote

How can we know what comes after we die? And that which comes after our bodies ceases to exist, is it worth it? Is it awesome?

Everything is literally awesome. A fork is awesome. You just have to stop taking it for granted.

Quote

Isn't it a tremendous loss to lose our lives? All beauty is predicated upon life. The rest is meaningless.

The highest beauty is beyond human life.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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