Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

One of the things was definitely selfishness, which comes back to ego

That's also not necessarily true. If he was truly ready to move on from material existence, then staying back for the sake of others would not be proper.

Sadhguru's wife committed Mahasamadhi when they had a young daughter. You could say it was selfish of her, but that's your judgment. You don't know what was right for her. My guess is that Sadhguru does not regard her a selfish. He himself told his followers that he would do Mahasamadhi some time ago.

These things are not as black and white as they seem.

But this much is very clear: IF you care about survival, don't do things which remove every last preference against survival. Otherwise, what will keep you alive? Every one of you has to decide what is the bare minimum survival you're willing to accept. And if that bare minimum hits zero, realize that you are as good as dead. So either change your mind quick or prepare to meet your maker.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam tell you that if you die you are going to heaven. But who interprets that as an invitation to jump off a bridge?

[Ryan R]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We actually don't know this.

Maybe it was lack of fear. If one completely ignores all fear, and all caution, there is little stopping you from jumping off a bridge.

Fear is there for a reason: to keep you alive.

This is of course correct, but if we tell all of these nice seekers this some of both the fearless and the fragile ones may go throw themselves off bridges and such. People be impressionable and crazy you know, lol

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

This is of course correct, but if we tell all of these nice seekers this some of both the fearless and the fragile ones may go throw themselves off bridges and such. People be impressionable and crazy you know, lol

As I told Connor Murphy when he was trying to tell me that I was afraid of his crazy antics, I told him to make a distinction between fear and caution.

If some self-help book tells you to be fearless, does that mean you should disable the break peddle in your car?

You see how easy it is to take an innocent piece of advice such as: "Be fearless" and twist it into: "So I should never use the break peddle and never use condoms."

It's very hard to make advice that fool-proof.

[charlie cho]

@Leo Gura it is not natural to kill one's body nor is it natural to die prematurely. I do not approve of it whether you like it or not. Remember, existence is a natural phenomenon. And nature is not masochistic. Nature does not condone suicide that easily. There is a natural way and there is an unnatural way. And I swear these people in spirituality who are being masochistic to awaken are the most dangerous people. Speaking of the mahatmas, christian monks, and buddhist saints... etc. And especially what has plagued the world are those people who infect others with such presuppositions about Nature. And people cheer on them, unfortunately, so they are easy to propagate. People love masochistic people, because if they see anyone taking care of themselves in a loving way, they feel jealous. I am sure Nature despises such things, to say the least. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[jimwell]

1 hour ago, charlie cho said:

But at the same time, out of anyone here, I am of the opinion, it is completely one's choice to commit such acts and no one should or should not tell him what to do and control him, indefinitely! I still, will tell him and others, do not feel bad or be angry just because someone has trodden the road of his own, in which in this case, suicide. I don't blame him for committing suicide. I will help him get there and be with him in that lonely road. Any of you blaming others for his suicide and encouraging him and saying his choice is something to be completely accepted and never to be challenged upon is tredding on a path of nihilism: I can be sure.

To tell another person one should be indefinitely be in agreement to one's path is the most arrogant thing and this sort of force over power only breeds more nihilism and hatred. This sort of attitude only demonstrates how much you don't accept other's going on their own path, and you just want everyone to agree with your own. This includes our friend who has just died! I can already feel the energy gliding towards this path, and it is dangerous. A real person who supports our friend's path will right away be honest and truthful to him in the most friendly way. Only a person who does not support the deceased person's path will lie and pretend like what he has done was a very wise choice both for himself and others! I'll give you this simple rule for those who think I'm an asshole, don't lie or pretend to the person you love dearly!

You are wrestling with yourself. And you are gaslighting yourself, me, and others here. Stop it. Don't waste our time, especially in this time of grieving and suffering.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@Leo Gura it is not natural to kill one's body nor is it natural to die prematurely. I do not approve of it whether you like it or not. Remember, existence is a natural phenomenon. And nature is not masochistic. Nature does not condone suicide that easily. There is a natural way and there is an unnatural way. And I swear these people in spirituality who are being masochistic to awaken are the most dangerous people to be wary of. And especially what has plagued the world are those people who infect others with such presuppositions about Nature. And people cheer on them, unfortunately. People love masochistic people, because if they see anyone taking care of themselves in a loving way, they feel jealous. I am sure Nature hates such behaviors the most. 

That is a classic appeal to nature fallacy. Nature does not care what you do. Nature has no rules.

Mahasamadhi is a classic spiritual tradition and practice. Comparing spiritual behavior of humans with animals is very misleading, because animals do not do advanced spiritual work. Animals also don't suffer in the same ways humans do.

Trust me, if your suffering became great enough, you would kill yourself.

[SpiritualAwakening]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's also not necessarily true. If he was truly ready to move on from material existence, then staying back for the sake of others would not be proper.

For himself 100%, selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family. All just because the mind has convinced you to see what happens if you choose for a 'Conscious death' by jumping of a cliff? This is still attachment and selfishness for something the idea of you has cultivated over time.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family.

That is tragic of course. But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 it is not natural to kill one's body

the option to take one's own life is also a part of nature, natural unnaturalness or unnaturalness naturalness.

[Ryan R]

@Preety_India

I'm sorry Preety. I mean no disrespect to him, his family and friends, you, or anyone. All I'm saying is that for the sake of preserving human life and this community we must condemn and not glorify suicide. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is tragic of course. But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

in the end in all honesty, who knows what was going through his mind. From the screenshots I've read it seemed like he totally gave his authority away relying on someone to give him the answer to what he thought might be a good thing to try. interpretating something someone else had said in a fashion that he found meaningful to justify his thought cycles.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

From the screenshots I've read it seemed like he totally gave his authority away relying on someone to give him the answer to what he thought might be a good thing to try.

I think SoonHei realized that asking Nahm was pointless because in the end who are you trusting but yourself? In the end he was sure that he has a good idea going and that he was convinced that the end result would be something he wanted.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

@Preety_India

I'm sorry Preety. I mean no disrespect to him, his family and friends, you, or anyone. All I'm saying is that for the sake of preserving human life and this community we must condemn and not glorify suicide. 

Showing compassion and understanding to the deceased is not glorification of suicide. 

Glorification would be if people did not feel sorry or if they cheered such an act and encouraged others to do the same.

However I didn't see that on the thread. Most people expressed regret that it happened. I don't see this as glorification but condemnation and disappointment expressed in a compassionate way.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[SpiritualAwakening]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

Sadghuru also thinks he can levitate, so who knows what to think of his thoughts or what he might have done or not.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[charlie cho]

@SpiritualAwakening I have got this inspiration from Chuang Tzu. Chuang Tzu's wife left early and he was crying for a few seconds. But after that he was found contradicting the formal rites of the funeral and was dancing and singing with his instrument. His friend asked him why he was doing that. Chuang Tzu answered, "I was sad at first of course, but I suddenly recognized my wife has died peacefully in her own course. She did not die prematurely. To be sad and cry at something what is natural is needlessly inflicting harm on oneself. So I decided to laugh and dance! Being sad in this funeral is utter stupidity! Let us not condemn nature by being sad of death, which is what happens naturally to all of existence."

Since then, only his friend stood by him dancing and singing in the funeral, and everybody left thinking Chuang Tzu was a maniac. 

Living the natural way isn't such a popular thing amongst people. People glorify what is unnatural. It is famous that confucianists hated Chuang Tzu for not following the formal rites of his wife's funeral because they were bound by systematic formalism. They criticized Chuang Tzu for being unmannerly to his wife and despising her. They got it all wrong. Out of all the attenders in the funeral, Chuang Tzu was the most compassionate, most loving towards his wife.

Most people are mannerly and civilized, but not loving or natural

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Ryan R]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I told Connor Murphy when he was trying to tell me that I was afraid of his crazy antics, I told him to make a distinction between fear and caution.

If some self-help book tells you to be fearless, does that mean you should disable the break peddle in your car?

You see how easy it is to take an innocent piece of advice such as: "Be fearless" and twist it into: "So I should never use the break peddle and never use condoms."

It's very hard to make advice that fool-proof.

I hear ya Leo. I normally draw the distinction between being fearless and reckless. If courage or fearlessness causes one to completely abandon all concern for consequences then it is at least also, if not completely, stupidity. As with mostly everything finding balance by wisdom and right judgment is the key to being appropriately fearless, but you know that.

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think SoonHei realized that asking Nahm was pointless because in the end who are you trusting but yourself? In the end he was sure that he has a good idea going and that he was convinced that the end result would be something he wanted.

If he truly thought this then I think he wouldn't have asked the same question in different ways multiple times. I think he didn't get the answer he was looking for but justified his actions by thinking he found the answer to what he was looking for.

[Leo Gura]

In general, the topic of death is very taboo in society. And for good reason. If you question death too much, you might cease to fear and hate it, and then how would we live? Life requires a fear and hatred of death. That is the ultimate bias. And playing with this bias is dangerous. Which is why exoteric religions demonize and try to control esoteric religion. Esoteric religion fundamentally is about questioning death. And you cannot allow that in a civilized society.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In general, the topic of death is very taboo in society. And for good reason. If you question death too much, you might cease to fear and hate it, and then how would we live?

 

As I'm living right now.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

As I'm living right now.

Oh yeah, then how about you remove the break peddle from your car?

(In case you're dumb: don't do that.)