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Frank Yang's video response to Leo's video - about stage Turquoise

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@Being Frank Yang Hi Frank! I'm assuming this is the real Frank Yang based on your comments and a few other things.

Welcome to the forum man, pleasure to have you. 

I've been enjoying your Youtube content for years :D 

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33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Certainly not.

You are not conscious of what Love is.

- - - - -

Actually I disagree with this Vipassana approach. It's too reductionistic. I understand what you are saying: you can deconstruct experience into discrete sensations and so forth as Vipassana loves to do, and this can be very useful and liberating. But this is not the same thing as a holistic consciousness of what things are. It's the spiritual equivalent of saying that the physical universe is nothing more than atoms. And this not correct. There is an understanding beyond the sum of its parts. Which is precisely why Vipassana people are not God-realized. They don't know what God is because you cannot know God by breaking experience down into atoms. I would further say that you cannot know what Consciousness is that way either.

There is a holistic infinite intelligence to Consciousness which is not any of its parts.

God is not any one sensation, nor can it be said to be just another experience among all the other experiences, like a table or a dog.

It is sort of like one who cannot recognize a human as a human because one insists on only seeing it as a bunch of cells. And what I'm pointing out is that something very important is missed in that approach. In fact, THE most important thing is missed. The goal should not be to atomize consciousness, but rather to interconnect it all infinitely to reach the highest understanding.

People like Shinzen Young, who spent 40 years in Vipassana deconstructing sensations are not God-realized. I questioned him very carefully. He does not understand what God is. He's a sweet and beautiful man, but God-realized he is not, and I don't want you to get trapped in that way.

People like Daniel Ingram also do not understand what God is -- even though Ingram has extraordinary technical meditative skill. Technical meditative skill is not good enough. Losing the ego is also not enough. What's missing is a holistic universal comprehension achieved by Infinite Mind. The Universe can grasp itself using its own Infinite Intelligence. And Intelligence is not any one sensation so you will never find it if you insist on only looking at individual sensations. It is the classic problem of missing the forest for the trees. Vipassana is like studying trees with a microscope and never seeing the forest.

I do not disagree with this.  If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.

During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years.  If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.

The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.   

Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.  

My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side.  So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.


 

 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

I do not disagree with this.  If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.

During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years.  If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.

The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.   

Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.  

My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side.  So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.

 

5 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

I do not disagree with this.  If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.

During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years.  If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.

The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.   

Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.  

My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side.  So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.

At the end what we're talking about is the distinction between Love and Death, emptiness and form. Interesting there is a difference "vibe" to people who's Realizations are leaned towards one side vs another.  Some Realized beings seem more "dead" than others, some are more fluid and bouncy, and are oozing out Love.  The ones who have both have the reflexivity to shift back and forth between extremes. THis is rare. Perhaps most people simply have not taken their particular method to the very end point, so the circuit does not complete itself.  All dots need to be connected to any other point, and all points penetrate themselves through and through. This was exactly what was experienced during my moment of awakening.   

Edited by Being Frank Yang

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Space said:

@Being Frank Yang Hi Frank! I'm assuming this is the real Frank Yang based on your comments and a few other things.

Welcome to the forum man, pleasure to have you. 

I've been enjoying your Youtube content for years :D 

ahah it is  good to be here :)


 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Being Frank Yang said:

 

I think the most direct and clearest way to put all those different stages of development and labels under context is the direct Realization on the NATURE OF SENSATIONS. Think of sensations as the atoms of your subjective experience, both inside and outside.  What a meditator does is "zooming" into, deconstruct and dissecting and shred Reality into sensations at the microscopic level.

All sensations are aware of themselves exactly where they are.

All sensations are devoid of self/Self and spontaneously, co-dependently arising  

No sensation "cause" or "own" another cluster of sensation.

Different vibratory velocity of sensations gives rise to the difference between "air", "liquid", "solid forms"

All sensations are in equal footing.

All sensations self-librate.

All sensations are "non-dual" in Nature, as in sensations in of themselves can't tell the difference between "God" or "poop" or "Awareness" or "Consciousness" or "Emptiness" or "Eternity" or "Love" Or "Intentions" "Matter" or "Mind" "Sober" or "Psychedelic Trip", "Time", "Space" etc

And since there is only "one substance", there is no difference between foreground and background, context and content, therefore phenomenons do not arise and pass into some "Source" that is more "real" or "permanent" 

Now the labeling of these experiential phenomenons into concepts is, you guessed it, just more sensations.  

So what's the difference between the awakened state and the egoic state?

in the former the "knots of perception" is forever untied because the nature of sensations is penetrated experientially.  Now all sensations in your entire Field of experience "Lights Up", and are aware of themselves without a delay between the perceiver/observer/Witness and the perceived/observed/Witnessed.  This is your moment to moment experience of Godhead/Infinity/Eternal Awareness because when sensations are experienced without a doer/controller/seer/hearer/thinker all 360 degrees are KNOWN and COMPREHENDED AS ITSELF without the delay between object and subject. Thus Reality feels OMNISCIENT.  

Wheres in the "egoic state" a certain cluster of sensation arise in the center of experience, usually inside the head, behind the eyes, and in places inside the body HIGHJACKS other clusters of sensations to "take credit" for other clusters of sensations that are simply comprehending themselves due to conditioning.  When this happens there's contraction of energy.  There's identification. There's the feeling of "me-ness".  

See when you zoom experiences down to the atomic level (Max effort contraction), when you can no longer divide it, this singularity loops back into the other side (strange loop anyone? haha) and becomes Infinitely Expansive. This is why the practice starts out as dissecting atoms, but at the end you end up "Vipassnalizing the whole universe" The very small is identical to the very large like the merging of quantum mechanics x Cosmology, Love x Death at the subjective level.  The parts is the Whole, the atom is the universe and vice versa.  Now you can get to the same end point either by contraction or expansion, which is why the "Do-Nothing" meditation of Infinite Awareness abiding as Itself is exactly the same as Vipassana.  And of course you can do both during a psychedelic trip :D

When you take this to the end point contraction and expansion happens simultaneously and both sides of the duality lose meaning, and you abide in Absolute Infinity AND Absolute Nothingness simultaneously.  

Now what happens when you do not see clearly the nature of sensations at all levels as empty (AND FULL), is that one particular level is always going to seem more or less "real" or "solidified" than another level, hence contraction occurs, and identification takes place.  Thus clinging and suffering.

Hope this clears some things up!

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@Being Frank Yang Wow what a quality post man. Hope you stick around the forum.

In your view what is the most direct path to understanding your highest awakening?

Edited by Raptorsin7

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Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Being Frank Yang Wow what a quality post man. Hope you stick around the forum.

In your view what is the most direct path to understanding your highest awakening?

3 hours ago, King Merk said:

 

Like what I posted to Leo, the combination of everything...Vipassana, self inquiry, Dozgchen, psychedelics, yoga and even other more unconventional methods like breathing, weightlifting, writing, making videos, even doing pick ups, everything you've ever done in your life contributes to awakening :D I think this is what me and Leo have in common, neither of us stick to one particular method or path, Guerrilla path it is lol but for some people sticking to only one method  works better so you just gotta see what works for ya


 

 

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2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

By love do you mean the emotion as felt by humans? I have always been curious on this particular factor since many creatures are not able to feel this emotion. My strongest trip was DMT on 5 hits of acid, and in this trip most of my emotions cut out and I did not feel love. Only a sense of being overwhelmed.

So I have personally avoided equating God/I (whatever term is most palatable) to specific emotion like Love over others.

My own interpretation of these experiences is that psychedelics shut down the brain to various degrees, the brain being more of a limiter. But certain aspects stay online or are stimulated. One of the most important being the memory function (black/whiteouts being unhelpful). And similarly I think these drugs in some people cause increased feelings of wellbeing, love, euphoria (among other possibilities) - for others they may experience unspeakable terror and dread, or none of these things.

4 hours ago, King Merk said:

 

Love = Life = Death = Truth = Reality = God.  It has nothing to do with human emotions. It's what's left after the separate self is dissolved. Any spec of self will be conditioned.  It's a "cold love", independent of any conditions, transcending even the need to be a compassionate Being.  But every action will be compassionate when the separation is  dissolved. It's when you dissolve the desire to help yourself or others that Love arise. The whole path of spirituality can be summed up as loving yourself so throughly that you die into the present moment so completely that you manifest all of Reality without any personal feels (but it also includes personal feels, although personally I haven't felt an "emotion" for months")


 

 

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3 hours ago, Ry4n said:

 The lowest point can be a portal to the highest one. Or at least it can be. I think it was adyashanti that described it as a limbo zone that proceeds God/Spirit. This really only applies to the meditative path though, psychedelics take you straight to source but it's not the full picture IMO. I feel like both you guys could learn a lot from each other. Or I'm just full of shit xD lol.

Yes! 

omg I know xD we need a live discussion between the two. 

4 hours ago, King Merk said:

 

I love Adyashanti, I think his Realization is deeper than 99 percent of mainstream teachers in the spiritual market place. If you look at his awakening experiences he describes experiencing both Big Bangs (Infinity) and Big Crunches (Nothingness) and anything freaky and fucked up in between. The most extraordinary thing is how ordinary he is.  One of the only beings who talk about transcending even the entire paradigm of spirituality to become an Absolute NOrmie.


 

 

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@Being Frank Yang What are thoughts on developing siddhis or super human abilities? How does that relate to enlightenment?

Like why aren't you levitating and moving objects with your mind like the x-men haha

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Posted (edited)

anyone know how to embed and post a YT video ? haha

Edited by Being Frank Yang

 

 

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1 hour ago, Being Frank Yang said:

My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side.  So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.

Yes

21 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

anyone know how to embed and post a YT video ? haha

I just copy and paste the link usually works to bring up the thumbnail

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24 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

anyone know how to embed and post a YT video ? haha

Is this the real frank? Sent you a message on insta to confirm

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Posted (edited)

It seems to me that the biggest difference between Leo's teachings and Frank's is the "Knot of Perception."  By taking meditation to its ultimate conclusion, the illusion of reality being "dead" is finally broken (this is an actual change in mental processing, where the mind no longer makes models of reality which are updated, but instead perceives it directly, 1 to 1 with sensate information).  When reality is seen as it IS, there is NO ROOM left for any "self", and the dependently originating and infinitely intelligent / interconnected nature of every particle of existence is perceived in real-time to be alive, aware of itself, and part of the infinite loop of existence. 

This infinite loop starts with you, and in the NOW continuously expands to infinite mind (through a God-mind version of the conceptual chain (ala Derrida), where every concept leads to other concepts until all of infinity is invoked, which then collapses back into infinite causality which manifests you (and every other particle) in every instant.  All of this happens Everywhere, in the Now, with Everything.  It is the great cosmic snake, with no center, no self, springing from Nothing but encompassing Everything:

torus.gif

Leo's teachings focus on the God-mind part - the part of this loop where all of infinity is known and comprehended.  Frank focuses on the whole loop.  You guys are talking about the same reality though.  When Frank says you are projecting a separate self onto reality, it's like when Leo talks about projecting math onto reality -- the concepts within "understanding" are like math - very close, but not quite IT.  And of course, they never can be.  Reality can only ever BE Reality.

@Being Frank Yang I would love to know if you agree with this.

Edited by Flyboy

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Discussions of various states of mind are really just entertaining stories.  Where is the "I" that purports to have experienced all these states?  Can you point to an I, can you localize it?  Does it really exist or are you caught in another ego trap, which btw is also not there or here or wherever you can point?  You are so wrapped up in whose state is higher (as if it mattered) and what brought you there.  I don't think any of you have realized none of these states exist and neither do you.  Only perhaps Leo, but as long as he observes from a position of I, he cannot say he is transformed nor can you.

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Certainly not.

You are not conscious of what Love is.

Appreciate the reply thank you. If it is not the emotion then certainly I do not know what is meant by it. That was one of the things I always felt most confused by in trip reports.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Eternity said:

Discussions of various states of mind are really just entertaining stories.  Where is the "I" that purports to have experienced all these states?  Can you point to an I, can you localize it?  Does it really exist or are you caught in another ego trap, which btw is also not there or here or wherever you can point?  You are so wrapped up in whose state is higher (as if it mattered) and what brought you there.  I don't think any of you have realized none of these states exist and neither do you.  Only perhaps Leo, but as long as he observes from a position of I, he cannot say he is transformed nor can you.

If a person is willing to call the everything "God" or "Brahman, then why not "I"? I'd say "I" is the best term because it is the only one which does not imply duality to an outside reader.

Edited by RMQualtrough

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@RMQualtrough Awareness is the I that is consciousness but cannot be localized.  It simply does not exist except in the mind of God.  If you ask a brain surgeon where awareness abides in the brain, they will not be able to answer.   They simply don't know.

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@Eternity Yes that would be where I got to. I used n,n-DMT a lot, as well as high amounts of LSD, often together. I am done with it all now. I was rather "addicted" for a while.

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6 hours ago, Flyboy said:

It seems to me that the biggest difference between Leo's teachings and Frank's is the "Knot of Perception."  By taking meditation to its ultimate conclusion, the illusion of reality being "dead" is finally broken (this is an actual change in mental processing, where the mind no longer makes models of reality which are updated, but instead perceives it directly, 1 to 1 with sensate information).  When reality is seen as it IS, there is NO ROOM left for any "self", and the dependently originating and infinitely intelligent / interconnected nature of every particle of existence is perceived in real-time to be alive, aware of itself, and part of the infinite loop of existence. 

This infinite loop starts with you, and in the NOW continuously expands to infinite mind (through a God-mind version of the conceptual chain (ala Derrida), where every concept leads to other concepts until all of infinity is invoked, which then collapses back into infinite causality which manifests you (and every other particle) in every instant.  All of this happens Everywhere, in the Now, with Everything.  It is the great cosmic snake, with no center, no self, springing from Nothing but encompassing Everything:

torus.gif

Leo's teachings focus on the God-mind part - the part of this loop where all of infinity is known and comprehended.  Frank focuses on the whole loop.  You guys are talking about the same reality though.  When Frank says you are projecting a separate self onto reality, it's like when Leo talks about projecting math onto reality -- the concepts within "understanding" are like math - very close, but not quite IT.  And of course, they never can be.  Reality can only ever BE Reality.

@Being Frank Yang I would love to know if you agree with this.

Yes thank you for sharing.  This is pretty much my moment to moment experience since Awakening after the knot of perception is untied. I've used this very same gif in various formats and variations in many of my videos and IG posts to illustrate Infinity/Emptiness/Form/Reality.  I think the biggest difference between us is the emphasize on having this shift permanently through meditation and self inquiry but also not dismissing the use of psychedelics.  


 

 

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5 hours ago, Eternity said:

Discussions of various states of mind are really just entertaining stories.  Where is the "I" that purports to have experienced all these states?  Can you point to an I, can you localize it?  Does it really exist or are you caught in another ego trap, which btw is also not there or here or wherever you can point?  You are so wrapped up in whose state is higher (as if it mattered) and what brought you there.  I don't think any of you have realized none of these states exist and neither do you.  Only perhaps Leo, but as long as he observes from a position of I, he cannot say he is transformed nor can you.

This is also true.  All experiences after Realizing of Anatta are simply by products. The REalization itself is not an experience.  You cannot locate the "I" at all. No source. No center.  Before Realization is stabilized and before center is completely dissolved getting lost in the experiences can bring out more ego conditionings.  As I've said many times before, having jhanic experiences and psychedelic trips while you still have a center is possible but if you play with sensations too much or is too attached to "Godmind", it'll get you stuck.  All experiences such as Strange loops, micro and macro levels, Pure Consciousness/Awareness etc comes naturally after you Realize No-Self. IN fact they can only be manifested purely with No self, and by the time you stabilized Anatta experiences don't matter anymore.  


 

 

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