How to reach deepest state of consciousness without psychedelic?

[machiavelli]

I had been meditating since quite a long time. And want to access more deeper states of consciousness . I cant have access to psychedelic as its illegal in my country.

How can I reach total stillness and silence 24x7?

How can I reach deepest state of consciousness (Without using Psychedelic ) 24x7 by keeping my innate logical, analytical and computational thinking alive? 

I meditate half hour daily btw.

How do you achieve deepest state of consciousness using meditation. A state of non self 24x7.

[The0Self]

Constant self inquiry.

Who knows there's an I? It's circular. I imagines it's there. Eventually what may occur is the revelation that nothing is actually happening. It's all a dream -- understanding the universe into existence by trying to make sense of infinity.

Edited May 3, 2021 by The0Self

[Sempiternity]

Is it impossible for you to travel outside of your county? If this is truly your desire, you can find a way. Psychedelics is the answer you're looking for, the most direct route to the deepest state of consciousness. So I would suggest putting you energy into making that happen. 

[The0Self]

9 minutes ago, Sempiternity said:

Is it impossible for you to travel outside of your county? If this is truly your desire, you can find a way. Psychedelics is the answer you're looking for, the most direct route to the deepest state of consciousness. So I would suggest putting you energy into making that happen. 

^^

OP: Especially if you've never tried psychedelics. If you have, then I'd say perhaps forget about it for the time being, and do self inquiry. But if you haven't tried them? Maybe plan to at some point in the near future. No rush, but there's definitely some potential there.

[Consilience]

8 minutes ago, Sempiternity said:

Psychedelics is the answer you're looking for, the most direct route to the deepest state of consciousness.

Be careful with this attitude. They are the most direct route but also extremely fleeting and not great for accessing deep states 24/7.

@machiavelli You’ll need a very rigorous formal practice like self inquiry or meditation, think 2+ hours per day, going on yearly retreats or more, and will need to either practice mindfulness 24/7 or as @The0Self mentioned, 24/7 self inquiry. 

Psychedelics are fantastic, and you should definitely find a way of incorporating them into your “spiritual work” but to integrate these profound states into daily life, you’ll need manual practice. But make no mistake, you can profoundly increase your baseline, sober state of conscious. Cannot emphasize this enough.

 

[Consilience]

One thing Id like to add about this manual practice path, the build up is really fucking slow, but after a certain point you’ll start to experience exponential take off with the states your capable of reaching while sober. Lookup “Shinzen Young’s hockey stick metaphor” on youtube for details on this dynamic. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Consilience I wonder if doing psychideilcs has allowed you go to deeper into sober meditation than you otherwise could have.

I've heard one story on a podcast of someone claiming that after smoking DMT a person was able to access those heightened without DMT. It's like DMT opened the pathway, but who knows how long it would have taken to open the pathways without DMT.

[James123]

@machiavelli half an hour wont work. At least 3-4 hours a day. In darkness and silence. 

[James123]

43 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@James123 Most people would pass out after 10 minutes or less.

If you can go for 3-4hrs; I'll suck your dick ?

Lol. ? Ones, you know how to completely let go and be as thoughtlessness, there is no time there. You wont be aware how long you sit, because there is no you or I there, no thoughts. However, body can gives problem with the pain of sitting or need to drink water,  but if the long term sitting meditation is every day, you wont even remember yourself to drink water, and body gets used to it after a while. So 3-4 hours is easy. Just must be in darkness and silence thats it. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I wonder if doing psychideilcs has allowed you go to deeper into sober meditation than you otherwise could have.

I think so. I think psychedelics + having a really solid epistemological framework from Leo’s videos has definitely increased the effectiveness.

Psychedelics are so powerful at blasting through the mind’s blind spots... combine that with intense practice and man you’ve got the mother of all combos. It’s unfortunate so many people on the forum dismiss the effectiveness of practice. Doubt is one of the big hinderances Buddhism talks about, and for good reasons.

 It took me about 1000 hours of meditation in around 3 years before things started to really take off, but wow once it starts taking off there’s no going back. I think everyone’s requirements will be different but psychedelics and deep philosophical inquiry via Actualized.org videos helps speed things up, a lot actually. EDIT: And using a technique or techniques that resonate with you. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Consilience

[James123]

48 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Alright. But I wasn't pointing to 'basic' meditation. Rather; a form of shamanic breathing. It's way more intense. That's why many pass out so fast

Oh, ok

 

49 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

And yes, it's true that you lose all sense of time whilst in it. But your alarm does not.

Friday, Saturday night no need an alarm ? lol. It is nice to get lost ??

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, machiavelli said:

A state of non self 24x7.

Only thoughts make it seem otherwise. 

[machiavelli]

@James123 Will it allow us to reach non dual states ?

I want to reach deepest state possible using meditation. Currently I do meditate for half an hour daily. But the effects come down if stop doing for even one day.

 

[Nahm]

17 hours ago, machiavelli said:

I had been

I cant have

my country.

How can I reach 

How can I reach

my innate logic

I meditate 

 

Quote

How do you achieve deepest state of consciousness using meditation. A state of non self 24x7.

 By recognizing those are thoughts. Aka self referential thinking. The ‘one’ all those thoughts are about, the ‘one’ separate of consciousness which can obtain, attain, reach, has been, owns & claims, will be, x level of itself, etc... those are thoughts about a separate self, but where is that which is thought about? Use the finger, point to who / what you’re actually talking about. Is there even “a thinker”? 

If every single person on earth is believing the same, still, awareness of thoughts, and no more. 

Settle for thoughts about a self. 

Or self inquire, and meditate. Without the thinking about the you awakening, awakening ensues for no one. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@machiavelli Thoughts are not a problem when you simply let them arise, do their thing & fall. 

Is a laptop a problem if you use it for your essential tasks & then shut it down for the night? 

 

[Breakingthewall]

19 hours ago, James123 said:

Ones, you know how to completely let go and be as thoughtlessness, there is no time there. You wont be aware how long you sit, because there is no you or I there, no thoughts

I am increasing to 2 hours a day and it is getting easier, lately 45 minutes seems like 10 but it is not something completely "good". I arrive at an unlimited emptiness, with hardly any thought, there is no time, there is nothing there. like you says, before birth. but it's intimidating, it looks like death. yesterday I tried to hold out as long as I could there and I had a physical reaction, nausea for hours. Later there is a great feeling of freedom, like no ego, very present, but also the feeling that behind this appearance there is only emptiness, nothing, zero, death. it's like a bad 5 meo trip. there is no enlightenment there, only nothing. Still I look for every moment to see it again

[James123]

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@James123 Still; even 4hrs of regular meditation is pretty impressive. Good for ya ?

Thanks brother ??

6 hours ago, machiavelli said:

@James123 Will it allow us to reach non dual states ?

I want to reach deepest state possible using meditation. Currently I do meditate for half an hour daily. But the effects come down if stop doing for even one day.

 

Yes, but “you” can not reach it, you are a belief or thought. Must let go the thoughts, which is you. Thought free. 

Definitely, dedication is must. Everyday meditation, and if it is not enough, mindfulness while you are eating, walking or whatever you are doing. Be still, present  be in the moment, which can not be with thinking. 

 

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I am increasing to 2 hours a day and it is getting easier, lately 45 minutes seems like 10 but it is not something completely "good". I arrive at an unlimited emptiness, with hardly any thought, there is no time, there is nothing there. like you says, before birth. but it's intimidating, it looks like death. 

Enlightenment has nothing to do with good or bad, it is just the Truth, thats it. There is nothing there, which is what you are. Whatever was before so called birth, thats what you really are “being”. 

 

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

yesterday I tried to hold out as long as I could there and I had a physical reaction, nausea for hours.

See this is ego, tries to survive, mind chatting, while just a thought process. When deep diving happens, you realize that you or self or mind get distance with You. You become still, and thought process talks by itself. Such as you become still and aware that mind is saying these sentences. 

 

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

feeling of freedom

Even air has heaviness, imagine how light is being nothing. ?

[Breakingthewall]

@James123 i cannot "be" nothingness, only see it as one who looks out into an abyss. there is calm but also rejection. do you access that every day? how long, if i may ask?

[James123]

56 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@James123 i cannot "be" nothingness, only see it as one who looks out into an abyss. there is calm but also rejection. do you access that every day? how long, if i may ask?

You are already nothing. ? just attachment with thoughts brother thats what is all about. I dont think much, and every moment aware that mind is an illusion and even if bothers, it doesn’t come from me. So i dont pay attention to it.  when so called monkey mind talks there is nothing there so, just freedom and enjoying the moment. Thats it. Relaxing. 

Additionally, thats why enlightenment is important, after so called mind transforms, for example you think you are human and in life and trying to realize what you are, after enlightenment you are already what you are, and rest is a thought thats it. So shifting take place. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by James123

[Breakingthewall]

@James123 yes, we are nothing, amplitude without limits, zero. but there is a problem here: we also exist as "something". I think that enlightenment is more than liberation and nothingness. Maybe my ego can't accept be nothing, of course, but there is something!. 

And yes, it's liberating, relaxing, resting in the present at the end. But same time it's like sad. The void where there is no where or when, no shape, no energy. Always the same moment, the zero moment. What a party. But same time, there is a big party. The universe is. Impossible to understand that duality right now

Edited May 4, 2021 by Breakingthewall