Danioover9000

Debate on socialism and capitalism

25 posts in this topic

   This debate is about socialism and capitalism. Here, we get to see how a socio-libertarian's view and bias unfolds with a determinist's, due to them having a history. Also good to note the can of worms on the video.

 

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1:16:10  is this unhealthy green? 

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We already had this debate in the Chomsky thread and I lost


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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Ugh.... How insufferable.

I'd rather watching two dogs chase their own tails for 3 hrs.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I watched this whole thing, complete shitshow.

it wasn’t really a socialism vs capitalism debate. It was more a debate about the nuances of what standard you should hold your personal actions in the real world in relation to your socialist ideals. Interestingly, even Vaush doesn’t believe it’s wrong as a socialist to employ workers or be a landlord 

Edited by Joel3102

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2 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

I watched this whole thing, complete shitshow.

it wasn’t really a socialism vs capitalism debate. It was more a debate about the nuances of what standard you should hold your personal actions in the real world in relation to your socialist ideals

I think these two just hate each other some it's going to devolve into some "got ya" bullshit 

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Didnt find a longer loop


Certified lazy skeptic and armchair philosopher

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Watched this one on stream and oh boy.. I think you'll start to find most debates very pointless having watched enough of them. And I only realized recently how much of a distraction these debates and political discourse on twitter and twitch (through streamers) are. 

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The Founding Fathers would be proud if they knew we were trying to have serious discussions about government over Twitch while playing Fall Guys.

And then we act surprised why our government is so fucked.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Sry I timestamped Destiny's video so it was off. 

Can anyone explain Vaush's perspective to me? 

Why would you value political efficacy over truth and assume that people won't do the opposite of what you want when they figure out your misleading them? 

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The big oversight that people like this make is confusing truth with persuasion.

Truth has little to do with persuasion, and what these YT debaters are doing is playing persuasion games. Debate is not a valid method of accessing truth.

Just because something sounds persuasive or reasonable does not make it true.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I made it an hour into it. I can't listen anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The big oversight that people like this make is confusing truth with persuasion.

Truth has little to do with persuasion, and what these YT debaters are doing is playing persuasion games. Debate is not a valid method of accessing truth.

Just because something sounds persuasive or reasonable does not make it true.

Agree, but if you're trying to persuade someone and you make an obvious lie they'll automatically pull away and you won't be able to get them to the place that you want. Some might even go to the opposite direction. 

That's what I don't understand why would you lie about something just so you could get a more emotionally charged argument? It would only work with people who already agree with you. 

Edited by Opo

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@Opo I don't think Vaush is saying to lie to people. He was talking about presenting a strong rhetorical case more than a focus on facts or data. Which is how you persuade people.

The entire reason right-wing media is so persuasive is because they focus on culture war emotional issues. It has nothing to do with truth, facts, data, or policy. The average rube does not care about anything but emotional appeals.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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There's a huge amount of history between Destiny and Vaush that you're missing if you haven't watched Destiny's content before. I'm actually surprised they made up after Destiny's Twitch departnering...

13 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

I watched this whole thing, complete shitshow.

it wasn’t really a socialism vs capitalism debate. It was more a debate about the nuances of what standard you should hold your personal actions in the real world in relation to your socialist ideals. Interestingly, even Vaush doesn’t believe it’s wrong as a socialist to employ workers or be a landlord 

Vaush says he believes this, but it seemed fairly unclear throughout the course of the debate what he actually believed. First, he said it's fine to legally participate in a capitalist system. Destiny replied that you then can't criticize any capitalists then as long as they are legally participating in the system. Vaush seemed not to agree with this, but when Destiny asked him for an example of bad things for a leftie to do under capitalism, he couldn't really come up with anything. I think that Vaush generally believes that you can participate in capitalism as a leftie, but would want you to do better.

I generally don't agree with Vaush's idea that, supposing it's being a landlord is immoral, it's fine for you to be one because someone else will come and replace you if you don't.

I'm not sure if I agree with Destiny that the online left is just as bad as the online right in terms of misinformation. The Gamestop stock misinformation was pretty bad (Destiny is actually going to compile a write-up soon of all the misinformation that was pushed, vs. what actually happened), and there's a lot of stupid people on Twitter, but Vaush correctly says that the right has legitimate QAnon people in office around the country. Destiny did say that he thinks 'in real life', people on the left push less misinformation, he just really despises the online socialists.

Destiny is salty about misinformation on his side, say with the Breonna Taylor case, because when he goes to talk to his mom (a conservative) he has to be like, "yeah, okay, this was wrong, and this is also wrong, but this stuff is definitely true, please believe me." He also just despises misinformation. I've experienced similar things with my dad (although, usually, his version of the left's facts are what people like Alex Jones' says that the left is saying). 

All in all, I usually like Destiny, despite the fact the can be extremely toxic when he's mad. His takes are usually fairly informed. He doesn't always angrily debate random people, he also talks to experts, talks to local political people, has streams where he does research, etc. Recently, he's been doing a lot of canvassing and trying to get active in real-life politics. His work in Georgia was probably decently influential since there wasn't any need to sway a huge amount of votes! 

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Personally my main gripe with Capitalism is how it thrives on Imperialism and third world exploitation 


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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Call me stupid but Destiny pegs me as yellow. It is just strange that he seems to not understand that systems will always have contradictions.

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