Question for guys - Have you ever wanted to be a girl just to be able to give birth?

[Nemra]

@Preety_India

I understand you. I'm not saying the love that we have is a belief, I'm saying that the need that we should experience that kind of love is a belief. I'm not saying you shouldn't carry that belief, I'm just saying it's simply a belief.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Understander

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Why don't men desire having kids as much as women do?

They do want to have babies as much as women do, but this desire is apparent to them as the drive to have sex with hot females. We are only capable of avoiding having babies because we can:

1. foresee the consequences of ejaculation (not at all obvious) 
2. have the means to do so (contraceptives, technique, etc).  

We are able to do this effectively for the past 100 years, maybe.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Since men don't give birth or experience pregnancy, it should make more sense that they would want to have kids. I mean if kids = survival.

The most sex a man can get is in a relationship. When a woman in a relationship is pregnant, you are both pregnant. Unless you are a sociopath, that is.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Why are women so specific about that desire? Why do they focus on certain things and disregard others? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

I don't understand this question.

Oh, and sorry for ridiculing you, this was actually fruitful.

Edited January 27, 2021 by tsuki

[Applegarden]

36 minutes ago, Understander said:

@Gesundheit

I have been living away from my family (but not entirely on my own) for about 10 years. When I compare it with the another 10 years, I see the pros and cons of it.

I have become an "independent" thinker, I'm doing practical part that is needed for me and just only being away from them has made me grateful for what they had done for me. Even I love them, I can't overlook the beliefs that they have planted in me. Every time, when I question them, they get angry at me, but eventually they understand it or they don't care about it. Where I'm living, having family is the most important thing to do and questioning it will be one of the hardest things to do. So, what I'm saying is, yes giving birth is beautiful experience, but should you have that experience is a belief. And why do anyone would want that, because he/she is surrounded by the people that hold that belief. And questioning that belief can be a "sinful" thing to do to them. This belief has kind of served its purpose, but it is time to be conscious. I'm lucky even to be able to question my beliefs, but that doesn't mean I should not do it nor should anyone.

I think it will take years that people will consciously want to have a baby.

 

Yep, I also have people in my life reducing you to subhuman if you don't want to have a relationship and children. Immagine destroying yourself and getting mad, projecting violence towards somebody just because you think they should be your way. Thankfully it's none in my family.

[tsuki]

There is also a semantic point to be made here. Distinctions are dual. When we define women as humans with the biology that creates babies, then the other category has to be opposite. When you ask the question "why women want babies?" in this setting, it does not make much sense. In this setting, you cannot be a woman if you don't want babies. It's a matter of identity, on top of biology.

Edited January 27, 2021 by tsuki

[Eren Eeager]

pregnancy sucks. We must find away around it, synthetic wombs. If I was a woman I would not get pregnant, maybe I would adopt some kid .

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, tsuki said:

There is also a semantic point to be made here. Distinctions are dual. When we define women as humans with the biology that creates babies, then the other category has to be opposite. When you ask the question "why women want babies?" in this setting, it does not make much sense. In this setting, you cannot be a woman if you don't want babies. It's a matter of identity, on top of biology.

Having children is a matter of biology because the body produces hormones. 

It's a scientific survival based process for all species. 

And at the fundamental levels, we are animals. But we like to think we are different because of additional cognitive faculties. 

But remove all that helps to make decisions, then we come back to animal state. 

Modern living removes interest in children. 

In the 4th century, not having children would've been considered unthinkable, not just culturally but biologically as well.. 

Our evolution has definitely shunted and diminished some of those raw animal instincts. 

 

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Eren Eeager said:

pregnancy sucks. We must find away around it, synthetic wombs. If I was a woman I would not get pregnant, maybe I would adopt some kid .

It does not suck! What do you guys think you are doing in meditation? Connecting with your body and experiencing that it's not your own. What do you think pregnancy does for women? 

You take something profound and say it "sucks". Just like your very own life. Fear of pregnancy and sort of dismissing the whole thing as survival dismisses your very Self. 

Dismiss the self, not the Self. Tricky non-distinction, I get it. Sigh.  

[Preety_India]

I find it funny how someone who doesn't want kids demonizes those who have kids and those who have kids demonize those who don't. 

It's a weird dynamic. 

I think there is nothing wrong with either 

With the fall in family values across the globe, more people are into demonizing those who want children or already have kids. 

Kinda reverse mode. 

[Eren Eeager]

@mandyjw It actually consumes your body. But yeah it may be a good experience but hey taking a shit can be a profound experience as well.  

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Dismiss the self, not the Self. Tricky non-distinction, I get it. Sigh.  

This is so beautiful Mandy. 

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I find it funny how someone who doesn't want kids demonizes those who have kids and those who have kids demonize those who don't. 

If I'm not sure about my decision or completely aligned with my desire to have or to NOT have kids, I'll demonize others who decide differently to try to feel OK about my own decision. I might even try to control what other people want because I think that I can control what I want too. Doesn't work, but people try.

It helps to realize that everyone is just trying to feel better, everyone wants to be loved and accepted for who they really are. We all want the same thing ultimately. 

[Preety_India]

Just now, mandyjw said:

It helps to realize that everyone is just trying to feel better, everyone wants to be loved and accepted for who they really are. We all want the same thing ultimately. 

This is the ultimate reality, so true. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Dismiss the self, not the Self. Tricky non-distinction, I get it. Sigh.  

This is so beautiful Mandy. 

[Nemra]

@Preety_India

That's why (not) having kids have to be done consciously to really appreciate that kind of experience. Here the key difference is conscious and unconscious. But even when you do it unconsciously, you will eventually become conscious about it. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Understander said:

@Preety_India

That's why (not) having kids have to be done consciously to really appreciate that kind of experience. Here the key difference is conscious and unconscious. But even when you do it unconsciously, you will eventually become conscious about it. 

Yep. Kinda complex. 

[tsuki]

47 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Having children is a matter of biology because the body produces hormones. 

It's a scientific survival based process for all species. 

And at the fundamental levels, we are animals. But we like to think we are different because of additional cognitive faculties. 

But remove all that helps to make decisions, then we come back to animal state. 

Modern living removes interest in children. 

In the 4th century, not having children would've been considered unthinkable, not just culturally but biologically as well.. 

Our evolution has definitely shunted and diminished some of those raw animal instincts. 

 

@Preety_India Sorry, can't tell whether you agree or disagree. I feel like you just repeated my previous post.

Edited January 27, 2021 by tsuki

[Espaim]

Quote

Thank god I'm not able to become pregnant, pregnancy is so stressful, scary and terrible!

 

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

They do want to have babies as much as women do.

Looks like you haven't read the comments here.

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

The most sex a man can get is in a relationship. When a woman in a relationship is pregnant, you are both pregnant. Unless you are a sociopath, that is.

How does that relate to the inquiry? Men can be supportive, but they can't be pregnant. It's the difference between putting your hands in water and her hands on a stove. It's not at all possible to share a woman's struggles of pregnancy and giving birth.

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

I don't understand this question.

Oh, and sorry for ridiculing you, this was actually fruitful.

Didn't know you intended to ridicule me. The question was about how some women are specific with what they want their kids to be like. Like they're ordering a doll or something.

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

There is also a semantic point to be made here. Distinctions are dual. When we define women as humans with the biology that creates babies, then the other category has to be opposite. When you ask the question "why women want babies?" in this setting, it does not make much sense. In this setting, you cannot be a woman if you don't want babies. It's a matter of identity, on top of biology.

Of course, I don't mean all women. But I think 70% is a fair percentage (majority). This is from my own life experiences, and from this forum. The context I'm using here is the majority of men vs. the majority of women. I think the forum, and this thread in specific are a good specimen and represent reality well enough.

[Gesundheit]

3 hours ago, Understander said:

@Gesundheit

I have been living away from my family (but not entirely on my own) for about 10 years. When I compare it with the another 10 years, I see the pros and cons of it.

I have become an "independent" thinker, I'm doing practical part that is needed for me and just only being away from them has made me grateful for what they had done for me. Even I love them, I can't overlook the beliefs that they have planted in me. Every time, when I question them, they get angry at me, but eventually they understand it or they don't care about it. Where I'm living, having family is the most important thing to do and questioning it will be one of the hardest things to do. So, what I'm saying is, yes giving birth is beautiful experience, but should you have that experience is a belief. And why do anyone would want that, because he/she is surrounded by the people that hold that belief. And questioning that belief can be a "sinful" thing to do to them. This belief has kind of served its purpose, but it is time to be conscious. I'm lucky even to be able to question my beliefs, but that doesn't mean I should not do it nor should anyone.

I think it will take years that people will consciously want to have a baby.

 

Hmmm, group-think sounds like a possible answer. Although, I think there is a biological component to it too.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

@Preety_India Sorry, can't tell whether you agree or disagree. I feel like you just repeated my previous post.

When I'm agreeing with you, think that I'm agreeing with you. When I'm disagreeing with you, think that I'm agreeing with you. Both ways you're winning. 

 

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Looks like you haven't read the comments here.

You missed the rest of the paragraph that contained the point.

The distinction between wanting to have a baby (women) and wanting sex (men) is relatively recent. So saying that men don't want babies is inaccurate because men want sex.

Edited January 27, 2021 by tsuki