GroovyGuru

Is investing in Crypto just a get rich quick scheme?

221 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

BitCoin is like what the internet was back in 1994.

 

It's "Bit"c"oin" ahahahaahh stop write with "C" AHAHAHAHAHAHA

My ego couldn't hold it anymore.

And yeah Leo I like your visionary worldview about things.

For sure in a decade we will have 100 times better coin.

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10 minutes ago, RoerAmit said:

It's "Bit"c"oin" ahahahaahh stop write with "C" AHAHAHAHAHAHA

My ego couldn't hold it anymore.

 

??..

Edited by neutralempty

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3 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

??..

I mean he just wrote it wrong.. 

It's "Bitcoin"

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4 hours ago, tsuki said:

 

Privacy in most cryptocurrencies is held by obfuscating the relationship between a wallet and a specific person. But the transaction graph is publicly available and it is relatively easy to trace each coin from generation to its current address of ownership.

I don’t understand. Which is it? I thought ownership was supposed to be anonymous. This is the headline I woke up to this morning

C7F99DB2-44F0-4937-808E-0746678D87DA.png

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4 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Lyubov These are valid points. Here are my thoughts about it:

I think that this is the biggest reason for volatility. I agree that this is a big issue with crypto and this is why I said few posts back that the technology that will allow for widespread adoption is probably 20 years from now. The biggest obstacle is scalability, slow confirmation times, as well as difficulty of use. All of these points are solvable given enough time.

While this is true for the big daddy BTC, not much so in the case of ETH. Ethereum is a decentralized computing platform where you run your software. It has an internal market because you pay in ETH for execution of smart contracts that give interesting technological opportunities for developers. its biggest advantage is that software that runs on etherum blockchain is trustless. There is no centralized authority that can cheat and control the outcome of events. This is why I think that ETH is much more valuable than BTC, not because of its value as money itself (the first point, inaccessibility), but because of how you can use it. I like the analogy someone posted here that if BTC is looked at as gold, ETH is like oil.

What companies, exactly? Most cryptocurrencies are open source. You mean crypto exchanges?

There are cryptocurrency services that trace transactions and rate the money on each BTC address by whether it came from drug dealing, hacks, and other illegal activities. These coins are basically gone from the general circulation because no exchange will accept them for trading. 

Privacy in most cryptocurrencies is held by obfuscating the relationship between a wallet and a specific person. But the transaction graph is publicly available and it is relatively easy to trace each coin from generation to its current address of ownership. There are of course some cryptos that are even more obfuscated, like the ones based on mimblewimble protocol, but they are not nearly as widespread as the BTC-like ones.

Some interesting thoughts you bring to the conversation. 

I want to clarify that I am not talking about the potential of crypto currency in the future or any sort of decentralized variants. I'm talking about BTC specifically and the current state of where this technology currently is. 

I have never heard of ETH. I'm still not entirely sure what is backing it though that gives it legitimate value. I also went to the wiki page to learn more about it and in the first section they say there was $50 million worth of it stolen or something? Stuff like this will make it very hard to earn over the public' trust in using these types of currencies. 

Yes, I meant crypto exchanging platforms.

I am hesitant to believe how effective these crypto trackers are at screening for coins used on the black market or how effective they are or what work arounds there are. I need to read up on this more. Darknet drug markets only continue to grow and BTC is still their preferred method of payment so it doesn't compare to a securities and exchange commission or the secret service looking into counterfeit money.

Edited by Lyubov

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@GroovyGuru The most personal information that the blockchain holds is the address of your coins. Roughly speaking, address is generated from the public key that can be used to validate whether you can move these coins to another address. You, as a person, hold the private key and it is never registered on the blockchain. Everybody that have your private key, can move your coins.

The blockchain itself, is a sequence of transactions, each either moving the coins from one address to another address, or awarding you coins for creating blocks (mining). There is no way to tell who owns coins on a specific address, unless the private key has been found on their computer, or they disclosed the information themselves.

So, by observing the movement of the coins through the blockchain, you can know whether coins are "dirty" by knowing that they passed through specific addresses that are known to hold money for illegitimate purposes. For example, if SilkRoad wallets are known, then all coins that come out of that place are considered fraudulent. Another example would be busting drug cartel hard drives and finding private keys with massive amounts of BTC. Looking back at the transaction history in the blockchain, you can reason about addresses that took part in the transactions.

This is not so simple in general, because rating services offer percentage of safety, so there is some leeway in interpretation, but it is possible to know whether coins are safe.

There are even more obfuscated blockchains out there, mimblewimble protocol being the basis of them. The mathematics are more involved, but thanks to this implementation, it is not even possible to decipher the transaction graph, or even how much coins were transfered. The only thing that is possible to validate is whether coins were not created out of thin air. The only legitimate way of creating coins is by mining.

Edited by tsuki

The true heresy is hearsay.

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34 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I have never heard of ETH. I'm still not entirely sure what is backing it though that gives it legitimate value. I also went to the wiki page to learn more about it and in the first section they say there was $50 million worth of it stolen or something? Stuff like this will make it very hard to earn over the public' trust in using these types of currencies. 

@tsuki Ethereum is unique in that instead of simply transferring money between accounts, you can also deploy code that users can interact with. This code can, for example, send money held by the contract. This gives the potential to create contracts between parties, some of which give rise to an analog of digital companies that sell their shares for ethereum. The hack you are talking about regarded such a company. The code that was deployed on the Ethereum blockchain was faulty and a hacker used its vulnerability to steal some of the money that was deposited by shareholders. it is important to note that this was not a bug of the Ethereum itself, but rather in third-party software that Ethereum was running.

Since it happened in early days of Ethereum and it concerned a lot of users, it was decided (by the community) that the blockchain will be manually rolled back to the state from before the hack. There were controversies around this topic and this actually created two versions of ethereum, one where the hack didn't happen, and the other, where the hacker has his money. The latter is called Ethereum Classic (ETC) and is understandably much less valuable than ETH itself. 

The controversies regarded the interpretation of how deployment of smart contracts should be considered. In ETC, smart contracts are basically considered law. The code defines a deal and if you can't see loopholes in it, then it's your fault and it is legal to use the loopholes by everybody. This is considered a "feature" of trustlessness of ETC. By deciding to fork and revert the state of the blockchain, ETH decided that it is the intent of the contract that matters. There are however, no safety features to revert smart contract actions in ETH. A rollback like this would be extremely unlikely nowadays.

Edited by tsuki

The true heresy is hearsay.

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There is no privacy with BitCoin any more. That myth was busted years ago. Feds will track you down if they want.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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The tulip bubble, price of a tulip went as high as the price of a mansion. 

A little insane seeing as flowers die... 

Edited by integral

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7 hours ago, integral said:

The tulip bubble, price of a tulip went as high as the price of a mansion. 

A little insane seeing as flowers die... 

this is literally what bitcoin is

 

Edited by Lyubov

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@Lyubov @integral fascinating videos.  Definitely something to consider and ponder

Edited by GroovyGuru

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ETH shout out at the end xD

Edited by Lyubov

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2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

this is literally what bitcoin is

No, BitCoin has way more merit and value than stupid tulips.

BitCoin can serve as a global digital gold reserve. That's a pretty big deal.

Of course it can still be over-hyped, but it does have merit. We just don't know what it's ultimate value will settle at and which crypto coin will come out on top.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I have crypto just because there is no better option. I don't want all of my money in fiat currency. It is either fuck or get fucked. Sometimes there is no in between.

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2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I have crypto just because there is no better option. I don't want all of my money in fiat currency. It is either fuck or get fucked. Sometimes there is no in between.

There is real estate, stocks, etc.

If you want a solid investment look into real estate.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Just now, Leo Gura said:

There is real estate, stocks, etc.

Those will be heavily devaluated during a market crash. Especially real estate here in Europe: it is heavily overpriced and artificially kept high by the banking system. Even they admit the situation is not sustainable on the long term.

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25 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

heavily devaluated during a market crash

Real estate keeps its value very well and even adjusts for inflation because everyone needs it. Crashes are temporary and nowhere near as bad as a BitCoin crash. A BitCoin crash would wipe out your investment in one week. Real estate will never do that. At most it crashes 20-30%, and then rebounds after a few years and such crashes happen once a decade or less.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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41 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I have crypto just because there is no better option. I don't want all of my money in fiat currency. It is either fuck or get fucked. Sometimes there is no in between.

Stocks tend to protect against inflation as well as they move in line with inflation. There hasn’t been a 10 year period in stock market history where you would have lost money in a fully diversified market portfolio.

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49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, BitCoin has way more merit and value than stupid tulips.

BitCoin can serve as a global digital gold reserve. That's a pretty big deal.

Of course it can still be over-hyped, but it does have merit. We just don't know what it's ultimate value will settle at and which crypto coin will come out on top.

this is speculation. you're conflating the future potential of what the technology/crypto currency will be and bitcoin. I said it in my earlier post. I am not talking about the potential of crypto. I am talking about bitcoin specifically. who knows what crypto and the subsequent systems around it will be in 50 years. in the mean time though all these ploys for it are pump and dumps with winners and losers. 

Edited by Lyubov

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19 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

this is speculation. you're conflating the future potential of what the technology/crypto currency will be and bitcoin. I said it in my earlier post. I am not talking about the potential of crypto. I am talking about bitcoin specifically. who knows what crypto and the subsequent systems around it will be in 50 years. in the mean time though all these ploys for it are pump and dumps with winners and losers. 

No

Markets are forward-looking. People are looking to get in on the ground floor of an important new technology. BitCoin is not some future potential. It is already here. If the full potential of digital currency is ever realized it will be worth trillions. But it is not clear how or when this potential will be realized. BitCoin may not be able to do it.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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