There is no final awakening

[How to be wise]

Lots of spiritual teachers (like Adyashanti) always talk about a final awakening, the destination to be reached. I must say that I find that very unlikely. I’ve experienced many awakenings that have felt like the ‘final awakening’. In fact, after some of those awakenings I even stopped meditating, because I was so convinced that I was ‘there’. But I was always unsatisfied, and just assumed that there is an even higher awakening. And guess what, there was. 
 

My point is that there is no final enlightenment. Wherever you are, there’s infinitely more awakenings waiting for you. This journey will never end. 

[Inliytened1]

@How to be wise  indeed because you are Infinite.  And you can hit infinite states of consciousness.   The hard part is for most this will never occur at all.   Or it is  once in a lifetime.  And once in a lifetime is not really a problem in a deep, full awakening - since you become conscious of all of reality.  Your life will never, ever be the same.  That is awakening.  You will know when that happens.

[James123]

59 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

y point is that there is no final enlightenment. Wherever you are, there’s infinitely more awakenings waiting for you. This journey will never end. 

This is completely wrong. When you realize that there is no you that have experience anything. Such as even the word of experiencing is you. You are the experience and experiencer itself. You can not experience anything, you are everything because you are nothing. Thats final awakening. 

59 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

 

Lots of spiritual teachers (like Adyashanti) always talk about a final awakening, the destination to be reached.

 

These guys have been meditating for decades. Of course they are right. Dont trust your “self” to much. Go deeper till no”i” to experience anything left. You need to experience nothingness.

Peace! 

Edited December 19, 2020 by James123

[Inliytened1]

@James123 yes brother once you become pure Actuality by realizing directly the self is an illusion that is it.  There is no mistaking it and your life will never be the same because it was seen through

This dissolves the ego and God breaks through the chains of the dream.  But then one as God , the formless, can still have realizations.  Such as the nature of itself.  It can become conscious of it's Nothingness or its Everythingness.  For it is truly Infinite.   It can become conscious fully of Itself which is identical to Bliss or falling in Love with Itself.   So notice the thoughts of the ego are first dissolved but Infinite Mind is what dawns.

[electroBeam]

34 minutes ago, James123 said:

These guys have been meditating for decades. Of course they are right. Dont trust your “self” to much. Go deeper till no”i” to experience anything left. You need to experience nothingness.

"these guys" = thought

"have been meditating" = thought

"for decades" = thought

"they are right" = thought

"dont trust your self to much" = thought

"you need to" = thought

"experience nothingness" = thought

True nothingness has no teachers meditating for decades. True nothingness has no you experiencing nothingness. True nothingness has no trusting yourself. If you haven't gotten that yet, you haven't gone deep enough.

And when you realize there are no teachers meditating, what the truth is doesn't depend on other teachers, it depends on direct experience, and direct experience includes way more then nothingness, it includes everythingness.

[James123]

@electroBeam

hours ago, James123 said:

These guys have been meditating for decades. Of course they are right. Dont trust your “self” to much. Go deeper till no”i” to experience anything left. You need to experience nothingness.

As ı said,  Go deeper till no”i” to experience anything left. Because, you become nothing with letting go and surrendering. Because whatever you have identify yourself is something that you hold on to. you just need to drop down everything with surrendering. 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

And when you realize there are no teachers meditating, what the truth is doesn't depend on other teachers, it depends on direct experience, and direct experience includes way more then nothingness, it includes everythingness.

There is no such a thing as everythingness. nothing is everything such as, formlessness can take any form. But there is no deeper than formlessness. Because Everything is nothing. Thats why me, nature and you are identical. Because our connection that makes us identical is, we are nothing. İt is very clear too realize that you have no idea what are you talking about. instead of trying to debate, learn and let go the person, which 'your' 'self'.

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

direct experience includes way more then nothingness,

Funny. When you become directly nothing there is no more deeper than that. Brother have a direct realization and talk. Dont come up to me with stuff that you have learned. Please. 

Peace! 

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

yes brother once you become pure Actuality by realizing directly the self is an illusion that is it.  There is no mistaking it and your life will never be the same because it was seen through

 

Definitely brother.

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

his dissolves the ego but then one as God , the formless, can still have realizations.  Such as the nature of itself.  It can become consciousness of it's Nothingness or its Everythingness.  For it is truly Infinite.  

But, nothing is everything such as, formlessness can take any form. But there is no deeper than formlessness. Because Everything is nothing. Thats why me, nature and you are identical. Because our connection that makes us identical is, we are nothing. Therefore infinite.

Edited December 19, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

The final awakening is the recognition there was never a "ME" or a "YOU" to awaken in the first place.

But it has to be seen there.

It's so obvious it seems hidden.

❤

 

 

 

 

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

But there is no deeper than formlessness.

At the no self level:

"deeper" = thought = False.

"you" = thought = False.

You have no evidence/realization that deeper was ever true. You're making that up. Pure imagination. You've never had a realization that deeper was a thing. You don't have any evidence that "you" got "deeper". 4 years ago was formlessness, now is formlessness. You never realized no-self. James never realized no self, James is not awake. James was as no-self realized 4 years ago as he is NOW.

You also don't have any evidence that a "you" actually "dissolved". That's purely made up. You have no evidence that you ever had an ego. 4 years ago, no ego. That's what no self realization teaches you, that the ego was never there in the first place. Its not that the ego disappeared, its that it was never there, thats why the realization is so powerful. God/Nothingness realized that you and deeper were never there.

 

But (and this is stuff James is totally misleading seekers about) Because you never realized no-self(because there's no you or deeper - ever),  no-self was happening even at the beginning of the spiritual journey, you cannot make a distinction between what was experienced(not by a you, just by nothingness) after no-self realization, and before no-self realization. egoic consciousness vs post no-self realization is a false dichotomy. Both are just as true as each other(because no self realization is true, no self realization was literally happening 4 years ago, therefore egoic consciousness has to be just as true as no self realization. If you actually think that egoic consciousness was false and post no self realization is true, just contemplate where your evidence is, that is a wrong assumption. ego consciousness = no self realization consciousnes = Trueth). That's why some teachers say you are already enlightened(like alan watts).

Yet people actually think they have an ego in egoic consciousness, and that's because its not actually there, that's because it seems to be there. Its an optical illusion. Its a dream. It both exists and doesn't exist

So if egoic consciousness is just as true as no self realization, then what's actually false?

Egoic consciousness is the only place where a "false" can actually occur. And if everything in egoic consciousness is True, then have you ever actually experienced a "false"?

All those no self realization beings out there, go contemplate if "false" is actually a thing. If you have ever experienced a false before.

Nothing is outside of consciousness, so what was actually false?

The next realization (after no self realization) is the realization that false = true. There never actually was a false. Everything that's false was true. False vs true is redundant, its useless. Because everything is true, including false.

EVERYTHING IS TRUE. egoic consciousness is true, ego is true, no ego is true, 3D world is true, no 3D world is true.

Both the universe is nothing is True AND the universe is everything is true. There's no false here.

Yeah its all a dream/illusion, the ego is a dream, the 3D world is a dream, but everything in the dream is true, you've never experienced an actual false.

So how is it possible to have deeper realizations? What's not true? What's false? Its as simple as that. The universe is literally infinite. Which means deeper realizations are true.

Caveats

• You can still be deluded, for sure, but delusion is true. Just because delusion is true doesn't mean you shouldn't point out delusion. Its important to point out delusion so that you can reduce suffering and be happier.
• If everything is true then why dont I see green elephants in the world? The universe is infinite, yet you are viewing the infinite from a finite mind. That finite mind has all the properties of the finite, and finite means some things have manifested while others haven't. Yet to someone who knows the infinite, its as clear as day that reincarnating into a world with green elephants is totally possible.

 

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Thats why me, nature and you are identical.

"me", "nature", "you", "identical" are all thoughts on a no self realization level.

2 hours ago, James123 said:

İt is very clear too realize that you have no idea what are you talking about.

from no self realization POV:

"you" = thought. Its impossible for me to realize anything because from your POV I am LITERALLY your imagination. The stuff you conjure up about "me" is pure delusion. Pure projection. You talk about realizing nothingness, yet you act as if I actually have substance, I actually have a brain that can realize things. This is not proper teaching of no self realization. This is a subtle duality.

Proper teaching of no self realization does not assume what others have realized or not, because all that stuff is delusion at the no self realization level.

 

This is probs gonna be the last time ill try to point to something beyond no self realization, I dont think I could explain it any better then this. If this is useless/goes on deaf ears, then so will everything else.

Edited December 19, 2020 by electroBeam

[James123]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

At the no self level:

"deeper" = thought = False.

"you" = thought = False.

At no self level there is no false or true.

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

. It both exists and doesn't exist

There is no such a thing as exist or not exist. It is exist and not exist from egoistical perspective. When non duality happens, all becomes 1, which is nothing. But this is not the case for ego, you can clearly see you define as exist and not exist at the same time. 

 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

So if egoic consciousness is just as true as no self realization, then what's actually false?

You are completely wrong. When there is an awakening, there is no egoic consciousness, all becomes 1. After that realization happens that was never a egoic consciousness. Therefore egoic consciousness and no self realization is not same. Because you are still looking from DUALITY PERSPECTIVE.

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

• You can still be deluded, for sure, but delusion is true. Just because delusion is true doesn't mean you shouldn't point out delusion. Its important to point out delusion so that you can reduce suffering and be happier.
• If everything is true then why dont I see green elephants in the world? The universe is infinite, yet you are viewing the infinite from a finite mind. That finite mind has all the properties of the finite, and finite means some things have manifested while others haven't. Yet to someone who knows the infinite, its as clear as day that reincarnating into a world with green elephants is totally possible.

Nothing has never happened. But for you it is true and happening. Therefore these explanations are given to you. For ‘me’, time has never began nor me. I am already what i am, but you duality goes on therefore explanation is happening. 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

he next realization (after no self realization) is the realization that false = true. There never actually was a false. Everything that's false was true. False vs true is redundant, its useless. Because everything is true, including false.

There is no false or true. Everything is NOTHING. You conceptualized awakening. 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

VERYTHING IS TRUE. egoic consciousness is true, ego is true, no ego is true, 3D world is true, no 3D world is true.

Both the universe is nothing is True AND the universe is everything is true. There's no false here.

There is true and false from dualitic perspective. From non dual there is no such a thing as true or false. All is NOTHINGNESS.

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

So how is it possible to have deeper realizations? What's not true? What's false? Its as simple as that. The universe is literally infinite. Which means deeper realizations are true.

Nothing has never began. Nothingness has no beginning therefore no end. 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

ou" = thought. Its impossible for me to realize anything because from your POV I am LITERALLY your imagination. The stuff you conjure up about "me" is pure delusion. Pure projection. You talk about realizing nothingness, yet you act as if I actually have substance, I actually have a brain that can realize things. This is not proper teaching of no self realization. This is a subtle duality.

Proper teaching of no self realization does not assume what others have realized or not, because all that stuff is delusion at the no self realization level.

 

These are not sentences, they are all nothing from non dual perspective and nothing for me.  But you are me and thats why i am trying to help you. For you duality still goes on. Therefore these explanations are given to you. If you realized non duality, there is no need to explain to you anything. If you have realized nothingness, you would already realize these all words are identical. If you want detail answer of this sentences you can got post of leos wonderland. And read page 6-7 conversations between ‘me’ and ‘crazytobetoocrazy’. “I” did “my” best fo “you” brother. Awakening is not being selfish, it is been selfless. Otherwise “i” will never explain anything.

Edited December 19, 2020 by James123

[Gesundheit]

Haha! It's not that there's no final awakening. It's that after you have the final awakening, no more awakenings will be considered awakenings by the mind. The mind will be completely absent at that point that the whole awakening thing will fall apart.

Or, so I think...

[electroBeam]

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

You are completely wrong. When there is an awakening, there is no egoic consciousness, all becomes 1. After that realization happens that was never a egoic consciousness. Therefore egoic consciousness and no self realization is not same. Because you are still looking from DUALITY PERSPECTIVE.

I know but thats clearly not correct even from your POV. Because "after" is an illusion because theres no time. There cant be a before and after, because before and after are 1. Its a duality to say after realization everything goes to 1. Theres no after, everything is one from eternity. Everything is true.

What im trying to communicate though is meaning is still obviously occuring even if everything is one. You dont have dementia/amnesia. You can still tell differences. You havent lost the ability to tell differences. Yes all these words are 1, you still understand them. Thats important. It means these meanings are still happening within consciousness. You dont have dementia/amnesia. Everything is one yet you still understand meaning. I agree that true and false are ultimately 1. But you can still understand what true and false are. You dont have dementia and say "wait whats the word true? Ive forgotten" no you still know what it means. If you know what it means its a distinction. Which means it still exists. You cant seriously say that distinction isnt existing when clearly you are aware of the distinction because you dont have amnesia. I seriously cant see how you can use meaning and distinction to write to me and understand me, and then deny meaning and distinctions exists as if you have dementia. You havent escaped the finite because you dont have dementia and still understand/are aware of meanings. Its like you're trying to prove to me you have complete dementia/amnesia while writing to me.

Once you accept/acknowledge that while everything is 1, but also you haven't escaped thoughts or meaning because that still exists, then Leo's endless wonderland makes sense. Deeper realizations doesnt mean that you stop saying everything is 1, of course it is. But you realize deeper meanings. 

I dont think false and true are a real distinction, but they are a pointer to the fact that while everything is 1, theres still meaning too, theres no dementia here.

[James123]

51 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Yes all these words are 1, you still understand them. Thats important. It means these meanings are still happening within consciousness. You dont have dementia/amnesia. Everything is one yet you still understand meaning. I agree that true and false are ultimately 1. But you can still understand what true and false are. You dont have dementia and say "wait whats the word true?

How do you know that these are words? How do you take this granted that they are words? Is there any so called universal law it says this is a word? Who teach you that? How do you know that the “person” who teaches you is right? Or is that “your” direct experience? 

Your first question should be, is it even possible to learn something? What is learning?

51 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Its like you're trying to prove to me you have complete dementia/amnesia while writing to me.

What is dementia/amnesia? If “you” have never learn them can it be real for “you”? If you never learn “yourself “ can you be exist? What is being “exist”? Probably “you” learned that too, as learning “your” “self”.

Edited December 19, 2020 by James123

[electroBeam]

@James123 I think I finally "figured out" what's the go with you hahaha. Maybe I didn't though, doesn't matter because I just got some huge insights anyway that's gonna help me a lot. I found this convo fruitful, thanks.

In a nutshell, I don't actually see words. I don't actually see meaning. I don't actually see any of that stuff. Its impossible to deconstruct what words are using words, because whatever I come up with, it will be seen as another conceptualization, because that's what words are. If we were to conceptualize though, words ARE infinite intelligence or infinite love or nothingness or whatever ya call it. There's no meaning, no words none of that stuff in actuality. Saying so is of course absolutely delusional. Its literally not there. 

I don't really care how you describe it, because I don't see meaning. So all meaning is stripped off from every word all the time. All I see is intelligence and knowing. That's why if you tell me "the ego is real" I'll be like cool that's awesome. If you tell me "the ego is not real" ill be like cool that's awesome, because when you strip off the meaning of both of those sentences, they both = infinite intelligence. So I literally don't give a fuck about what you write. On a practical level though, if you are a seeker and I feel (with infinite intelligence) that telling you "the ego doesnt exist" is gonna help you, ill write that. If I sense that youre too stuck on "the ego doesnt exist" I'll mind fuck you and say something like "the ego does exist" not because I believe its true, but because there's no meaning and only infinite intelligence so the meaning doesnt matter what matters is helping you. That's what I was trying to describe above.

BUT, there is an infinite intelligence/nothingness "knowing" of what "meaning", "words" are. That knowing is not a conceptualization. You cannot put it in a box and say here it is, because its infinite formlessness. And this is obvious, because you knew, you had intelligence to know that some people actually believe meaning is real or exists, when it definitely doesnt. Or one or nothingness, however you wanna describe it.

How you're meant to use my posts, is to completely strip off all the meaning and just feel the intelligence that "I" "inject" into it. The meaning and concepts and all that crap doesnt matter. Because its literally not there. I'll contradict myself without worry because it literally doesnt matter. Its just fucking intelligence. In a sense, all thats happening is you are sharing love to you through these posts completely devoid of meaning. Thats all this thread is, you sharing love/intelligence to you.

Even though you realize meaning literally doesn't exist and you're "awake" doesn't mean you can't deepen your awakening. Rupert Spira talks about deepening awakenings if you really need to ride off another teacher for confidence. I can share a video. Compassion deepens awakenings, you feel more love, get a deeper connection with source when you do compassionate things or connect with others. Or when you meditate. You aint a 100% saint after awakening, you can still deepen it. Leo's endless wonderland is just deepening awakening, thats it. Its just feeling more love and intelligence. Its well beyond realizing that meaning literally doesn't exist. Its well beyond concepts. Realizations at that stage are just explosions of intelligence, another aspect of deepening awakenings with compassion.

Anyway, I contemplated your perspective and realized you actually thought I thought meaning literally existed, then once I realized that, all of your posts made total and utter sense. It was an epiphany. So I'm pretty sure I know where you're coming from now, even if it seems to you im totally deluded or retarded or whatever, you're literally me from my perspective so it doesn't matter an awful lot if thats the case, it just matters what epiphanies i got. You've just reminded me that people can actually believe meaning literally exists, which is helpful for my expression. So thanks for that, I don't think I need to ask ya any more questions.

Edited December 19, 2020 by electroBeam

[mandyjw]

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

A watched pot never boils and there's no "we", "there" or "yet"

3 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Haha! It's not that there's no final awakening. It's that after you have the final awakening, no more awakenings will be considered awakenings by the mind. The mind will be completely absent at that point that the whole awakening thing will fall apart.

Or, so I think...

Your thoughts are an object of awareness, and mind notices contrast. So if you've been holding a lot of beliefs that are causing you to resist, and then one or more of those beliefs is let go, the feeling of lightness is incredible, blissful. Mind notices the contrast, just like when you have the stomach flu for a day and suddenly recover, you feel a sense of bliss. Contrast is created by mind. You didn't gain anything but you released an unconscious tension. It's ok to want the bliss, but to get it you have to not hold it apart from yourself in mind created tension of time and space. 

So when people are like, "it's already done, there's nothing to want, you're enlightened", they are 100% right but can in their own experience unconsciously cover over or resist desire. Resisting desire or search is resistance and an unwillingness to explore desire or search. 

Then when people are like, "there's infinite levels", they create a story that of themselves in a position on a ladder or path suggesting that they are somehow lacking, or not where they want to be, which can hold them in an experience of lack. 

Either take-a-way or conclusion to this problem can perpetuate resistance. That's why we debate this so much. Someone tries to find security in one or the other, and the other senses the security and feels insecure in response. Neither of these take-a-ways are right, yet they both are true. All you can do is become aware of your own resistances by feeling into them. 

Excitement, mystery and anticipation of what may come is an amazing feeling that can only be experienced right now. In the actual experience of that feeling, there's no story of time or location. 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by mandyjw

[Breakingthewall]

@James123 Infinity is the great annihilator. Anything divided by infinity = nothing. That is why it is said that reality, the dream, is an illusion, because when you contrast it with the infinite it disappears, it is revealed as nothing. But it still exists and that is the mystery. Those who you said that they have meditated 20 years, or 40, always speak of the great unknowable mystery. Infinity is nothing but it has a quality, something, it is

[Blanchflower]

I still do not understand this. If we are all One, does that mean we created the universe? Is it more accurate to state that we are part of One (God) and not God? If it is the case that there is Oneness, then we also crated the universe. The ant also created the universe.

This does not make sense.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Blanchflower

[James123]

57 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@James123 Infinity is the great annihilator. Anything divided by infinity = nothing. That is why it is said that reality, the dream, is an illusion, because when you contrast it with the infinite it disappears, it is revealed as nothing. But it still exists and that is the mystery. Those who you said that they have meditated 20 years, or 40, always speak of the great unknowable mystery. Infinity is nothing but it has a quality, something, it is

Go deeper. That infinity will crush into singularity, which is nothingness. Pure and empty. Before the big bang. Forget everything you know. Infinite is still something that you have learned. Anything you have learned is not it. Stop believing in 5 meo too much or stay in wonderland. EVen if you don’t believe in “me” listen the man of intelligence. Go deeper till there is no one left to experience anything. Be no one, be nothing.

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

a nutshell, I don't actually see words. I don't actually see meaning. I don't actually see any of that stuff. Its impossible to deconstruct what words are using words, because whatever I come up with, it will be seen as another conceptualization, because that's what words are. If we were to conceptualize though, words ARE infinite intelligence or infinite love or nothingness or whatever ya call it. There's no meaning, no words none of that stuff in actuality. Saying so is of course absolutely delusional. Its literally not there. 

Definitely. Forget everything you know, such as infinite, infinite, intelligence, mind or whatever you have learned. Question is this, what is the only thing that you can not learn, feel, sense or understand? Empty your cup. 

 

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Even though you realize meaning literally doesn't exist and you're "awake" doesn't mean you can't deepen your awakening. Rupert Spira talks about deepening awakenings if you really need to ride off another teacher for confidence. I can share a video. Compassion deepens awakenings, you feel more love, get a deeper connection with source when you do compassionate things or connect with others. Or when you meditate. You aint a 100% saint after awakening, you can still deepen it. Leo's endless wonderland is just deepening awakening, thats it. Its just feeling more love and intelligence. Its well beyond realizing that meaning literally doesn't exist. Its well beyond concepts. Realizations at that stage are just explosions of intelligence, another aspect of deepening awakenings with compassion.

Lol. ?????If “i” shaved my head and wear some guru close stuff. You might think that “i” am a saint instead of wearing black suit, because gurus or saints wear guru’s clothes. Mind loves to conceptualize everything. ??? you made me laugh man. Love you! But let me give you hint, when the so called mind goes, there will be no more awakening. Because every moment is identical and meditation. Because naming and labeling of the words ended. “I” said meditation for your perspective.

All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?” “Buddha”. 

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

UT, there is an infinite intelligence/nothingness "knowing" of what "meaning", "words" are. That knowing is not a conceptualization. You cannot put it in a box and say here it is, because its infinite formlessness. And this is obvious, because you knew, you had intelligence to know that some people actually believe meaning is real or exists, when it definitely doesnt. Or one or nothingness, however you wanna describe it.

Forget EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED. What is the only thing that can not be told,  understand and conceptualize? You are already NOTHING. Stop learning, forget everything. Let the clouds go. 

 

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Anyway, I contemplated your perspective and realized you actually thought I thought meaning literally existed, then once I realized that, all of your posts made total and utter sense. It was an epiphany. So I'm pretty sure I know where you're coming from now, even if it seems to you im totally deluded or retarded or whatever, you're literally me from my perspective so it doesn't matter an awful lot if thats the case, it just matters what epiphanies i got. You've just reminded me that people can actually believe meaning literally exists, which is helpful for my expression. So thanks for that, I don't think I need to ask ya any more questions.

Edited 56 minutes ago by e

You are me, because we are nothing, therefore unconditional love. 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by James123

[Nahm]

‘Final awakening’ is a thought about yourself. You’re what thought is made of. Thought attachment is the missing of this (yourself), by considering if the thought is true or not. The consideration of final awakening or not, is monkey mind.

 

[VeganAwake]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

‘Final awakening’ is a thought about yourself. You’re what thought is made of. Thought attachment is missing this, by considering if the thought is true or not. The consideration of final awakening or not, is monkey mind.

 

❤

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake

?? ♥️

It really is The Good News folks!