For the 100th time; does mars exist??

[arlin]

If you go down this rabbit hole you will go crazy, im warning you.

[Gesundheit]

@Leo Gura You do realize that Mars here is a metaphor?

[Nahm]

@SamueLSD

I hear ya & what you’re asking. Rupert explains this perfectly well without contradiction. It is a central theme through all of his work. Similar to contemplation, the answer (and there is an answer) can only arise (or be heard) in the emptiness of letting the question & questioner go. What @arlin said is true. This is literally experiencing all shades of ‘mental illness’ directly and losing your mind. This equates to peace, actual sanity, rather than acquiring a lasting mental illness. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I thought that the point was another, like even direct experience through your senses is only in the mind

Direct experience is not in the mind or of the senses. That's more stories you're inventing.

Direct experience is Absolute Truth. Just stop projecting your crap onto it.

[snowyowl]

21 hours ago, SamueLSD said:

So, my question: Are things outside of my direct experience  -  including the perspective of another  -  imaginary in the sense that reality is imaginary, ( and they DO exist but I just haven't experienced them in their actuality ), OR are they imaginary in the sense that the idea of Santa Claus is imaginary, and are literally not there until I in some way observe them / experience them?

I know about my own direct experience, but to say something doesn't exist because I'm not aware of it is going too far IMO. I don't know what I don't know, just because I can't prove something's existence (by being aware of it) doesn't prove it doesn't exist. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence. 

On the other hand, every object we do 'know' about is built up theoretically from the building blocks of awareness and thought. Let's think about the human process. We're born as babies who have an oceanic awareness without thought or delineating 'everything' into 'things'. Then we gradually learn to discern different things - eg mummy, daddy, hunger, food, warm, cold, toys, sounds, colours etc, which we are taught have names (special types of sounds which label or point to an experience). 

So, by the time we've grown up we have various layers going on. Direct awareness itself. Carving up and dividing awareness into named 'things'. Creation of conceptual models about the causes of our carved-up awareness. In this way, the entire objective universe we 'know' is actually a gigantic  mental map which has been constructed by ourselves and our culture. Including the structure of an inner subjective experience and an outer objective world 'causing' the experience. 

 

@arlin  "If you go down this rabbit hole you will go crazy, im warning you."
Too late, by the time I got to your post I was already half way down and couldn't turn back ? 

Edited November 22, 2020 by snowyowl

[arlin]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

said is true. This is literally experiencing all shades of ‘mental illness’ directly and losing your mind. This equates to peace, actual sanity, rather than acquiring a lasting mental illness. 

This equates to peace? Ahahha

I think if you have people to support you or guides, not if you do this alone

[Breakingthewall]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Direct experience is not in the mind or of the senses. That's more stories you're inventing.

Direct experience is Absolute Truth. Just stop projecting your crap onto it.

??iTs  not that I'm saying!! I'm explaining bad ...I'm not projecting any crap, I'm doing a mental exercise about the existence of Mars without haven't seen, theory, mind, game...do you think that that kind of exercise can open any mind, make the ego softer? Could be,Idk, I don't see how, but still doing because you never know, that is what I'm trying to understand

Edited November 21, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[arlin]

27 minutes ago, snowyowl said:

Too late, by the time I got to your post I was already half way down and couldn't turn back

No. You can forget about all this and brainwash yourself back to normal again. 

You can do it.

[Nahm]

18 minutes ago, arlin said:

This equates to peace? Ahahha

I think if you have people to support you or guides, not if you do this alone

That is actually mind. 

[arlin]

@Nahm Seriously. Don't you think this work is too dangerous to do alone? At least to a certain point.

You could end up fucking yourself up.

If you want to do this alone it's fine. Im just saying.

[Eren Eeager]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

First, get the basic distinction between a belief and direct experience of a thing.

So a belief would be anything short of being that thing itself? Like seeing a thing is a belief, and being it is an experience? Is that what you mean?

[Someone here]

Nothing exists except the stuff that is occurring in your (my) direct experience in the NOW.

Existence =NOW. Ideas about here and there.. Now and then and back then.. Up there and down here..themselves must occur NOW for them to be just more concepts occurring again NOW. 

I like what @Gesundheit said. It's not that there is an absolute static truth about whether "Mars" "exists".. There is no such thing as "Mars".. For all you know mars could be exploding and getting destroyed now.. So it exists at one point and it doesn't exist in the next moment.  How about when you are dreaming and completely lost in your dream..mars doesn't exist in the context of your dream world. Just like a flying spaghetti monster does not exist in this world as far as we can tell.. But who knows maybe it exists in some other dimension! You see it's all relative. Identity itself is relative to time and change. Existence itself is relative to a frame of reference and to an observer. 

So does mars exist? Yes and no without a doubt relative to whatever you imagine this question even "means" lol. But don't go looking for an absolute answer. No idea is absolute. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Someone here

[Nahm]

39 minutes ago, arlin said:

@Nahm Seriously. Don't you think this work is too dangerous to do alone? At least to a certain point.

You could end up fucking yourself up.

If you want to do this alone it's fine. Im just saying.

I don’t know about ‘too dangerous’ but if I didn’t think it was useful & helpful I wouldn’t be doing the work so to speak. I have talked with many who would have been much better off with some guidance in the front end, no doubt about that. I’ve seen years, lifetimes really, of misunderstanding, anguish & suffering resolved in an hour or so more often than I would have ever guessed. It’s ultimately always a one off, like snowflakes and water, which in large part makes for the difficulty but also the fun. 

[No Self]

8 hours ago, SamueLSD said:

Does Mars exist?

Computers process data as 0s and 1s. The human brain is just another computer. Hence it loves true/false, yes/no, good/bad, etc. You are not that.

The answer to the question is to discard the question, and the questioner. The truth is as it is.

[Osaid]

You underestimate how much of your life is imagination

If you pay attention to your direct experience, you will see that you are constantly presupposing imagination on top of reality

8 hours ago, SamueLSD said:

I've listened to Leo, Rupert Spira, and others, and they indeed say history, planets, basically anything outside of my own experience is completely imaginary and a belief, only for them to contradict themselves . For example, they directly refer to the experience of others as if it exists. How does that work? 

Because they are speaking relatively. They have to, so that people understand them in those contexts.

[oMarcos]

You are imagining your entire conceptual "reality", you just have trouble to realize this because it is Absolute and very persistent. What so called "Outside reality" doesn't exist in the sense that you are imagining it. Be very practical about this, It's more obvious and easy than you think, no science needed, no hocus pocus.

Other things still exist, but also they "don't exist" in the sense that they are just your "imagination". 

A practical  thought exercise:

Try to imagine a random person you never met and seen in your life anywhere... It is possible indeed to imagine that hipotetical person with your mind's eye, but that won't make it real, just like anything else outside direct experience, but yet, there are plenty of people that you can still meet and they even might look just like the one you imagined before. So obvious, right?

Edited November 22, 2020 by oMarcos

[SamueLSD]

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

 @arlin said is true. This is literally experiencing all shades of ‘mental illness’ directly and losing your mind. This equates to peace, actual sanity, rather than acquiring a lasting mental illness. 

So, I continue down the rabbit hole? 

 

[SamueLSD]

20 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

It exists as pure potential. Now what is pure potential exactly? 

 

I feel this answer is what I am looking for. It makes perfect sense, even though it doesn't.

Others replying believe that I'm a materialist looking for a direct answer, however I was mostly just confused as to how certain teachers explain the nature of consciousness. Of course mars exists, it is literally physically affecting me right now, as all things are entangled. Which also implies it doesn't exist separately from everything else ( Oneness )

 

 

15 hours ago, snowyowl said:

I know about my own direct experience, but to say something doesn't exist because I'm not aware of it is going too far IMO.

 

I feel like you are right. It feels right to say; We are consciousness experiencing an inkling of the creative potential of consciousness, (that inkling being the 'physical' Universe ) through the limited perspective of mind. In other words, consciousness is the mind, which is limited ( finite ), but consciousness is not limited to the mind ( infinite ). I am not experiencing mars (this metaphor is getting old but I cannot stop using it lol) if I think about it, that is just thought, and if I actually somehow see it, I am still not experiencing it, that is just a sensation of sight. HOWEVER, its nature can be experienced through an awakening.

 

Basically what I have learned from all these replies is: let go. 

Which I can now do with less resistance because I've gained some clarity.

[Nahm]

@SamueLSD

?

In this particular regard, this insight, or, revelation...imo...no. I wouldn’t suggest thinking about it or pursuing it at all. I’d let it go completely. I would be single pointed in the opposite, more foundational sense, with daily morning med, clean diet, aligning thought w feeling, using the dreamboard and co-creating the greatest life you can dream up. Knock your own socks off if you will, with this life as the creator you are. 

[SamueLSD]

18 hours ago, arlin said:

If you go down this rabbit hole you will go crazy, im warning you.

Indeed, which is why I made this post