I don't want a romantic man anymore

[Preety_India]

23 minutes ago, MrBON said:

So a confident independent caring kind person (does not have to be assertive or dominant or edgy or any of that shit)

This is what I meant to say on this forum all along and nobody really understood what I was saying because they just don't think it even exists. 

They take confident as to mean something ruthless. A big blindspot. 

[MrBON]

@Preety_India Being confident is a must for any human being. Thing is that the way for a person to seem blatantly confident is if he acts arrogant and like he is the shit (fake confidence but people buy it sometimes).

 

[Akemrelax]

 No offence... but this sounds like a guy who fucked all the hot chicks and then in the end goes to the average nerdy girls because they make better mothers and wives... Had all the fun but when you need a life partner you chose the boring old nerd you use to scoff at... such is survival. 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, MrBON said:

@Preety_India Being confident is a must for any human being. Thing is that the way for a person to seem blatantly confident is if he acts arrogant and like he is the shit (fake confidence but people buy it sometimes).

 

Yea true confidence is getting rarer and fastly getting replaced by fake confidence and most people are unable to notice it in the times we are living in. 

 

[Preety_India]

 

3 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

 No offence... but this sounds like a guy who fucked all the hot chicks and then in the end goes to the average nerdy girls because they make better mothers and wives... Had all the fun but when you need a life partner you chose the boring old nerd you use to scoff at... such is survival. 

A good analogy lol. But hey I wasn't really looking for fun. I never rejected any good guy. A good guy would have been a lottery for me. Sadly a lot of the guys are players 

If I want a good guy, it's like I'll have to approach first. But then again approaching is so not a woman thing! 

 

[MrBON]

@Preety_India Where do you live and how old are you if i can ask

[Opo]

13 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I understand that point. But frankly I have never lied to any of my partners. So it doesn't matter what others think. But hey there are a lot of people who don't lie. It's not some saintly virtue. 

To me being honest is just being simple and frank 

I don't see what I'm going to achieve by being Dishonest. Absolutely nothing. 

And to me a relationship can never work on the foundation of deception and lies. That's what I told my ex. His deceptions eventually became visible. 

Lying is not black or white. Like saying you didn't do something when you did. There is a lot of grey and small lies that we don't consider being deceitful or manipulative. 

For an example putting on a fake smile after a guy that you like makes a bad joke is a form of lying. 

Makeup is basically a deception and there must be a million more examples. 

13 hours ago, Preety_India said:

And to me a relationship can never work on the foundation of deception and lies.

Maybe we subconsciously think our relationships can't work on the foundation of truth so we all make up a million different little lies. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, MrBON said:

Not all guys are PUA dicks that cant treat girls right.

Careful, not all dicks who mistreat women are PUAs. That's a very problematic conflation.

Ordinary guys mistreat more women than all the PUAs in the world.

Guys with poor dating and poor social skills are not angels. They creep women out big-time.

Let's not pretend that a non-PUA will not manipulate women. He certainly will, just with less skill.

[MrBON]

@Leo Gura Manipulation yes. Everyone does manipulate unless you are a VERY developed person. However i was talking more in terms of cheating, abuse, physical abuse etc. Most guys do not do these things in relationships, it is usually the bad characters that do that (pua or not). Personally almost all my guy friends for example are very strict regarding loyalty in relationships and would never physically abuse a woman. Even verbally i do not think so. Subtle lying, manipulation etc is another story. I am talking more about the hardcore stuff. It depends on person i guess, idk.

I have a question btw, since i am a virgin and a bit young (like 21), if i am on a date with a girl and she asks about it what would you recommend me to say so she wont loose attraction. Should i own it? Lie about it? Or bang a hooker so i get some basic sexual experience (hookers are legal where i live and quite cheap and safe). Would appreciate a short response  

 

[flowboy]

On 18-11-2020 at 9:42 AM, Preety_India said:

@electroBeam  

By a hurtful asshole I mean a man who engages in the following behaviors

• Dishonest
• Lying or liar 
• "Wandering eye" 
• Cheater
• Constant manipulating type 
• Constant gaslighting type
• Abusive name calling/bullying 
• Stalking /harassing 
• Manipulative mind control 
• Obsessed 
• Threatening 
• Upsetting 
• Insensitive asshole, overly judgemental 
• Sexually abusing 
• Abandoning /disappearing 
• Unfaithful 
• Flip flopping 
• Two Faced/Backstabbing 
• Blackmailing /emotional blackmailing 
• Excessive love bombing as a bait /trickster 
• Says mean hurtful things, rubs salt into wounds 
• Financially scamming
• Unloving 
• Uncaring and Unempathetic 
• Hostile 

 

My expectations in a relationship 

• No cheating. Faithfulness 
• Loving and caring 
• Respectful 
• No lying, no Dishonesty
• No abuse 
• No manipulation 
• Gentle nature 
• Strict with morals 
• Understanding and maturity 
• Not a control freak 
• Straightforward and direct. 
• Simple and sensitive to women's emotions. 

@Preety_India I would consider myself a reasonably romantic man. I do shit like pluck a wild flower and bring it to her, compose a well thought-out fruit basket and bring it to her when she's feeling under the weather, come up with creative date ideas, bring surprise picnic baskets to park dates.

I say really sweet things when I actually feel them. That way they don't come off too cheesy. I like to hold hands.

I don't constantly do things like this, but when I do, it is out of a spontaneous inspiration to do something nice and loving. Not to get some reaction out of her. (Of course I hope she will like it, but mostly I like to do it)

I don't spend much time thinking about what romantic actually means, so maybe you mean different things.

But my point is: I don't do any of the things on your list there. And I bet there are many like me. I'm not that special.

[flowboy]

On 18-11-2020 at 0:56 PM, Preety_India said:

 

Yes this is what I have been trying to do along with keeping my senses open to the flaws of my partner so I don't get scammed again. 

 

@Preety_India I hate to be harsh, but this is actually how you attract more of the same (more people with these flaws will come into your life, your partner will display more of these flaws). Because you are thinking about it. See also what @mandyjw wrote.

So if you're looking for an explanation of why these types of men keep showing up in your life: part of that reason will be that you haven't fully processed your trauma and therefore are a beacon that attracts more of the same.

I know this from personal experience. I used to attract bullies and being bullied and being challenged into fights, wherever I went. For a long time I could not understand why this kept showing up for me. Until I learnt that because I still had pain and unforgiven hurt, it was still part of my energy pattern. It still occupied part of my thoughts. That attracted more people prone to playing out the same pattern with me.

I was still putting energy into avoiding bullying. That caused me to basically beam "BULLY ME PLEASE" into the universe. That caught the attention of all the people who were prone to the opposite role of that pattern.

Similarly, people who have been abused by their partner and haven't fully processed it (meaning forgiveness has taken place and no thought energy is spent on it anymore), become a beacon that screams "ABUSE ME PLEASE", like neon letters above their head.

Once you complete whatever therapy form you choose, you will really be surprised at the amount of righteous men that suddenly appear in your reality!

Of course you may still have the same partner by then. But it will still be nice to see that around you, know they exist and that the world is not as dark as it once seemed.

I really want that for you

[Preety_India]

@flowboy yea you are just being a good lover to your partner and of course you are romantic from your descriptions. 

In the thread the word romantic has been used in a different context to mean a guy who is easily charming to most women, very flirtatious and knows how to make any woman feel good, such men are generally the player types because they acquire these qualities by approaching many women and trying to impress all of them. Of course most women resonate and respond positively to such men because they are charming to most women but they are also mostly the player archetypes. They just know what makes every woman tick. Now initially it's a joy to be around such a man, but as the relationship progresses, there are cases of cheating, and then there are instances of abuse, manipulation, lying, gaslighting, dishonesty, flip flopping etc this leads to terrible heart break and trauma post break up. So the general context of the post was to serve as a reminder that it feels nice around a player but it hurts in the end. 

One way to screen or filter a player is the component or quality of being romantic and flirtatious. Most men who are good at flirting with most women make up the majority of the player archetypes. This becomes an easy factor for screening. 

The metaphorical meaning of the post is that what attracts a woman to a man becomes the nail in her coffin. She might romanticize and fantasize such a man (my mom used to always fantasize such men and tell me how boring my dad was, but my dad was actually a nice faithful guy, never cheated or hurt her, but he wasn’t romantic, he didn't know how to flirt, the funny part being that my mom always dreamt of meeting such a flirty guy, however I as her daughter fulfilled that dream and met several such men only to be screwed over by them, I told her that so she would know that it's not really worth being with such men, they end up hurting in the end and she will never realize that because she never met such a man, essentially speaking my father was eventually the best man for her in my eyes because he always protected her although he wasn't attractive or charming, he had a great heart, he cared for her till he died so it was ironic for me to realize what she always wanted was a farce ) so the moral of the story is to look for a man with a good heart rather than a good dick because often times our fantasies are not what we dream of or think. Being hurt by a man in a relationship can be an intensely traumatizing experience. 

I have fallen in love with intensely charming dashing, sexy men who wooed me but it's not worth it in the end because it ends in disaster. 

It does not mean that every sexy man is like that 

But what it means is to understand the heart of the man, his values and a good hearted man even though he is not initially attractive will eventually become important as a partner because he will offer something more valuable like faithfulness and companionship and the woman who has been hurt by players (like me) begins to appreciate such men better than women who haven't experienced such heartbreaks (eg my mom). 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Preety_India

[flowboy]

@Preety_India  I understand, and congratulations on that introspection about living out your mom's dream. Isn't it fascinating how as children we make vows based on impressions from elders, and those determine our lives until we become conscious of the pattern.

I understand now that by romantic you mean the kind of guy that will overload a girl with fake compliments and attention from the get-go. That's a telltale sign of a narcissist, and actually it is known in the pickup community that that kind of game only works on vulnerable women with very low self-esteem, or otherwise have emotional problems, so it is not recommended. Women (and men) with reasonable to high self esteem will be very skeptical and distrusting with such unearned over the top flattery. They will wonder what you are selling.

That's not to say that your self esteem is so low that it attracted these people. You apparently were also conditioned to like this sort of behaviour by your mother. Could have been a combination. You know better than I, I'm just hypothesising because I find it interesting.

What saddens me though, is that you make the leap from "not overloading with flattery like a typical narcissist" to "not initially attractive". That sounds like an unnecessary sacrifice. I'm initially attractive. But maybe not to people who really like over-the-top flattery.

My point I guess, is that you and many others are prone to liking this behavior, but many other women actually find it suspicious and not at all attractive. And rightfully so. They are more attracted to confidence, humor and authenticity. It seems like a more beneficial emotional configuration.

Do you think this can be learnt?

I hope so.

I want to live in a world where people can be initially attracted to their right partner

Edited November 19, 2020 by flowboy

[Preety_India]

@flowboy

The post is essentially an antithesis of what my mom wanted. Her own shadows in her life emerging through my character. She trained me to believe that such men were infinitely attractive. On the other hand, the character of my dad (as a hero in the drama of my mom's life) became my shadow as well. What happened is that through me these shadows were playing against each other fighting to win a place in my mind, eventually my dad won and my mom lost, because my dad represented great character and my mom represented great charm (my mom being an exceptionally beautiful woman and my dad being an exceptionally great big hearted God like man) these shadows competed within my mind and I always left confused by the battle between character and charm, who wins who loses, the thing is charm is temporary no matter how attractive, and character is permanent, couldn't have been a better example than me playing out these shadows from my parents directly into my romantic life and then realizing the truth coming to fruition through my intensely charismatic relationships entertaining all of my shadow aspects finally making me realize that fire is great to look at in awe but still waters run deeper. 

It's something that I'll never be able to communicate to my mom, she lived her entire life in this false fantasy that a man will come and sweep her off her feet, her fantasies being relived in me and my relationships, she always pushed me to fall in love with a lothario not realizing that true and everlasting love is more about the heart than the dick. Sexual attraction is an important part of a relationship but so is the character of a man 

The thing is that I fulfilled her fantasy and reached that point of exploration and realized that it was all glitter no gold, all hype no substance. Yes it feels great to be around such a charismatic man but when he begins to play with your emotions, it's not a good experience.. 

So I have a renewed appreciation for men who are not exactly attractive but they have a great heart and have great values and will always stand by the woman, aka men like my dad. 

So the story of this whole self fulfilling prophecy ends with me wanting to tell my mom that my dad was the best man and if she doesn't appreciate it its because she is ignorant and naive. 

So basically in this whole drama I'm the evolved form of my mother who brings a conclusion to her life long misery.

 

[flowboy]

@Preety_India Fascinating. Thank you for elaborating on your story for me. It's beautiful and I learnt a lot.

[Applegarden]

You know, I have always wondered about one thing. We all look for extraordinary people around us in one way or another, wether it is on emotional intelligence spectrum or beauty or accomplishment, wealth that the person has e.c.t., but if we look at ourselves then we don't have such attributes, because the attention is going outside.

If you want to meet really nice people e.c.t., then you should be embodiment of that, and me of course too. And still if you reflect and reflect... what is going to happen is that you are probably going to be by yourself, because you can't find many or no people who resonate with you at all, and you probably won't be needy anyway after such self-reflection, that is just my experience anyway.

The thing from my life I remember, there were so few people that voluntarily wrote to me or wanted to meet me, I had to initiate almost all the conversations e.c.t. and I guess that is fine, the tought of loneliness doesn't enter my head easily. And after a while, when I started more actively pursuing the meaning of life, I decided I should keep it this way and set a barrier where nobody that I don't want to can get to my personal life, so a bunch of people slipped out of my life and anyway I saw, they will drag me down and with most of them relationships seem like a chore, because I don't even want to talk about myself and what I like or not and I know my values and beliefs don't match theirs at all.

And just after that I stated pursuing potential conscious relationships where I attended events and got some contacts and I get the benefit of giving and recieving in relationship and I write and meet with these people by my initiative somewhat regularly, and some of them are starting to come back at me.

I am acctually quite suprised that Leo wants a girlfriend, of course, completely respect that e.c.t., but I think he could have done more extreme and extraordinary stuff in solitude... 

As far as I have underestood you have a significant other currently right? If so, then I don't think there is anything to say and goodspeed.  

 

[Preety_India]

@Applegarden  I'm gradually reaching a point where I have totally exhausted relationships after having some extraordinary experiences in relationships, I can finally be done with that phase of my life. 

I feel like I fulfilled my curiosity regarding relationships. It's like curiosity for chocolate that you never ate but once you eat it, it's no longer a big deal, how it's hyped out to be. 

Although some of these relationships were negative experiences, these negative experiences were rich experiences that imparted value and richness to my life because they taught me so much, I wouldn't trade them for anything, they made me who I am today, I might have sat in the corner and cried many times and it might sound like these experiences were regretful, I don't actually regret them because our best learning lessons come from our worst experiences and so I wear my wounds as medals and I have grown at such young age through dramatic experiences in my life but they will surely pave the way to my spiritual evolution, I have an exploratory character and I took the bait and I took risks but it was all well worth it because I learnt so much through my experience. 

My curiosity regarding relationships is finally exhausted out and put to rest. I fulfilled the relationship part of my life 

My next curiousity is spirituality and I want to grow in that direction now. 

I'm exceptionally lucky in that everything is happening exactly how I would have wanted. I would have never been happy with a mundane life. That's not good for my spiritual progress 

I don't believe that spirituality is just sitting and meditating. I believe in exploring every aspect of life and existence and growing in every possible way. This I see as spirituality, the journey to truth and understanding and of course love 

One thing that helped me in my journey was my non judgemental attitude to life that my father taught me as a child. I see people who never grow in life because they are set in their ways in how they look at life, they want a formula life, they don't want to take risks and they don't want to learn new things. But I have this lifelong insatiable appetite for learning and taking risks with no worries about survival or society acceptance, I don't care how people look at me or societal standards and this carefree attitude is what led me to have a much faster growth in life. 

I'm also  lucky that my current partner is also spiritually inclined like me. 

Maybe once the pandemic is over, I can look into psychedelics to speed up my spiritual growth. 

I have huge ambitions in life and I very much look forward to creating a great spiritual life experience for myself. 

Thanks 

 

[UDT]

On 18/11/2020 at 0:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

What you're asking for is a highly developed, conscious, selfless man. Which is gonna be as rare as a highly developed, conscious, selfless woman. Basically, you want to be date God

See... on the one hand you want a man who not manipulative, yet on the other hand you want a man who's really good at survival and a provider. These two things are inversely related. A "strong" man is often the most manipulative and deceptive. That's how he gets his strength in a low-consciousness society. And a weak man is probably not gonna make you wet. So it's a delicate balancing act.

And here's the ultimate kicker: if you ever sleep with a man who's that God-like, and if you ever break up with him, it will be the most painful, heartbreaking event of your life. Because you know you'll probably never meet someone that good again. So be careful what you wish for. Just because a man is good or Godly does not guarantee he will not break up with you at some point for any number of legit reasons which have nothing to do with him cheating or being an asshole.

There is a deeper problem you're hitting up against here, which is this: every great thing comes to an end, and the greater the thing is, the sadder its end will be. You can't escape this. This is the existential suffering that the Buddha taught. Relationships are bound to be painful. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship without any pain. Relationships are like a rollercoaster, so enjoy the thrill while it lasts.

@Leo Gura Wow that was some deep wisdom from a veteran of the love wars.. appreciate it. Thanks!

[Preety_India]

@Tim Ho thank you