Leo's toxic rhetoric and an inner conflict

[Preety_India]

@K Ghoul

 

[nistake]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, consider this:

Completely valid point. I totally agree with not keeping up a saintly figure appearance. People putting you up on a pedestal is rampant (especially on this forum) and it's not really healthy. But, there's a fine line between being authentic or maybe even blunt and being straight up obnoxious and arrogant. Though, you mentioned that you were working on this, so it's all good.

[Martin123]

@Nahm

Sorry I didn’t even notice your comment in the flood of comments here.

Apologise? Asking someone to apologise for speaking up is yet another victim blaming mechanism, and that just ain’t gonna happen.

I think I clearly expressed that picking apart a victims fearful reaction is only a shifting away of responsibility from the persecutor. Panic attacks aren’t controllable. 

 

Please consider that speaking to others in a tone where you talk  as if you were an authoritarian parent of theirs is extremely rude and uncalled for in all situations. 
 

‘Have you considered apologising you rude young boy ?’... maybe apologise for treating others the way you do, id love to see that. 
 

One other thing, the only reason the two of us are speaking on the forum is because you’re a mod and I can’t block you. Just to be super clear. 

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 

 

Cool it guys.. COOL IT 

Whats this big fuss. Leo already admitted that sometimes he does that. Give him a break. 

Also try to focus on so many wonderful qualities of Leo.

Give that guy your feminine energy.. He is starving in his masculine energy. 

Send Leo some of your love. 

 

 

 

+1 but also give luvvv to all others <3 

I send love to the guitarist, even though I send him to cognitive resonance land every time we speak. I do it out of love ? 

[Leo Gura]

There is no need to denounce those who criticize me. Let whoever wants air his/her grievances without being blamed or rebuked.

[Preety_India]

 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no need to denounce those who criticize me. Let whoever wants air his/her grievances without being blamed or rebuked.

Ahh, now you're being a Saint!! 

 

[wakeup]

8 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Sure. "I'm not aware of what you are describing. Could you elaborate?".

The key to meta views is holding points loosely and being aware of the limited nature of each point. Did you read the part about the blind men and the elephant?

You seem to be assuming I cannot see your point. As you observed, my mind works at a meta level and I can see various points, including the one you offer. 

Yea, your point is true from within that point. 

This has value in that if a teacher cannot connect and articulate understanding to students, the teacher is ineffective. Yet there are also factors and responsibilities  on the student end. If a student has mental defenses, is unwilling to take personal responsibility , and doesn’t put in the work - it it’s not fair to simply point at a teacher. 

To me, this is a different case. What I have expressed, is based on long observation, intuition, and consideration of different points (including the ones that you mentioned). 

Regarding the teaching part - there is a huge ingredient that you are missing. The ingredient comes from feeling ,sensing, and intuition, it has to do with energy. This may have to do with the fact that you spend a lot of time in your head. 

And I asked you for your honest opinion (pmed you) and as I can see, you are not willing to share it. 

 

 

[wakeup]

4 hours ago, Ivan Dimi said:

Sure, I get und fully understand what you're saying. Me personally, I am against blindly following and taking too seriously anybody (from Jesus to Hitler), but at the same time learning from everybody (again from Jesus to Hitler). 

In spiritually I usually just listen to my guts / deeper intuition, because I don't think consciousness is something that I can grasp intellectually, so I fully trust my guts. So to bring again the example Eckhart. I don't really care what he is eating, if he is having sex or not. And don't even always care what he is saying, because it is almost always the same, but is rather the energy field around this guy I resonate with, it is kind of meditation just starring at him and somehow feeling with my guts the higher consciousness around him. Of course there is always the possiblity that it is a trap and hi is just a media product, and 'my guts' are somehow misled,... I can never know until I know ?

And again I don't & can't know who between Leo, Alan or Eckhart is 'most enlighten', but I resonate by guts feeling mostly with Eckhart (even if let's say he may be the least developed teacher). May be is just my spirtual level of development right now, may be I will resonate more with Leo in a further more advanced level)

And if you allow me a constructive criticism, it is not about the porn Leo loves ? (who doesn't ?) it's rather that you talk sometime to the audience in a slightly arrogant manner, especially if you talk about spiritually. 

 

This is exactly what I was talking about. The things that Eckhart Tolle says, are actually congruent with his energy field. In fact, his biggest teaching comes from him just being, his presence. He is an example of somebody who embodies his teachings.

The gut doesn't lie. The mind does.

It is also absurd, that on this forum people consider him one of the least developed teachers. (and somehow Leo to be one of the most advanced)

I have a feeling that a lot of people on this forum spend too much time in their head and are disconnected from their bodies. That's what chasing for intellectual understanding + insights will do.

"Slightly arrogant manner" is also a very mild way to put it.

[Martin123]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no need to denounce those who criticize me. Let whoever wants air his/her grievances without being blamed or rebuked.

Also as an HSP and someone who’s gone through 5 years of an energetic healing and awakening.

 

I can feel the energy Leo emits through some of his posts, especially in this thread (perhaps because there is great genuineness within them).

 

Its lovely and certainly very charged, at the same time it’s very raw and unrefined, as If ‘yes the awakened energy is there, but it hasn’t truly settled into the body.’

 

that is why the insights may be very masculine oriented, but deny the feminine in a way that to those of us who are more comfortable with the feminine can feel abrasive and insensitive. 
 

The imbalance is that the masculine will always seek greater insights, because seeking is a masculine energy, and the feminine will then integrate and receive the consciousness that was discovered through seeking. Without enough emphasis on the feminine energy, the endless seeking won’t be balanced by healthy receiving and embodiment. Simply because the masculine only knows how to seek, but doesn’t have the ability to fully receive. Only the feminine can.

 

and there in lies the struggle. If I could summarize my feelings in one sentence, it would be that I haven’t felt well received by Leo. It surely isn’t my responsibility to convince you Leo about the importance of the feminine receptivity, and it also isn’t up to you to cater to my own feelings, for those are for me to reconcile with. yet it seems very healing for all of us to acknowledge this.

 

We would all benefit by becoming better receivers, because what if the world becomes globally better, environment improves, politics improve, and then we will sabotage it all because we haven’t developed our capacity to receive the new world fully ?

 

wouldn’t that be the tragedy of the century. 

[Gesundheit]

@wakeup ?? to everything you said.

[Martin123]

4 minutes ago, wakeup said:

I have a feeling that a lot of people on this forum spend too much time in their head and are disconnected from their bodies. That's what chasing for intellectual understanding + insights will do.

That ! Haha yes. Yes indeed, Indeedyes.

[Someone here]

I have a sense that those cocky statements that Leo say from time to time are not authentic.. It's not his authentic self.. You can tell from watching him he is pretty polite and nice person.. But come on he has to say some funny.. Cocky.. Perhaps arrogant.. Perhaps dirty stuff sometimes.  The controversial opinion are inevitable as well. Right or wrong is relative  keep that in mind.   Not gonna leave without saying.. Perhaps if you guys realize there is no Leo..?

[Gesundheit]

13 minutes ago, wakeup said:

This is exactly what I was talking about. The things that Eckhart Tolle says, are actually congruent with his energy field. In fact, his biggest teaching comes from him just being, his presence. He is an example of somebody who embodies his teachings.

The gut doesn't lie. The mind does.

It is also absurd, that on this forum people consider him one of the least developed teachers. (and somehow Leo to be one of the most advanced)

I'd have to disagree here. Eckhart is nowhere near Leo's intellectual understanding. That's like the most obvious fact. And what makes you think that Leo isn't actually just being himself? As if anyone can be anything other than themselves. Just because Leo has a different style and energy does not make him less, or Eckhart more. Just different. And different people will resonate with different teachers depending on styles energetics.

And btw, the gut lies but it cannot distinguish its lies from the truth. The mind can, but mostly it does not. So, the feeling that gut feelings are true is just a fecade. It's not different from being deluded, except that it claims not to be deluded, on a more subtle level.

20 minutes ago, wakeup said:

"Slightly arrogant manner" is also a very mild way to put it.

If you want to be 100% objective, arrogance is a projection from the recipient that has nothing to do with the speaker. Nobody is obliged to listen to Leo. If you don't like his tone and style, that's okay, find another teacher, or wait until he changes if ever, or change your preferences. Now if Leo was exclusive and the one only teacher, this concern would be valid. But since both the internet and real life are overbloated with teachers, there's a huge freedom for everyone to choose whoever they like. In fact, I would argue that getting triggered by a teacher is a good learning opportunity that carries lessons on multiple layers.

Otherwise, great discussion overall and I agree with almost everything you said.

[Leo Gura]

When I am 60 years old, you can compare my energy to Tolle's.

My journey has only just begun and you ain't seen nothing yet. Big awakening and transformations lie ahead once I heal my health issues.

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Eckhart is nowhere near Leo's intellectual understanding. That's like the most obvious fact.

You’re right. But you’re also under the impression that intellectual understanding is relevant. Overemphasis On understanding is a coping strategy to deal with uncertainty. Simply because it is scary not to know.

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

If you want to be 100% objective, arrogance is a projection from the recipient that has nothing to do with the speaker.

This is just untrue. Arrogant people are arrogant. Those who recognise their arrogance posses the ability to discern the qualities of consciousness vs. Avoidance.

Arrogance is present in fear of intimacy. It is ‘love avoidance.’

So to say arrogance is in the eyes of the perceiver is to massively downplay what it actually is. 

 

 

[Preety_India]

 

Leo is cocky just to appear edgy that's all. 

It's his way of spinning things. 

He doesn't want to feel left out. He wants to seek attention and stir the pot. 

He likes to have some fun and this is his idea of fun. He is an introvert. 

Sometimes an introvert can appear arrogant even when they actually are not. 

They put on that arrogant mask as a way of self defiance. It's a tease. A loving tease. 

It comes across as an act of offense but deep down he is simply trying to break ice. It's like when people play pranks on strangers.. 

Leo likes to play a little with people, this is his way. He doesn't want to be boring or too straight forward because then he will appear cold 

But he wants to keep it warm and not cold. So he tries to spice it up a bit by provocation. It's like a teenager boy trying to be a bit provoking to a girl just to annoy her but later be her friend

Sometimes his teasing gets misconstrued as arrogance. 

Remember he always uses the emoji .... That's his tease. 

He doesn't wish 

He is just a humble YouTuber who loves all and wishes absolutely the best for everyone. He is also authentic, just a bit of an introvert that can cause or create a ton of misunderstanding. 

He has strong opinions, but then who doesn't? 

He is not trying to be fake like so many other Youtubers. 

Leo is a Taurus. I had a Taurus boyfriend ex. I understand how Tauruses are. They can be a bit odd. They will do the opposite of what is expected

So if you expect a Taurus to give you a bouquet of flowers, he might hand you a box of nails and then giggle at you. The Taurus somehow assumes that he was just being funny while others feel annoyed. 

Also Tauruses are extremely frugal and pragmatic. They are too rational and practical about everything 

A lot of people don't like to hear harsh practical things. It can come off as condescending. But the Taurus is only trying to be as truthful to the person as possible. 

Taurus does not believe in flowery language. They see it as deception. 

So people get annoyed by their non-floweriness.

A Taurus never tries to please people because he sees it as fake and unnecessary, he would rather be upfront even if it might appear a little bitter and harsh 

The Taurus is okay with the harsh tone because he wants to remind his friends that this is reality 

A lot of Leo's behavior is easily explained by his Taurus nature. 

Beneath all that, Leo is an authentic helpful genuine person just trying to help. 

Tauruses are generally misunderstood a lot. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Preety_India

[Martin123]

@Preety_India I’m a Taurus, I used to be an extreme people pleaser. 

[Preety_India]

@Martin123  Taurus can go to great lengths in people pleasing. But they can also do the opposite 

. Remember they are a bit weird. Yet entertaining 

 

[Martin123]

Just now, Preety_India said:

Taurus can go to great lengths in people pleasing. But they can also do the opposite 

 

So basically they either people please... or they don’t.

 

just like everyone else on planet Earth.

 

okay  

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Martin123 said:

You’re right. But you’re also under the impression that intellectual understanding is relevant. Overemphasis On understanding is a coping strategy to deal with uncertainty. Simply because it is scary not to know.

I never said anything about relevance. Now I'll say that relevance is context-dependent because value is relative. Imo, you can and should discuss Leo's emphasis on understanding with him, that would be a very interesting and valuable discussion. I don't buy into that paradigm in the first place so I'll excuse myself from further representation.

5 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

This is just untrue. Arrogant people are arrogant. Those who recognise their arrogance posses the ability to discern the qualities of consciousness vs. Avoidance.

Arrogance is present in fear of intimacy. It is ‘love avoidance.’

So to say arrogance is in the eyes of the perceiver is to massively downplay what it actually is.

Then how do you reconcile the fact that what you perceive as Leo's arrogance, I perceive as intimidating and challenging to grow? Is my perception invalid? I've never once perceived his arrogance in the way you describe, even though I pointed it out at times just to make him aware.

But anyway, if he's truly arrogant regardless of our povs, then that in and of itself is its own punishment, and unfortunately there's no way out of it except through it. You can't just tell someone to stop being arrogant and they will stop. That simply ain't gonna happen because they think they're doing the right thing. I find pointing out that problem to be enough, and since he admitted it, there's no need to be neurotic or push any further. He already acknowledged his arrogance and he's working on it. For me, that's more than enough.