Anyone experienced with reincarnation literature can help me out

[electroBeam]

I very very slowly developed this insight about reincarnation over the past couple of weeks. I haven't read any spiritual literature in the last 2 years, and I don't watch any videos. Mainly because I honestly don't feel they add any value to me, and I progress on the spiritual journey way better when I just contemplate instead of reading. But as I had this insight (shown below) it triggered a few thoughts I remembered about buddhist philosophy. I can't remember where I got them from (books or seminars or videos) but I do remember reading about it. 

As I don't read much books, searching for any teachers pointing to the insight below is really hard to do, was wondering if anyone who is much more familiar with non duality philosophy could read my insight below, and then point me to some buddhist or yogic or whatever resources that talks about this:

Quote

Insight from past week

I became conscious of past lives. I developed a deeper knowing of how reincarnation works. When you reincarnate, everything that you identify with, project, dream up, remember, think, believe, etc. Gets thrown away. BUT there are things that persist throughout different lives. Conscious effort towards consciousness work (like contemplation and meditation) actually persists throughout past lives. It gets carried over to your new life. So if you're at a Level B in consciousness work in this life, that same level of consciousness will get passed to your new life and you'll more easily handle consciousness work in that next life. That's because 'waking up' or different states of consciousness are not delusion. They are a 'flavour' of emptiness. And that flavour, while may be covered by projections and delusion, doesn't go away. That flavour doesn't just include how 'awake' you are, it also includes, at a very deep level, what your personality is, because at a very deep level, your personality is basically the way you wake up to god. And the way you wake up to god also carries over. So whether your conscious effort was kriya related OR jnana related, also gets carried over. Your inclination for a particular spiritual path is related to your past life. 

And I realised this by becoming aware of how identification works on a deeper level. I became aware that 'knowing', while can be covered up by thought, persists constantly at the heart of your consciousness. And that 'knowing' grows larger and larger as you do consciousness work. And that knowing is unaffected by projection, thoughts and identification. So that level of knowing is passed on through reincarnation. 

And the point of your next life, is to carry on with the progress of that 'knowing' and make it deeper. 

So all the conscious effort you're doing in this life, goes towards a work in progress for your next life. 

And so that's the mindset I have right now of my LP and awakening work. I'm not believing in this perspective, I sort of just got it through an insight. That's just how it feels to me right now. And I have no fear of death because of it. I'm actually excited to reincarnate into a whole new world, because I have this sense of optimism that all the 'knowing' that was done in this life will be used to build up on in the next life, so that I can have an even better life in the next life.

Also of course, I'm aware that some will think I'm deluded, which is totally fine, I accept that. I'm not trying to start a non duality war. But I'm simply drawn to the idea of reading what other philosophies or sages have to say about the above out of pure curiosity. It make me light up when I remembered some buddhist thing about reincarnation, remember reading about how bullshit it sounded back then, then years later having a very similar insight derived purely separately from any buddhist teachings or philosophies or ideas. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by electroBeam

[PopoyeSailor]

Your insight seems to be spot on with mainstream understanding of reincarnation. There is really nothing that I can add to it. If it helps you can read these two posts:

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[PopoyeSailor]

Research Reports on Reincarnation:

 

[Artsu]

There are some articles on truthforallpeople.com that say that reincarnation isn't real. These articles are the channelled messages of spirits, through a medium.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Maybe check out Sadhguru's  book on death
Pg. 275, begins the discussion on reincarnation. I think there's also a version read aloud by someone on YT.



 

[Arcangelo]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:42 AM, electroBeam said:

Insight from past week

I became conscious of past lives. I developed a deeper knowing of how reincarnation works. When you reincarnate, everything that you identify with, project, dream up, remember, think, believe, etc. Gets thrown away. BUT there are things that persist throughout different lives. Conscious effort towards consciousness work (like contemplation and meditation) actually persists throughout past lives. It gets carried over to your new life. So if you're at a Level B in consciousness work in this life, that same level of consciousness will get passed to your new life and you'll more easily handle consciousness work in that next life. That's because 'waking up' or different states of consciousness are not delusion. They are a 'flavour' of emptiness. And that flavour, while may be covered by projections and delusion, doesn't go away. That flavour doesn't just include how 'awake' you are, it also includes, at a very deep level, what your personality is, because at a very deep level, your personality is basically the way you wake up to god. And the way you wake up to god also carries over. So whether your conscious effort was kriya related OR jnana related, also gets carried over. Your inclination for a particular spiritual path is related to your past life. 

And I realised this by becoming aware of how identification works on a deeper level. I became aware that 'knowing', while can be covered up by thought, persists constantly at the heart of your consciousness. And that 'knowing' grows larger and larger as you do consciousness work. And that knowing is unaffected by projection, thoughts and identification. So that level of knowing is passed on through reincarnation. 

And the point of your next life, is to carry on with the progress of that 'knowing' and make it deeper. 

So all the conscious effort you're doing in this life, goes towards a work in progress for your next life. 

And so that's the mindset I have right now of my LP and awakening work. I'm not believing in this perspective, I sort of just got it through an insight. That's just how it feels to me right now. And I have no fear of death because of it. I'm actually excited to reincarnate into a whole new world, because I have this sense of optimism that all the 'knowing' that was done in this life will be used to build up on in the next life, so that I can have an even better life in the next life.

Spot on sir. Totally nailed it.

[Adam M]

Reincarnation is a tricky one because we try and understand it using conventional notions of time.

What's the difference between a past life and a future life? That being said, what is a current life?

 Your insight resonates with me... I believe that we choose to incarnate into whatever experience that we want to have...just for the sake of having it...because I love myself (as consciousness itself) so much that I want to experience myself from all different angles and flavors.

I guess you could say that it's about enjoying the full juice of the journey, and trusting that the destination, is always moving towards more consciousness/love.

Peace brother. Thanks for sharing ❤

Edited August 24, 2020 by Adam M

[PopoyeSailor]

On 8/23/2020 at 7:49 PM, Artsu said:

There are some articles on truthforallpeople.com that say that reincarnation isn't real. These articles are the channelled messages of spirits, through a medium.

Seems like a christian website, probably that's why they cannot accept reincarnation. So, they have to interpret it in ways that makes sense for them.

How do you explain the reincarnation cases where birth marks and birth defects correspond to the injury in the previous life.

[gswva]

@PopoyeSailor Thanks for the detailed answers. There are many conflicting views that seem to be shared around. I guess truth is non-dual and will get lost when projected over dual understandings. We can still try to grasp it within the convergence of concepts that encapsulate it, since the idea that enlightenment is a permanent death to individualization is such a powerful claim, and a conveniently scary one. Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. 

I tried to make a schema showing some different models I've read. It's a bit nonsensical and misinterpreting the original ideas but it's still fun

(I'm not enlightened but it's usually reported that the ego is just a partial projection of infinite imagination. What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again. If that makes sense...)

The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not.

Edited August 29, 2020 by gswva

[allislove]

Very recently Rupert uploaded a video about reincarnation:

 

[Artsu]

On 26/08/2020 at 1:42 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

Seems like a christian website, probably that's why they cannot accept reincarnation. So, they have to interpret it in ways that makes sense for them.

How do you explain the reincarnation cases where birth marks and birth defects correspond to the injury in the previous life.

It's Christian in the sense of being based around the people and events of the new testament (many of the letters are transmissions from Jesus), but it is not biblical. The letters could contain anything, whatever the spirit wants to transmit through the medium.

There's no reason to say they are rejecting reincarnation out of dogma, because they reject the idea that Jesus is God, or that the bible is infallible, or the vicarious atonement.

Trust that the letters are actual transmissions from spirits in the spirit world. That doesnt mean its always right. The knowledge of the spirit talking, and the ability of the medium to receive the messages are limiting factors.

As for your example, i don't know how to explain that WITH reincarnation (it's the soul that reincarnates, not the body, so why would there be a birthmark anyway? There is more to the picture.), so it is irrelevant at this point.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Artsu

[WaveInTheOcean]

https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Mind-Universe-Diamonds-Heaven/dp/B0848SBF1M/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1598732355&refinements=p_27%3AChristopher+M.+Bache&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Christopher+M.+Bache 

Bache talks a good deal about reincarnation in his great book.

[Arzack]

19 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Mind-Universe-Diamonds-Heaven/dp/B0848SBF1M/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1598732355&refinements=p_27%3AChristopher+M.+Bache&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Christopher+M.+Bache 

Bache talks a good deal about reincarnation in his great book.

What are his main points if you could summarize them? 

Anyway check my sign. for some channeled sources on reincarnation. They are not super consistent and "100% detailed" but compared to the sources I see mentioned on this thread so far it's like day and night... you find much more info in the sources linked in my sign. link.

[PopoyeSailor]

On 8/30/2020 at 0:13 AM, gswva said:

@PopoyeSailorThere are many conflicting views that seem to be shared around.

Dear gswva,

Once again: I'm not enlightened. My knowledge is only through the scriptures I read and videos that I watch online. It's very much possible my knowledge is flawed.

Without enlightenment we can only speculate. Even with enlightenment, it seems there are various levels of enlightenment with different knowledge and more depth to such knowledge. Having understood this, we can only speculate. So, lets speculate: 

From my understanding, all the descriptions that we give about the Brahman are just that: Descriptions and Thoughts. Even the word Brahman is just a label and as such is just a thought.  Neither can you say it exist, nor can you say it doesn't exist. It exists without existing. It is the pure absolute nothingness. So absolute in its emptiness that it becomes the very source of every unique thing. Yet, none of those things are different from it. They only exist in and as itself.  The way we think and believe seems to be the way Brahman seem to appear to us(Just like the AI in the movie Captain Marvel).

In Non-Dual Traditions: The same reality is experienced as nameless and formless but with all potential.

In Bhakthi Traditions: Those who worship krishna report visiting krishna and his abode Goloka(Krishna's abode); those who worship shiva talk about their experiences of shiva; similarly the Devi(goddess) has been seen(e,g: Ramakrishna paramahamsa  frequently talked with "kali devi"). Similarly, visiting heaven and christ in christianity; Egyptian gods in ancient egypt etc.. In which ever way we create our karma(Cause & Effect - Tendencies, Beliefs, Conditioning, Memories, Behaviours, etc). such seems to be our experience.  Each of these worshipers actually experience reality as if their god is the one who created the entire reality and He/She/They/It is the one who is presiding over everything. Such gods actually show to their devotees through certain experiences how they are the alpha and omega of everything(Best e.g: Virat Rupa(Universal Form) of Krishna shown to Arjuna in the battlefield).

During such experiences the devotees actually experience their deity to be anything and everything, with all the descriptions and experiences of non-dual liberation as well as dual liberations being present within their deity itself. Although the deity seen with a form, still at the same time being infinite; with everything present within themselves; Just like fractals although seem to have a limited form; after having zoomed in, will reveal infinite patterns with infinite depth.

 

I'll give you just one example of how they experience their realities based on their belief:

"In Gaudiya Vaishnava school of bhakthi(Devotional) tradition(ISKCON). Their deity is Krishna. They make a distinction between Material reality and Spiritual reality. Spiritual reality having many varieties of infinite realms all being completely perfect and eternal. Each realm has a certain form of Krishna presiding over that realm. There is no suffering in any of those realms whatsoever. All of them are filled only with blissful experiences. When they want to experience material reality they descend and have them and again return back to their own abodes. Anybody who develops devotion and worships Krishna believing the stories about him with full unconditional loving intensity; after getting liberation in bhakthi(Dual type liberation) and after giving up their physical body, they go to such places and stay there eternally(I doubt it being eternal - But, who knows)

Then, Krishna also creates these Material reality where infinite universes are generated and dissolved again and again. Within each of which: material heavens, hells and earthly experiences are experienced according to the karma of the living entities with incarnation and reincarnation cycles going on again and again. until liberation happens. But, they say that all these material heavens and hells and earthly realms are all temporary and  will get destroyed during universal dissolution. And all of them are born in a new universe and are placed in situations suitable for their karma. Also, enjoyment and suffering in earth, heaven or hellish realms are experienced only as long as the karma for such enjoyment or suffering lasts. As such, are only temporary.  Karma keeps generating  and doesn't run out as long as actions are done with attachment for material fruits.

In this tradition, there were and still are very exalted enlightened beings who have experienced these realms/realities directly and written about them. These realities are not experienced as hallucinatory. The realities when being experienced are more profound and vivid than even our own earthly reality. In one such story, a sage during his meditation on his lord was experiencing such a realm and got his finger burnt in that realm. When he opened his eyes in our realm, his finger actually was burnt even in our realm(remember that scene in Matrix?)." 

 

The experiences mentioned above are only experienced as such by those who follow Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition(ISKCON) which is just one sub-tradition within the vaishnava tradition within Hinduism. Like this, there are literally more than thousand of other traditions within Hinduism itself.  There are 33 million gods in Hinduism it is said. Likewise, there are many different religions in other parts of the world each with their own belief and customs and traditions. Just like the e.g given above, all of them experience their LIFE based on how they create their own karma(Cause & Effect, tendencies, beliefs, conditioning, memories, behaviors, etc).. They experience their gods, heavens , hells and other such things, the way they imagined and believed.

All of this is just like water in the mirage. As such you can say, it doesn't exist. But then, as some form of an imagination itself, all of it is real. Just like dreams when experienced are reacted-to-emotionally by the dreamer as being real as long as they are being experienced.

 

Please read the sample screenshots of Yoga Vasishta from these posts first:

Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind. Just as Imagination is seen within the mind of the one imagining it. There is no possibility of projecting any reality outside of a mind. Our reality is also one such reality projecting within some mind. That being the case, Every reality is only an imaginary one. Even the mind that projects it is also just a mirage. All of this duality with all its universes/realities within such minds is like a water seen in the mirage(Think of such minds as mirages and water seen in the mirages as the worlds seen in such minds). Both mirage and water seen in it are unreal. They exist without existing.

 

 

 

Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. 

Brahman and intention are incompatible with one another. It is not a personal entity. It is completely impersonal and formless.  It is beyond intent and intellectualizing. There is nothing that can be said about it. Upon reaching it, all activity stops. No word or thought or imagination can touch it. It exists without existing. You are one with that Brahman they say.. A mere simple movement ( (metaphorical) which is natural and is a characteristic of Brahman; like movement of air is natural for the wind) in Brahman projects out infinite upon infinite of atomic Jiva(s)(Living entities with mind) into existence.  The conscious intelligent design only happens(Not consciously happen in all of them) after the Jiva(s) have come into being within Brahman. Within the minds of those Jiva(s): world, rules and regulations, intelligence, logic all these things appear. These are NOT prior to the minds.

For first appeared Primary Jiva(s), as well as secondary Jiva(s) - created within those Primary Jiva(s)'s minds; there is no karma initially. But, after acting as and within the world for some time; memories, tendencies, tastes, behavioral patterns, likes and dislikes, all of these are slowly acquired and they act as a repetitive compulsive cycles after a while, these patterns are what are called as vasanas and samskaras. These are collectively called as karma of that individual. As all the entities have such patterns, you can call it as collective karma of each of such groups. Just as when water flows upon land; creates a river bed by flowing continuously; and not able to change its path but to flow within the same riverbed after a while. Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river. Similarly, without karma, the individual will dissolve and cease to exist. Such dissolution is called liberation. 

 

Further Speculation:

"Not all those Jiva(s) projecting such worlds within them are very intelligent. So these primitive, first order Jivas only project some dumb random, abstract, useless, not so sophisticated; not so very conscious reality within themselves. Initially they don't possess any knowledge whatsoever. After their death. After having gone through several cycles of interaction with other jivas through reincarnation in other jiva(s)'s universes as one of the living entities in those universes and having evolved into higher conscious states(through such interaction by natural evolution which happens randomly as well as driven by karma) as human beings or other such entities, they get more knowledge. These Jivas after their death in other Jiva's mental world/universe/realm might project very sophisticated universes within their own mind(Even during the lowly evolved states they may project some unsophisticated universes within themselves in some of the after-life cycles). Such projection may not happen within each after-life cycle; only when a compatible universe is not found for the karma that this jiva currently possesses that this Jiva may create such a projection. Even then it may simply wait in limbo for a compatible universe.

Again, these projections either sophisticated or unsophisticated; may not be conscious ones. Just like our dreams are not experienced with lucidity with full consciousness of knowing them to be dreams. Similarly these projections may also happen unconsciously within themselves. Within these projected universes, there will be numerous Jiva(s) either reincarnated from other realities who have qualities which are compatible with this universe, or newly created ones without having had any karma before. These newly created jivas, can be directly human beings, deities, or any other such evolved beings which the jiva projecting the universe has previous knowledge of. These other jivas each further creating a universe within themselves in their after-life periods, with more jivas within them...with the cycle going ad-infinitum".

 

As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma. We do have strong evidence for that. As I already presented.

You need to understand first that, even the universal mind which projects the world as well as the entities incarnate and reincarnate within it, both/all of them are bound by their karma. Although, if more conscious the Jiva becomes, more ability it has - to act with freedom/freewill with less influence from karma. Some Yogis/saints/sages may take the position of such universal mind and project some highly sophisticated realities/universes/realms. Such Universal minds(Jivas(s)) may be with almost absolute freedom(E.g: Krishna in Goloka - Such Jiva(s) are not called as Jiva(s) They are called Bhagawan-Supreme Gods and goddesses for those who worship them). 

The Abodes/Realities/Universes/Worlds/Heavens what ever you want to call it; created by such Bhagawan/God like entities who have attained very highly unimaginable levels of consciousness/awareness are the worlds where suffering and reincarnation doesn't exist. Whether these worlds exist eternally or not I don't know. It may be a possibility, but I'm not sure. There may be infinite such worlds with varying degrees of sophistication.

Depending upon the consciousness prevailing in any reality, reincarnation may or may not be a fact in that reality. May be even in our own realities, not every one reincarnate. I don't know how it works. What I do know is: Karma is what drives reincarnation or any other experience as an individuated entity.

 

Having understood all of this clearly. Keeping the example of Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition in mind. If we think about each of the models you have presented, Even though you have presented them as if each of your models encompass all of absolute existence. Still it is possible to reduce them into different possible realities and it is easily possible that each of those models of reality may be truly be experienced in some of those universes/realities in some of those minds imagining/creating them. Even if such realities doesn't exist anywhere now, they can still be created by imagining them in a certain state of mind, either through Meditation(like mentioned in Yoga Vasishta) or even after Physical Death by keeping on intensely imagining them again and again in your living time now. So, scriptures say that In what ever state of mind you leave your body, during death, that state you'll attain without fail. This is just like how we dream at night about those things which we intensely contemplated in our waking state. 

 

Also, you'll only experience those realities and experiences, about which you have knowledge of or atleast related to your mental and karmic structure as a natural progression of your karma. Absolutely random experiences may be a very rare phenomenon.

 

 

 

What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again

Not necessary for all of creations to merge before other cycle of creations emerge. Infinite creations are keeping on emerging and dissolving  infinitely in infinite minds simultaneously. This cycle never stops. Such is the nature of Brahman - Just like breathing is the nature of a human being.

Having said that, this is only from the view given in the book:Yoga Vasishta. But, this also depends on your beliefs and world view. Remember: that you only experience what your mental structure believes and allows.

 

The video posted above of Rupert Spira has somewhat a good explanation. For this very reason some people may remember some other people's experiences & memories as their own(As one can read somewhat similar experiences in Yoga Vasishta). But, he seems to assume all the individuated entities as loosely bound with loose covering. But, It is only true for certain individuals in certain states of karma and for certain periods and types of disembodiment. After death, it seems; generally the individuated entities are tightly bound with remaining 4 layers(more like aspects than layers) of coverings mostly intact which I have mentioned in my previous posts. Because of this, these entities acquiring the karmas and memories of other's may be rare.

 

The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not.

 

May be we need to experience Non-Dual enlightenment to understand this. "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" has said that merging into brahman is like a salt doll walking into the ocean. After merging with the ocean there is no coming back. Seems like all non dual scriptures say the same thing. I haven't studied all of them though. May be those who suffer too much choose to dissolve when such an opportunity presents itself. Whereas, those who improve more and more through their effort gain new heights of awareness and consciousness creating their own realities and living in it with full bliss eternally(? - I'm not sure).

Sadhguru says in his book that there is no need to keep extending the individuation as every kind of universe has same fundamental structures. But, I don't agree with it. If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation. He himself admitted that he doesn't have much scriptural knowledge. Maybe, too much confidence in one's own ability without proper theoretical knowledge may create such illusions. Also, as I mentioned already, you can only experience those experiences you believe and have knowledge about.

 

Interestingly in the Gaudiya vaishnava tradition, although some of them say that such merging is a permanent suicide. Others say that even attaining liberation through merging with brahman is useless because it is only temporary and after a while they again fall down from that position. May be in this situation is where Rupert Spira's explanation may make sense, because during merging with Brahman there are no coverings and all those layers are completely dismantled.  So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma, For those individuals where such combination is not immediately available, maybe only they are created freshly without any karma. Maybe because the newly created individuals in this manner are not entirely uniquely their own selves as they previously were, it is for this reason that it may have been said that: once merged, its finished.

It may also be possible that some or all of these merged entities when there is a compatible universe exists, each of these entire entities is brought back with the same configuration. And as such experience themselves as same persons they were before in one of their previous incarnations.

The above cases makes sense because it is said that by doing samyama any information can be retrieved that one wishes to retrieve. It would only be possible if all the information is stored permanently somewhere. It is also possible that only information is permanent and not the individuals themselves with all their karmic configurations.

 

Above all, it is also highly possible that each of these cases is possible in some versions of cultural realities whose cultures imagine realities in such different manners mentioned above. 

 

Absolutely anything seems to be possible(Both Possibility as well as Impossibility).

 

In order to get proper understanding of reality, you have to read both of these books completely: (Even then you may not understand everything, But will definitely improve your knowledge)

Please read this book(Yoga Vasishta) without skipping anything: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf

Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die
Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

Edited September 2, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[PopoyeSailor]

 

Dear Artsu,

 

On 8/30/2020 at 1:12 AM, Artsu said:

There's no reason to say they are rejecting reincarnation out of dogma, because they reject the idea that Jesus is God, or that the bible is infallible, or the vicarious atonement.

In that case it was my wrong assumption and I apologize for assuming that.

 

On 8/30/2020 at 1:12 AM, Artsu said:

As for your example, i don't know how to explain that WITH reincarnation (it's the soul that reincarnates, not the body, so why would there be a birthmark anyway? There is more to the picture.), so it is irrelevant at this point.

Soul is not simply a soul. It has 5 layers or aspects when it is individuated:

1 Annamaya kosha

2 Pranamaya kosha

3 Manomaya kosha

4 Vijñānamaya kosha

5 Anandamaya kosha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosha

When physical body(Annamaya Kosha - Made of food) dies, still there are other four layers which are still intact and carry the individual's memories, karma, tendencies, behaviors and all other subtle aspects of that individual. into the new body. So the physical appearance - in terms of its remembrance in conscious and subconscious memory(Manomaya Kosha), seems to continue from one life to another. So, even though not all physical aspects show up in the new body, some traumatic wounds and injuries which lead to the death in the previous life seem to appear as corresponding birthmarks in the new body.

Reincarnation research:

50 Years of research: 

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/our-research/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/fifty-years-of-research/

You can find links for academic publications on this page below:

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/publications/

Jame Leininger's Case Report from Official NIH government website:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27079216/

Full PDF of Paper above:https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/360/2017/04/REI42-Tucker-James-LeiningerPIIS1550830716000331.pdf

 

On 8/30/2020 at 1:12 AM, Artsu said:

It's Christian in the sense of being based around the people and events of the new testament (many of the letters are transmissions from Jesus), but it is not biblical. The letters could contain anything, whatever the spirit wants to transmit through the medium.

Trust that the letters are actual transmissions from spirits in the spirit world. That doesnt mean its always right. The knowledge of the spirit talking, and the ability of the medium to receive the messages are limiting factors.

Just as the belief, such will be the experience. If the same people believe in reincarnation and try to affirm their beliefs, then their experiences will also be such that they will be confirming them, Please refer to my post just above this one.

 

 

[gswva]

@PopoyeSailor This is an awesome summary. Thank you for sharing so many ideas.

Seeking truth seems to be an awkward inquiry. If all is love, then abstractly thinking about it is obviously a distasteful approach, but in other hand if this is a permanent fall, then a conscious choice is appreciated. It could be impossible to share how unrestricted awareness feels about itself, since the liberation of our own selfish biases leads to the lack of desire, including the will of sharing this information within ourselves, at least if we assume that consciousness can't be anything else but totally accepting. We can predict that if God were unsatisfied, that there are issues inherent to its own existence, it would reject itself or not become conscious in the first place, but this isn't guaranteed to be possible since this undermine one of the only truth we have right now, that "it" "is". We usually assume "being love" as the only source of happiness, but it could be confused with the very act of breaking through fears, which would be its own reward. Nothingness could lack such feelings. As in, being a completely blank indifferent creator and not feeling anything from it. We can't even know what's the most transcendent intention of kindness between selfishness and selflessness, since both "feel good" in their own way. Well, I'm not trying to shape random conspiracy theories against spirituality, but I just want to be exhaustive. Enlightened people can't prove anything to sleepy dreamers beside saying that this is obviously nonsense. That's said, it's likely that awakening is permanent for the same reason this fearless "state" is where happiness is maximized for the Self.

On 01/09/2020 at 0:16 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind.

Yes, in a sense we can say that there is no such thing as an universe being imagined right now. Our own desire for a dream within a set of consistent rules creates this projection. We usually like stability and the lack of logical contradictions since it reinforces the idea that our fated escape is leading somewhere, Brahman has no other choice than accepting it.

On 01/09/2020 at 0:16 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river.

Interesting analogy. Some understandings about the structure of life are useful if we want to know what's best between endless dreams or infinite nothingness. While it's hard to make an accurate sampling of all dreams, and even harder to measure their "awesomeness" since it would be estimated within the lens of our survival biases, it's possible than most of them end after some threshold of love/fear is reached, such as the experience can not be too good or too bad without melting back into Oneness. Yet it doesn't make sense because it would imply the existence of some mathematical distribution beyond the scope of logic, and that the knowledge gap of karmas racing against their own self-entanglement isn't uniform, which is impossible to say. Then it doesn't explain how it is possible for us to understand anything, or how lucky we have to be in order to even understand this. Avoiding waking up might as well be a completely foolish idea or a genius take, I'm not sure of anything.

Personally, I will probably be pursuing enlightenment since there is no telling how incredible it is to be in a dream where fear can be recognized as the tearing fault. More convoluted incarnations will only feel hopeless and useless as long as the maximum amount of kindness isn't squeezed out of them. Dreams are only beautiful thanks to the benediction of Love. But then it could be a funny (or horrible) idea to keep accumulating fear in order to make better fireworks.

On 01/09/2020 at 0:16 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation.

Some speculative reasons for the apparition of jivas:
- Part of the birth process of God, which is infinite, therefore this process is endless
- Process inherent to the creation of the highest love, required to reach other deeply buried jivas themselves
- Divisible bits of awareness trying to escape or falling out of sync, because Oneness is hell and all lies, or whatever unknown reason
- In the opposite way, overflow of love are looping back into dreams
- Or I'm just alone with extreme schizophrenia

On 01/09/2020 at 0:16 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma

I've always found the way consciousness store information really intriguing. Intuitively, I have initially thought that all form that is, is all that is aware. But some people report experiencing the void/emptiness in their trip and coming back from it to their previous human dream. I doubt the relationship between love/fear, form and awareness can be too complicated. One simple explanation is that since God is infinite, it doesn't need to store anything because it already stores everything, including the most nonsensical conscious states. But then it doesn't explain how everything was created at once, through a selective process.

On 01/09/2020 at 0:16 AM, PopoyeSailor said:

As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma.

I have overlooked the simplicity of God's design. You are right. Since the mechanism of incarnation itself is within a dream, all possible models we can make about it are theoretically possible. I made a another schema based on that without superfluous content.

Edited September 4, 2020 by gswva

[PopoyeSailor]

On 9/3/2020 at 8:32 PM, gswva said:

Dear gswva,

This is the Book Yoga Vasishta's Model of existence:

The Universes/Minds/Jivas/Dreams However you call it are just living entities like you and me who each dream one such universe within itself; just as we dream dreams at night. As such, You & Me are dream characters in one such universal dream within one such Nth order universe(Meaning our universe is just one such dream being dreamed by one such jiva).

Any universe is a dream within some jiva's mind. There are numerous number of dream characters within that universe. When those dream characters like you & me die in the dream. They may dream their own universe within their parent universe, or they may transfer & reincarnate in some other Nth order universe or same universe that is being dreamed by their parent Jiva. What happens after death is determined by one's own karma(Behavioral patterns & tendencies).

Like mentioned above, Even the Jiva projecting the universes within themselves can after their death(dissolution of that universe) can be reborn as other living entities in other universes dreamed by other Jivas. or simply dissolve into Non-Duality or create another universal projection within themselves.

Fractals explain reality in a very easy to understand manner:

 

Fractal Exploration Software:

https://fractalfoundation.org/resources/fractal-software/

 

Just like the above model, however way one believes existence to be, they experience it as such.

 

Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition's(ISKCON) Model of Existence:

(High Resolution Versions of below Images): https://soolaba.wordpress.com/vedic-tour-of-our-universe/

 

Other Models in other cultures:

 

Brahman doesn't have an objective shape or reality to it. However way it is imagined, IS the way it presents itself to the one imagining it. When all imaginations are removed from it, it is experienced as simple "void" or just "Awareness aware of being itself(Not in an Ego sense)". When awareness becomes conscious(Consciousness always means, Conscious of something), it becomes duality. When awareness is unconscious(Not aware/conscious of any particular thing or anything at all), it becomes Non-Dual.

 

Don't think too much about these things, you can gain knowledge by studying these. Also, helps in keeping you interested in spirituality. At the same time they can frustrate you. There is no objective reality as such. So don't bother finding it out. But, having theoretical knowledge is always helpful and a must if you don't want to become scared and fearful of certain states if you suddenly enter into them through some practices.

Edited September 6, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[James123]

just watch this 3 min video. You dont need any extra answer.