Solipsism is True!

[Mu_]

2 minutes ago, Red-White-Light said:

 

I mean if I believed the assumptions inherent in the position, yes I could see it may be convincing. 

However, the position takes a few things as proven givens to begin with. 

1. The first one is there is a external and an internal to begin with.  Sure if there is a division made and agreed on, you could maybe agree that said area is internal in relational to a external other area.  But even my explanation has some givens unquestioned and they will be stated next.

2.  Its assumed there are individuals making distinctions to begin with in this theory/position.  For example An unfolding of something, doesn't have to have a cause, reason or choice made in its start.  Example, if said happening/unfolding unfolds into more in more phenomenon eventually reaching a point of say a big bang in which creates a space/time happening that births scientific principles and rules, galaxies, planets and eventually you and I's which walk talk and speak and believe self inherentnace, but are still being orchestrated  from/as the original uncaused first happening....well then the theory of solipsism is mute.

If whats said above is true, then the idea that there are men who have dreams and ask questions of their own volition is mute and to hold onto such notions as though they are real is just holding on to a belief system, which is totally fine.

 

[VeganAwake]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We have been debating over duality being an illusion for months now.  It is an illusion, but it exists.  Just like nothingness exists.  Still love you bro.  Like i said you are where you are and that's how it should be.  I'm not trying to push anything on you.  I'm just stating what i have become directly conscious of.  What you are currently conscious of is what reality is to you.  And that's perfect.

I agree that's a great way to put it ❤

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@Someone here 

Well whats a POV?  And once you've defined it, prove that its objectively true, like actually prove it......  I'm curious how you prove it.

It's not about the definitions. It's intuitively clear what I mean by POV. Basically your entire experience of reality as you know it. These are just words but what is being pointed to by the words is not the words themselves. Just look around you.. That's what I mean by your POV.  Also objectively true?  Lol that's the whole point of this discussion.. According to solopsism there is no such thing as objective reality.. Only your subjective experience to the limit of what it reveals. 

 

What is this YOU?  And why do you assume there is a doing or a not doing of this supposed YOU, what about the unfolding of something?  Like when wind happens, branches and leaves rustle, the branch nor the leaves did anything but happen to move from wind.  Perhaps better said or in combination with previously said is, unfolding without a cause or a doing.  Or and this is a mindfucker, both doing and not doing, what I just said above, neither, and other stuf.....  none of which conflict with eachother even though to the normal mind they seem like opposites or can't exist simultaneously.

Well because we are talking from the relative perspective here.. We have to assume that there is a me and you and these are clearly defined things.. Otherwise how are we supposed to have any conversation? 

what I'm about to say may be triggering and offensive, but for the sake of knowledge and investigation, I'll shoot.  If you want out, just say so, and leave it be....

What is a psychological issue and What is being projected on "who"?  What's taking offense? 

Idk man. I prefer to not dig so much on that. Just let go as if nothing happened ?

 

Really?  How so, perhaps its good for you to define what you mean by solipsism and prove why this definition is irrefutable.

Solipsism is a philosophy that states only you the guy who you think you are who is reading this words and is having this awareness right now.. Is the only SURE awareness that exists in reality.  Notice it doesn't say that other aware POVs are sure to be nonexistent. It says it might be and might not be but it can't be Proved either way. Why??  Well  try prove to yourself that someone here (me) is a self - aware human being or not a robot or not a character in your dream.. Good luck with that. 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

6 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

No more or less so than "normal" states of consciousness.

I'm scrapping the whole idea that there are states of Consciousness at all along with the belief that some are higher or lower than others.

What's being pointed at is it's not a gaining of Consciousness, it's a dropping of Concepts that seems to cover up what's really going on

Edited July 2, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I'm scrapping the whole idea that there are states of Consciousness at all along with the belief that some are higher or lower than others.

It is only from the relative state that there are not.  From your current state.  If you think that's all that reality is then like i said to @VeganAwake that is what it is to you.   Its a mindfuck.  But it also indicates you are closing your mind.

[Mu_]

7 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

That's interesting because they seem like completely different messages all together... like not similar in any way.

I'm pointing out the one that believes it can become aware of infinite Consciousness isn't real at all, it's an absolute illusion or dream story.

He's saying there is something or someone that can become aware of a this apparent higher state of consciousness.

I'm saying that higher state of consciousness is part of the dream story and is Maya illusions.

 

Ya they seem like completely different messages and not similar in any way, but the one that believes it can become aware of infinite consciousness is no more less real than anything else, in fact is everything else because there is nothing that is not everything......

There is no higher states and there is no Maya.

[VeganAwake]

2 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Ya they seem like completely different messages and not similar in any way, but the one that believes it can become aware of infinite consciousness is no more less real than anything else, in fact is everything else because there is nothing that is not everything......

There is no higher states and there is no Maya.

I get what you're saying..

The illusion I'm attempting to describe is the experience of the finite individual within the body that believes it can become aware of something called higher consciousness...

You're right ultimately it's not real but the experience is that it's real hence why it's called an illusion...

Do you understand this?

[Someone here]

Again This thread is slowly turning into a talk about nothing at all lmao. ?

[VeganAwake]

2 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

@VeganAwake remember before you found out about no-self?

What was the difference between then and now?

State of consciousness, right?

Well, maybe there's more...

I just wouldn't describe it as a state of consciousness I would say it's a deep recognition that the sense of self experienced in the body is an absolute illusion... reason being States come and go when this is recognized it's not going anywhere... 

The separate sense of 'self' always needs to experience more or the seeking energy will die which is actually what waking up is.

When it's recognized the one that is seeking is an illusion it takes the wind out of the sail sort of speak and the seeking energy dies because it's recognized as being never real and that there's nothing to find anyways.

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Someone here said:

Again This thread is slowly turning into a talk about nothing at all lmao. ?

Really? I think its pretty deep stuff.  But then again - this is a place to compare notes.  If you have an open mind you might gain something - or not.  Too much time should not be spent on the forum if you wanna actually become Truth.   If you wanna babble about it - this is the place to be.  The problem with an open forum like this is you have to be wise enough to separate the wheat from the chaff.  When you listen to a spiritual teacher there is only one guy talking.  And you can take it or leave it.  Which of course you can here

 

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 I'm referring to @VeganAwake . 

It's interesting how he is desperately trying to make you guys get that there's nothing to get ??

[Nak Khid]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We have been debating over duality being an illusion for months now.  It is an illusion, but it exists.  Just like nothingness exists.  

Come on, you still believe nothing exists?  That's so 2018

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Nak Khid said:

Come on, you still believe nothing exists?  That's so 2018

I think i love you the most.  You know EXACTLY when sarcasm is needed

 

[An young being]

This might give a different perspective : Imagine or realize all human beings are fundamentally the same (made up of the same material called consciousness). Then what differentiates a human being from another human being ? Memory (or karma we call it) gives a human being an unique character, it may be genetic or memories you acquire during your experience of life. Now imagine I delete all your memory and somehow modify your genetic material also (both are not possible now but definitely within our ability) . I copy all your friend's memory ( body and mind) and put it inside yours. Imagine you are still alive after doing all this. Now, are you experiencing your pov or your friend's pov?

[Mu_]

@Someone here

 

So let me get something clear so I'm better understanding of your position.  Do you believe Solipsism or do you just think its a good position that is hard to refute or can't be refuted, but dont believe it yourself?

 

Either way, in my opinion, Solipsism's position that you can't prove  you are a self - aware human being or not a robot or not a character in your dream is unprovable, I dont agree with.  I may not know how to prove it, but it doesn't mean its not able to be done.   But again I'd imagine if it were, there could be distinctions, definitions, classifications made and there would be agreance of what is and is not allowed to be accepted as evidence or proof, lol.  Or perhaps you'd just find out like any kind of new understanding just happens at some point.

That said, I believe I know what you are, but I can't prove it like a semantic/philosophical/or scientific proof trys to do on a paper with variables or reasons or observations.

Again, what are you trying to understand in all this?  I've lost track....

[Member]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I can only tell you what i became directly conscious of.  I am not saying there are other minds with their own independent perspectives.

Other minds with independent perspectives have nothing to do with the independent perspective of your mind. Hence, they are not finite or limited by 'other minds' because the only limit is set by the mind. This means that you're only imagining that you're this or that and identify with the story but it's just a roleplay. You are not a game character, you are not a human, nor this or that. You are the entire screen imagining things. The mind is not limited by other minds... it is limited by you.

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

The question then remained why couldn't i then shift to a different finite mind?  This really boggled my "brain" for a while because the way i was integrating this realization afterwards was that there were still other finite minds happening simultaneously.

Because it is not finite or dependent on your own. The mind is infinite and independent like a spider spinning its web.

The spider is not the web it creates. The purpose of a web is to catch prays so that the spider can survive.

It's stupid for a spider to die in the web (narrative) of another spider.

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

But again i go back to when i am in this state of consciousness i am not currently directly conscious that you are a projection of my mind.   Like i said if i were i would go insane. So God creates this level of consciousness - a dual state.

Sorry but I'm not sure that I understood the last part. Why do you say that you would go insane? Maybe because you're a human with flesh and bones, while God is pure consciousness? ?

[Inliytened1]

49 minutes ago, Member said:

 

 

Sorry but I'm not sure that I understood the last part. Why do you say that you would go insane? Maybe because you're a human with flesh and bones, while God is pure consciousness? ?

If you directly became conscious that you were "alone" as God then come back and tell me how you did in duality.  Duality is precisely duality for the very purpose of forgetting what you are.  If you knew directly what you were you would cease to exist as you and you would be God.

So coming back to duality requires integration.

And there is a state in between as consciousness closes itself up.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@Someone here

10 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Again, what are you trying to understand in all this?  I've lost track....

Perhaps if you understand that what you seek to understand can only be understood through nonunderstanding.

Maybe your understanding that there is something to be understood is a misunderstanding. 

[An young being]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Perhaps if you understand that what you seek to understand can only be understood through nonunderstanding.

Maybe your understanding that there is something to be understood is a misunderstanding. 

Is this called philosophy?

 

35 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Come on, you still believe nothing exists?  That's so 2018

I still believe everything exists since I was born. He atleast had one change in belief.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, An young being said:

Is this called philosophy?

27 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

 

No that's the theory of everything.