can we explain psychedelics under the materialist paradigm ?

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Javfly33 it's a pragmatic assumption for you to be able to function in life. 

Try to deprogram your mind from the assumption that the world behind your back exists even when you are not seeing it.. And say good bye to your entire sense of reality. 

Truth is not the same from all POVs. There is the absolute POV and then there is the pragmatic and relative POV. From the absolute POV you actually don't know Jack shit about anything lol other than this.  From the relative POV you are forced to make all kinds of assumptions to be able to function in life. 

From the posts I read from leo, That's the whole goal of Awakening

To put truth before your survival interest.

[Galyna]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Actual yellow exists and imaginary yellow exists. The first exists as an object.

Color is not an object, it is a property of it.

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

There is the absolute POV and then there is the pragmatic and relative POV.

Seems like a bubble inside of the bubble... Matryoshka doll 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Galyna

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Galyna said:

What is the mind then? 

It's an abstract concept. There is no "mind" in actuality.  What you call the mind is in fact a collection of thoughts and memories and images etc that you mistakenly labeled as one solid entity called " the mind". 

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

From the posts I read from leo, That's the whole goal of Awakening

To put truth before your survival interest.

I agree with him.  You can't access full truth if you are attached to survival because that will automatically distort your views and make you less objective. But then again the truth is ever present. So it doesn't matter what you assume.  

Edited June 6, 2020 by Someone here

[Galyna]

Just now, Someone here said:

It's an abstract concept. There is no "mind" in actuality.  What you call the mind is in fact a collection of thoughts and memories and images etc that you mistakenly labeled as one solid entity called " the mind". 

Thank you for your response. I do apologize if I wrote something to upset you or if it looks like I am picking on you. I promise I am not. Talking with newbies is cool because it helps me to grasp some things better. 

So you said that the mind is a collections of things like: thoughts, memories and images. But what are they if we study them separately? What is an image?

I love it, lets keep going  

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's not about giving up.I'm not fighting over ideas . That's just one Way of looking at it the scientific approach. Under the materialist paradigm that's the explanation for psychedelics. What if you don't buy the materialist paradigm in the first place as it's the case with most people in this forum.?.   What if you don't believe there is such a thing as "the brain" outside of your imagination of it?  What if correlation doesn't mean causality?. These can take you to a different paradigm.   I'm not trying to be biased to any specific paradigm. I'm just presenting the material explanation of psychedelics because some people think it can't be explained by material philosophy. For different perspectives to merge and see who's right. 

If all people here agree particular chemicals can cause altered states

that means all people here are acknowledging a material phenomenon is real and can predict some sort of reaction.

One could say it might be forever impossible  to explain the particulars of this effect  to experience but one would not 
deny that a chemical, a material thing can cause a change in consciousness . 

This book can be had for as little as $2 used.
British neurologist, naturalist, historian of science, and author Oliver Sacks has taken psychedelics himself
and recounts the experience in the book as well as discussing  variety of causes 
for hallucinations.The purpose of Hallucinations was to take away the public fear of symptoms relating to mental illness by showcasing many instances where healthy individuals experienced hallucinations. Sacks also uses this book to educate society on the different types of hallucinations some neurological influences behind hallucinations.
This is not to say that hallucination is the only effect that certain psychedelics have but it often is one of them. 

 

 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Galyna said:

 

So you said that the mind is a collections of things like: thoughts, memories and images. But what are they if we study them separately? What is an image?

 

What is anything?  What is is?  What is what? (these are serious questions.. Try to answer them). 

You can keep pushing the question further and further to infinity and beyond and it won't end. 

To answer what is X?  Just look at it directly and there is your answer. 

For example :what is the sun?.  Go read thousands of pages explaining what is the sun and you will still not know what it is ultimately. The very "isness" of the sun is a total mystery that cannot be unraveled . Same with everything else . With all of reality. 

The sun is the sun.. Look at it.. That's what it is. 

 

[Forestluv]

@Someone here Some insights are arising ?. Curiosity, exploration, discovery, fluidity and expansion. . .so magnificent. 

[Galyna]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is anything?  What is is?  What is what? (these are serious questions.. Try to answer them). 

You can keep pushing the question further and further to infinity and beyond and it won't end. 

To answer what is X?  Just look at it directly and there is your answer. 

For example :what is the sun?.  Go read thousands of pages explaining what is the sun and you will still not know what it is ultimately. The very "isness" of the sun is a total mystery that cannot be unraveled . Same with everything else . With all of reality. 

The sun is the sun.. Look at it.. That's what it is. 

 

I like the way you answering me, thank you.  Actually by asking you, I am trying to decompose it myself.

Okay, personally for me anything is awareness (always of something). Our minds like to think with categories. 

 

[Someone here]

@Nak Khid don't worry. Psychedelics are not easily obtained by any one. To obtain them a lot of research must he done first. And you will come across information regarding the risks of it. So I think most people are mindful of the potential risks of taking psychedelics. 

[Galyna]

10 hours ago, Galyna said:

Just look at it directly and there is your answer. 

Yep, ultimately I have to merge with it, to become it

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Galyna

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Someone here Some insights are arising ?. Curiosity, exploration, discovery, fluidity and expansion. . .so magnificent. 

❤️?

[Nak Khid]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nak Khid don't worry. Psychedelics are not easily obtained by any one. To obtain them a lot of research must he done first. And you will come across information regarding the risks of it. So I think most people are mindful of the potential risks of taking psychedelics. 

My last comment was about was about chemistry and neurology 

[Artaemis]

@Serotoninluv ❤

[Red-White-Light]

@Someone here Drug go in brain -> Chemical affects brain -> Brain alters state of consciousness 

[Nak Khid]

10 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Nak Khid Be openminded my man. Drop that materialistic BS. 

YOU are Infinite Love. 

wrong, I'm infinite peace.

that is even higher, but you are not ready yet 

Do the work!! 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are God.   You are Nak Khid.  Infinite Peace

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Red-White-Light said:

@Someone here Drug go in brain -> Chemical affects brain -> Brain alters state of consciousness 

I knew it lol.

[zeroISinfinity]

6 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

wrong, I'm infinite peace.

that is even higher, but you are not ready yet 

Do the work!! 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are God.   You are Nak Khid.  Infinite Peace

Egoic mind under attack. Defense is futile. Nice reactions. 

God ain't no separate from it's creation. Look around and recognise yourself 

[zeroISinfinity]

Always very nice to watch death of super mario or ?. 

?

[WaveInTheOcean]

12 hours ago, Red-White-Light said:

@Someone here Drug go in brain -> Chemical affects brain -> Brain alters state of consciousness 

ehehehehehe

To take that position - and only that position - is very close-minded and not the whole truth:-)

A more full perspective is this:

consciousness/imaginary psychedelics go into my imaginary brain -> consciousness affects my imaginary brain -> my 'personal direct qualia-like-consciousness' is changed and simultaneously my imaginary brain is changed when I study it - as consciousness - using some scanner/EEG.

Let me ask you something red-white-light:

When you have a patient under the influence of psilocybin in a MRI-scanner and observe the pictures showing changes in his brain, who's observing those pictures/the results of the MRI-scanner? Consciousness.

And do you get direct access to the patient's qualia-subjective-experience by studying his brain in a scanner/EEG? No. Can we ever get direct access to the patient's subjective-qualia-like experience by studying his brain? No. 

YOU ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO THE PATIENT'S SUBJECTIVE-QUALIA-LIKE EXPERIENCE BECAUSE YOU ARE THE PATIENT. THE PATIENT IS YOU. HAHAHAHA <3

Consciousness is the ground of being, my friend. It's what comes first.
It is the canvas on which everything else is painted on.

Consciousness is: 
- 'that' which creates form,
- 'that' which perceives form, 
- 'the canvas' on which form is painted,
- 'the substance' of form itself.
 

Quote

Form is emptiness
Emptiness is form

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean