can we explain psychedelics under the materialist paradigm ?

[Nak Khid]

when you put certain chemicals into your bloodstream it alters the chemistry of the brain that controls the senses and perception 

[Galyna]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Contemplate how a bullet (an imaginary thing) going through your skull (an imaginary thing) can kill you (an imaginary thing).

I do not know if it can kill me (I have never been dead before) so both these statements, aka can/can not, are in unverifiable mode right now, as a Schrödinger's cat. Might kill, might not, guess I will find out what can/can not kill me when I am dead, or still alive. 

 

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How come in a dream you are able to walk on the floor when the floor is imaginary? Shouldn't you fall through?

Unlike the other claim, this one is easy. I am not going to fall through because I am a part of the imaginary reality. Like  pixels on the screen for the cartoon, none of it is glitch, they perfectly line up as a whole. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Galyna

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Galyna said:

I do not think it can kill me (I have never been dead before) so both of this statements, aka can/can not, are in unverifiable mode right now, as a Schrödinger's cat. Might kill, might not, guess I will find out what can/can not kill me when I am dead, or still alive.

But you understand that if we put a bullet through your mother's skull she will die. How come, if the bullet is imaginary?

[Jacobsrw]

52 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Another 5 cents:

@Leo Gura

I do not get one thing: how imaginary psychedelic that is given to imaginary ego ( notice! both do not exist in the absolute sense) can trigger true awakening and buy you a "ticket to the Moon"? (Where the Moon is a non-dual state, so called Truth.)

It is like handing a lottery ticket to the cartoon character through the screen, where the ticket is a paper and the character is just a bunch of pixels on the screen. Semantically speaking, these are two different dimensions. One is 2D another is 3D and the Truth is a 4D ( hypothetically speaking) 

I can not wrap my mind around it, since all is matrix (lets just call it this way) and psychedelics are a part of it, but they can pull you out of this matrix.

 

Because some imaginations are so powerful they have the capacity to culminate higher states of consciousness. Psychedelics being one of them. However, psychedelics are not a binary lottery ticket to awakening. They merely illuminate the path in which one is required to walk through the awakening process. That individual still requires waking it.

Dreams are no different. How can one become so frightened by a conceptual figment of their imagination such that it manipulates their everyday behaviour? Simply, because some dreams are so powerful they can alter states of consciousness. And further more, everyday life is no more real than the dream state, it just appears of more solidity. They are synonymous.

Consciousness may imagine all things, but not all things are given equal weight in producing the awareness it has of its self.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Galyna]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But you understand that if we put a bullet through your mother's skull she will die. How come, if the bullet is imaginary?

Because mother and bullet are just appearances, might be agents of "my" Reality. How do I know if she is real or not if I do experience this reality from first person? She can be dead for me, but!!! I am not dead, therefore, it is all part of my experience including her death? To acknowledge someone's death requires me in this equation. No me, no mama's death.

Does it prove that my death as real as her, absolutely not....I have never been dead before. Everything that outside of my experience can be anything and I can not verify it, thus I can not take it as a face value. I can ultimately only trust my own experience. That is all I know!

 

 

 

[Galyna]

15 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

Because some imaginations are so powerful they have the capacity to culminate higher states of consciousness.

would that not require shift from being a mere illusion and to become Truth? 

I just can not get it, how a paper ticket can be handed to an cartoon character. I am struggling because they are made of different substances. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Galyna

[Jacobsrw]

19 minutes ago, Galyna said:

would that not require shift from being a mere illusion and to become Truth?

No because the truth is not the psychedelic experience. The Truth is within what the psychedelic experience points to. Which is far beyond what any ordinary ego-mind could detect in its ordinary state of consciousness. Hence the power of psychedelics.

Truth or consciousness, is independent of the thing in which is used to point to it. Although the Truth and the pointer directed toward truth are one, this collapse does not occur until the self collapses. Hence why a heightened experience is required.

This can be equally experienced in long meditative states.

But don’t merely take my word for it, as it I just heresay, I invite you to experience it yourself 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Galyna]

21 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

The Truth is within what the psychedelic experience points to.

I get this part.

 

21 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

This can be equally experienced in long meditative states.

Have you ever had one? There is no sarcasm in my statement, just curiosity. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Galyna

[Jacobsrw]

14 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Have you ever had one?

Depends on what you qualify as long haha. I’ve done several hours or so. But not a full day or anything.

Im using aspects of my experiences as well as testimony from others. I personally have not had a meditative state produce depth equal to a psychedelic experience. I would require enormous amounts of solitude and sitting.

I plan on doing a long days sitting doing then contemplation psychedelics and self inquiry on my mid semester break. Also plan on doing a vipassana in the near future.

My hope is to experience what I can on a psychedelic in mediation. Probably not going to happen however.

 

[Galyna]

5 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

Probably not going to happen however.

Think positive and it will  

Good luck.

[Jacobsrw]

8 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Think positive and it will  

Good luck.

We will see, thank you 

52 minutes ago, Galyna said:

I just can not get it, how a paper ticket can be handed to an cartoon character. I am struggling because they are made of different substances. 

Just to refer to your earlier point.

Simply because they are one in the same. The paper ticket is as real as the character receiving it. Hence the synonymous relationship. They only appear divided until the ticket is received from which they then become one again.

Consciousness is nothingness and so is a psychedelic experience. However, the mind has obscured this singularity by ascribing them different values since they appear relative and different through the lens of mind. Once the mind, the “I” realises its categories are illusory the “self” creating the division will dissolve and the psychedelic state becomes just as synonymous to the nothingness of consciousness.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Galyna said:

I have been asking this question for quite a while. "How so?"

I do not know, I have not taken psychedelics. 

But lesson is learned. Taking psychedelics does not mean or imply being a spiritual person who is mastering or dissolving their ego. 

I do not care how much psychedelics you take, if you lack some human interaction basics, to me that speaks more than any of your claims about God, Love and Infinity. 

Actions, my dear, actions....words do not cost a thing.

What I meant to ask is what specific actions are you talking about? What does dissolving the ego have to entail for your actions?

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I understand you meant mapping reality. If you cannot see and observe the relationship between the explanation and the explained, you will have a distorted view.

You like to use science as some type of authority. How well do you actually understand science? How many hours have you actually been in a lab conducting science? How many hours have you spent interpreting your empirical data, modifying your hypothesis, re-designing experiments, and creating and presenting your models and getting feedback on your models? I am a science professor and have spent about 60,000 hours immersed in actually conducting science. To me, you have a very surface level understanding of what science is and massively over-estimate your understanding. It’s like you’ve taken two hours of Chinese language instruction and you now think you can speak Chinese, understand Chinese history and culture and know what it’s like to live in China and be a Chinese person. 

To me you are just taking stuff personally.  I never said I'm a scientist. I'm a normal folk. I'm actually a philosophy student.  I don't think I claimed science has authority over truth. I stated many times science has limits. Stop spreading misinformation about me and what I know and what I don't know and just get to my points.   Being a science professor doesn't give you authority ironically you speak about authority and then you appeal to authority by saying you are a science professor.  Who knows if you are a science professor or not?  But regardless that doesn't give you authority.  A thing is a true because it's true not because someone says it's true. 

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, 4201 said:

Going at war with people. 

I will stop you here. I'm not going at "war" with no one. That's your own projections and distorted views. Look closely. 

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

when you put certain chemicals into your bloodstream it alters the chemistry of the brain that controls the senses and perception 

Spot on! 

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, The observer said:

@Someone here That's a good example of what I was referring to.

Gotcha! 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

To me you are just taking stuff personally.  I never said I'm a scientist. I'm a normal folk. I'm actually a philosophy student.  I don't think I claimed science has authority over truth. I stated many times science has limits. Stop spreading misinformation about me and what I know and what I don't know and just get to my points.   Being a science professor doesn't give you authority ironically you speak about authority and then you appeal to authority by saying you are a science professor.  Who knows if you are a science professor or not?  But regardless that doesn't give you authority.  A thing is a true because it's true not because someone says it's true. 

If you would like to broaden and deepen your view of science and it’s relationship to reality, I would recommend listening to, and learning from, people that have gained expertise within science, have transcended science and can see the big picture, rather than accuse them of lying about their experience. 

I never claimed authority, yet I would be considered an authority in my areas of specialty by societal standards. Yet this has little relevance in the bigger picture that is transcendent to science. 

And upon further reflection, I came down too hard on you relative to where you are at.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

when you put certain chemicals into your bloodstream it alters the chemistry of the brain that controls the senses and perception 

Thanks. I didn't know that.

[Someone here]

@Serotoninluv sorry but I will just let it go. Me and you are always repeating the same dialogue in every thread of mine. The same points from both me and you are being repeated . I promise you I'm well aware of everything you are saying but the thing is with that kinda attitude we can't have any discussion because it excludes any level under(what you think is under) the level that you think you are at.   So I will just let it go. 

And I'm sorry if you perceived what I said as an accused you of lying.   All I meant I can't be sure of that.  I can tell you anything about myself but how are you supposed to know if I'm being honest?.  Crediting oneself has no value here. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Someone here

[Forestluv]

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Serotoninluv  I promise you I'm well aware of everything you are saying

You are not. You are unaware of how radical, deep and expansive it gets.

As I’ve said, I was immersed within a rational, logical, scientific paradigm for 25 years of my adult life before transcending it. I know these dynamics very well. There are aspects you are unaware of and assuming you are aware will limit you. Your potential is far greater than you are aware of. 

If you are serious about transcending the current paradigm you are within, I would highly recommend utilizing psychedelics. They will dissolve all of your rational/logical/science constructs and help you expand and awaken.