Argue Againts the Existence of Objective Reality

[Mert]

The title says it all. I am curious. Notice that I didn't say external reality. There is no external or internal reality. Just one reality. But it seems that some things are actually true that we can or can't agree on. How do we explain this? The reason I'm asking this is to refer to situations like this: Imagine that someone accuses you of stealing something from the supermarket and you know you didn't steal anything. You are sure. You ask them how did they come to this conclusion maybe there is a misunderstanding. And the answer is something like: "Well, I already know you did. You are a stealer and a lier" and no further explanation. They are just convinced. This is a more extreme example but less serious versions of this happens in real life. I refuse to explain this situation just by saying. "Well, my perception and his perception of reality didn't match. Too bad". It's deeper than that. In that situation, you would say: "No this is not a matter of perception. I didn't steal. It's true, and therefore their perception is false for whatever reason". I hope you get where I'm coming from. How can we integrate the "Truth" of a situation without referring to the existence of objective reality? Because I care about what is "actually" true, regardless of whatever I or someone else fucking thinks. That's why I got into non-duality in the first place.

[Leo Gura]

@Mert If you get the bottom-most layer of reality you will realize that there is only you, imagining everything and everyone else.

So "objective reality" or "consensus reality" is just a very deep layer of your own hallucination. You need to imagine this layer in order to construct "reality" and trick yourself into thinking there is a world and other people.

In other words, this is how God creates "reality": by hallucinating others and imagining that those others have perceptions and that they can agree or disagree with yours.

It's ALL a fucking illusion. "Objective" here simply means that you hallucinate others who agree with you.

You say you want the Truth, but you can't handle the Truth. You want other to be real.

[Roy]

@Leo Gura Of course pure solipsism is not what you mean when you say that, I've absorbed enough of your content to know that's not what you're advocating.

But what do you say to explain yourself to the people that can easily interpret these statements as solipsism?

Are you not changing your language because you're expecting people to just understand there is a deeper meaning than what you're saying at face value?

[Leo Gura]

@Roy I'm not here to sugarcoat things for you.

If you got an emotional problem with solipsism, then you're not serious or ready for this work.

If you want to get to the rock bottom of reality, if you want to understand how reality is truly constructed -- this is a very radical thing -- and you will not achieve this without biting many bullets.

Yes, it feels a lot like solipsism. Get the fuck over it. You are God and God is ONE.

I'm tired of hearing people whine about solipsism. Stomaching solipsism is just the preliminary hurdle. There will be even more shocking things to stomach.

[Roy]

@Leo Gura You misunderstand friend. I'm not asking for myself, I don't have a problem with it. I'm asking from others positions, just wanted to hear your thoughts.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Roy said:

@Leo Gura You misunderstand friend. I'm not asking for myself, I don't have a problem with it. I'm asking from others positions, just wanted to hear your thoughts.

And I'm not answering you personally, I'm answering people in general who bring up this point.

You have heard my thoughts.

[Javfly33]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mert If you get the bottom-most layer of reality you will realize that there is only you, imagining everything and everyone else.

So "objective reality" or "consensus reality" is just a very deep layer of your own hallucination. You need to imagine this layer in order to construct "reality" and trick yourself into thinking there is a world and other people.

In other words, this is how God creates "reality": by hallucinating others and imagining that those others have perceptions and that they can agree or disagree with yours.

It's ALL a fucking illusion. "Objective" here simply means that you hallucinate others who agree with you.

You say you want the Truth, but you can't handle the Truth. You want other to be real.

At this point is obvious there is an infinite number of Gods, imagining each of one them a reality. Why you guys don't talk about this? Is undeniable

If not, the truth would be that that I am writing on a keyboard right now but talking with nobody. The screen itself is being imagined an someone named LeoGura being imagined as an user forum.

This phone is not reaching out to Leo in USA between an internet server, no, that's just a backstory . I'm just imagining that so I can construct a story of other.

No, no fucking way 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

No, no fucking way 

Exactly.

You are not ready.

8 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

Martin Ball also says all those hallicinations are just projections, there are no machine elves.

Well, reality is a projection. So machine elves are no less real than Martin Ball.

At the bottom-most level, nothing is real because it's all a projection. But this is NOT the level that most of us are in contact with or live from or even care to know.

But also consider, just because something is a projection doesn't make it inferior or less than. Projections are just as valid as anything else.

Yeah... you project machine elves and Martin Ball. So what? Life goes on.

Once you realize that everything is a projection, you're sort of left right where you began.

[The Don]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, reality is a projection.

Reality is an awesome projection. What can be more magnificent than reality?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, The Don said:

What can be more magnificent than reality?

Pure Infinity

[The observer]

@Mert That's called "the hard problem of science". There's no other way around it than to ground yourself in your own truth. Except that you can ground yourself in someone else's truth too. It works both ways.

It's all up to you (said me ?)

☯️

Edited May 13, 2020 by The observer

[Someone here]

I won't argue against objective reality because there is nothing to argue against it.  You made the distinction between the internal and the external. The external is objective reality. You can't be sure if it exists outside of you perceiving it and at the same time you can't deny it's apparent independent existence.  So it would be wise of you to just accept that's it's here and it's independent of your wishes. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Someone here

[WHO IS]

And yet again dear Friends, these revelations change nothing. We still here, projecting a an existence in which we exist as fragile and weak animal species. 

What do we have to look forward? Getting older, more ill and senile? 

So the question then is, why da heck are we projecting this?

For example Jesus said that if one has a miniscule of faith, one can do things greater then what Jesus did. 

But do we do? Nah, we still are in the form of vurnurble animal species. 

But if We are projecting reality, then we should be able to project whatever da heck we want 

Edited May 13, 2020 by WHO IS

[Member]

5 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

But if We are projecting reality, then we should be able to project whatever da heck we want 

Not sure if it works that way. I've had some sleep hallucinations which looked real AF and the beings seemed to have a life of their own. This made me think that maybe life could be similar to a really complex hallucination (not in a literal sense though). Also, how do we know if we're not some kind of philosophical zombies programmed to see/feel things? There are dozens of scenarios... reality could be indeed weirder than that.

[Mert]

@Leo Gura Yes Leo I agree with you. I'm in the middle of a root awakening myself these days. Realizing that I'm God for seconds and laughing and crying at the same time. But this is just way too deep, I'm interested in this because I wanna share these insights just like you and make a better argument for it. Because if I just say "just mediate bro" they don't take it seriously. That's why I'm trying to conceptualize the unconceptualizable and it's really frustrating.(Also for intellectual reasons)  I feel like even on a relative level, being curious about subjects like biology, psychology, physics etc. and trying to get the "truth" of the situation has a divine element to it. It's like a divine reflex. Maybe God created the so-called "objective reality" to show the arrogant ego that "Hey you stupid, there is something that you are not aware of and its true, wake the fuck up!" I don't know. This is what I'm referring to: Let's say an arrogant materialist scientist accuses you of being woo-woo and bullshit. And you say "Look, look at this hand! What is "actually" true about it? Not your ideas and projections about it." There is a "Truth" to the situation right? This is the reflex I'm talking about. Why we simply wouldn't say, "Oh okay, if you say so, I guess that's your perception. Have a good day". Even if you said that you would still think that he is fucking deluded. Doesn't matter he is you or both of you are God. I understand your answer but my question is more on a relative level I guess. Maybe I'm trying to conceptualize all this because I too scared of God lol

[Nahm]

@Mert Your op is essentially which one of us knows the truth, yes? (Of self / objective world & finite mind) Seeing the humor here?

[Mert]

Well. It's more like: What is a "separate self" referring to when her/she makes a truth claim?

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, WHO IS said:

And yet again dear Friends, these revelations change nothing. We still here, projecting a an existence in which we exist as fragile and weak animal species. 

What do we have to look forward? Getting older, more ill and senile? 

So the question then is, why da heck are we projecting this?

For example Jesus said that if one has a miniscule of faith, one can do things greater then what Jesus did. 

But do we do? Nah, we still are in the form of vurnurble animal species. 

But if We are projecting reality, then we should be able to project whatever da heck we want 

It's already happening, you are projecting a separate self that thinks "why the hell I can't project a hot witch gf and a Lamborghini?".

What you want is already the case Lol

[wordsforliving]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stomaching solipsism is just the preliminary hurdle. There will be even more shocking things to stomach.

@Leo Gura Is it too soon to disclose what are the more shocking things to stomach?  Trying to prepare for more difficult hurdles. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by wordsforliving

[The observer]

1 hour ago, Mert said:

Well. It's more like: What is a "separate self" referring to when her/she makes a truth claim?

To your imagination, duh! ?