I read a book about Pornography, it left me thinking: Why it's even legal?

[Amit]

@LfcCharlie4

9 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Banning is completely the wrong approach, absolute freedom means we have the choice to consume what we wish. 

Banning for right reason is not that wrong as it seems. Can you give this absolute freedom to consume to your child who doesn't know that eating chillies will burn her mouth. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

I see a lot of problems with porn. But I feel like banning porn would create more harm than good.

Porn does create unrealistic expectations in men. And some women try to live up to these unrealistic expectations in order to gain validation.

But I wouldn't call it validation. Those men don't sleep with them  because they like them. They are just objects for masturbation. Sex for them is literally a form of masturbation. No intimacy. No personality. They turn into literal cavemen. Just pure primal drive.

Go to any porn site and just read the comments. I find them disgusting.

I found a website the other day that contained celebrity nudes that had been leaked (aka stolen) and I was watching some of them. I was actually enjoying them, not gonna lie, but then I went to the comments. They were fucking disgusting. They were literally talking about these women as if they were objects. They disgusted me so much that I just couldn't get turned on because I felt too sorry for these girls.

And that is the point. I just feel so sorry for most of these girls. I'm not going to act like I'm Jesus here. I still jerk off to porn (I kind of want to stop and to just masturbate without the porn)

But it's just so sad. They spend their entire lives being not more than just some object. They might have money. They might have fame. But what is it worth? What do you think would happen if they tried to change their lives? If they tried to get out of this industry? How many of their "fans" would remain? Who would support them? Some would. Maybe. But probably only a hand full. That saddens me so fucking much. But it is what it is.

But there are still positives. Imagine that the same cavemen that wrote these comments didn't have any porn. Like what would they do without their porn?

I just went to some random video and this is literally the first comments I found:

Quote

My fucking goddess I would wreck that every second of the year til she gapes like an open manhole then I’d turn that shit into a panic room and go to work on her asshole with a jackhammer and a Joker grin.

What would happen if those people wouldn't have their porn? I don't want to know.

 

But I'm probably being overly moralistic here. I'll just try to get away from that shit. I feel like it is unhealthy (for me at least, I bet there are guys who have a more healthy relationship to porn)

[Preety_India]

@remember

I think you mean soft porn then. 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Amit  In this situation, banning seems completely the wrong approach to me, sorry. 

And, this is from someone in the process of quitting Porn. 

Banning will just create underground Porn, like we now have an underground Drug trade. 

[Preety_India]

 

3 minutes ago, remember said:

well i guess it’s even weird to put porn into genres, because then what is called porn is in a lot of cases just aggressive. but there is actually sth called art pornography and there is a genre called erotica, which is not really porn, because it stimulates more of the senses.

But what are you to do for more of genital stimulation than sensory? 

@LfcCharlie4 totally agree with you. 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

 

52 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 Banning is completely the wrong approach, absolute freedom means we have the choice to consume what we wish. 
 

If that is a life on porn, weed, junk food and coke, then so be it. Often, people aren’t happy with these lifestyles and decide to “transcend” them and become happier, these people may decide to quit using porn. 
 

For example, I think Coca Cola is poison so don’t ever drink it, that doesn’t mean I think it should be banned, as some people wish to drink it, despite the health effects, that is their choice as a human. Maybe one day, enough people will stop drinking it and care more about their health, in that Coca Cola will actually have to create a healthy product in response. 
 

I actually think the opposite regarding Drugs, and believe they should all be made legal, so users can 1) get a cleaner product and 2) Addicts can get the help they need. If we ban porn maybe it’ll follow down the whole looking down on Porn addicts as most of society does with drugs. 
 

It’s a complex issue with Porn, because to overcome the addiction it isn’t as easy as simply not watching, it is usually a sign of some underlying issue, so needs a bit more effort than just stopping watching, for many “No-Fap” is a gateway into personal development work. 
 

Personally, I have struggled with Porn for a long time, and I realised it was because I wasn’t being sexually expressive with my ex-GF, we didn’t talk enough about what we both really wanted from our sex life. 
 

Currently, I’m on a 90 day Porn reset which you have probably heard of, and I feel it’s exactly what I need right now  

Your post is absolutely terrific and mind blowing. Great insight there. 

You've shown amazing level of open mindedness. Really appreciate it. 

Would you mind if I include your insights in my journal? 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Preety_India Thank you I really appreciate it! 
 

it comes from a place of suffering with Porn addiction for a long time haha! 
 

And, of course feel free  

 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

What about people that have one hot dog every day or two? 'Moderation' like with porn?

Of course

Quote

Still not really advisable is it?

Go enjoy a damn hot dog.

Too much spiritual posturing going on here.

[Enlightenment]

It spikes dopamine of course lol. Eating pasta does as well

I think most of these no-faps, dopamine detoxes is a placebo effect.

I used to sometimes fap to porn while being on a high dose of amphetamine and guess what? The only side effect was some drowsiness the next day (more so first half of the day). So even 1000% of dopamine levels fucked me up for 24h at most and then I felt normal again

[LfcCharlie4]

@Enlightenment Yeah agree to an extent. 
 

However, some people are genuinely addicted to Porn and it Fs them up and limits their growth as a person, think the typical mums basement playing video games all day, and No-Fap could be a spearhead to a “better” life. 
 

I think it’s a case by case basis, like most things, and it isn’t a one size fits all approach. 
 

If people want to quit porn, video games, junk food etc then so be it. 
 

If not then enjoy them! 
 

For me Porn & Junk Food are 2 things I personally quit as I have quite an addictive personality, and porn used to effect my relationship to an extent, and I was a little obese as a child. 
 

Every case is different  

[Arcangelo]

I effing hate when someone says they read a book and they just lazily listened to an audio file.

[wordsforliving]

Back in 1986 or so the U.S. Dept of Justice had a commission on pornography and released a report. This research or report was quite extensive and I read the entire thing since I was a DOJ employee and worked for a federal prosecutor at that time. I was quite shocked at how pornography was tied to the background of so much violent crime. After reading the entire Dept of Justice official report, I never again viewed pornography as something unharmful. The New York Times released an article with the headline: JUSTICE DEPT. PORNOGRAPHY STUDY FINDS MATERIAL IS TIED TO VIOLENCE. A tiny blub about it is here - https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/14/us/justice-dept-pornography-study-finds-material-is-tied-to-violence.html
The actual Dept. of Justice report was hundreds of pages and quite extensive and included statistics and details on federal cases. 

The DOJ commission on pornography was dismantled in 2011, but the DOJ's legal attention remains on child pornography. But other than that, of course it will never be made illegal. 

Anti-pornography interests want to push the DOJ to enforce existing federal obscenity laws - https://endsexualexploitation.org/doj/. But the DOJ is far more interested in frying much bigger fish or political interests. No crackdown of any sort will ever happen other than child pornography. 

Other research is compiled here for those interested - https://pornharmsresearch.com/

------------------------------------------------------------

If one has a desire to raise their consciousnesses and move towards enlightenment aggressively, pornography will not assist that process. Neither does crappy food, but fast food and junk food is easy and convenient to consume so most of us fall into the bad food trap. But pornography calibrates quite low (100) on the consciousness scale so that is quite a bit of gravity downward into lower consciousness and the addictive quality can make it much harder to go back up the calibration scale towards enlightenment if consumed too much. 

David R. Hawkins has done quite a bit of research in the area of consciousness calibrations which is quite fascinating. 

David-Hawkins-LoC-TvF.pdf

Edited May 11, 2020 by wordsforliving

[Preety_India]

 

 

3 minutes ago, wordsforliving said:

Back in 1986 or so the U.S. Dept of Justice had a commission on pornography and released a report. This research or report was quite extensive and I read the entire thing since I was a DOJ employee and worked for a federal prosecutor at that time. I was quite shocked at how pornography was tied to the background of so much violent crime. After reading the entire Dept of Justice official report, I never again viewed pornography as something unharmful. The New York Times released an article with the headline: JUSTICE DEPT. PORNOGRAPHY STUDY FINDS MATERIAL IS TIED TO VIOLENCE. A tiny blub about it is here - https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/14/us/justice-dept-pornography-study-finds-material-is-tied-to-violence.html
The actual Dept. of Justice report was hundreds of pages and quite extensive and included statistics and details on federal cases. 

The DOJ commission on pornography was dismantled in 2011, but the DOJ's legal attention remains on child pornography. But other than that, of course it will never be made illegal. 

Anti-pornography interests want to push the DOJ to enforce existing federal obscenity laws - https://endsexualexploitation.org/doj/. But the DOJ is far more interested in frying much bigger fish or political interests. No crackdown of any sort will ever happen other than child pornography. 

Other research is compiled here for those interested - https://pornharmsresearch.com/

------------------------------------------------------------

If one has a desire to raise their consciousnesses and move towards enlightenment aggressively, pornography will not assist that process. Neither does crappy food, but fast food and junk food is easy and convenient to consume so most of us fall into the bad food trap. But pornography calibrates quite low (100) on the consciousness scale so that is quite a bit of gravity downward into lower consciousness and the addictive quality can make it much harder to go back up the calibration scale towards enlightenment if consumed too much. 

David R. Hawkins has done quite a bit of research in the area of consciousness calibrations which is quite fascinating. 

David-Hawkins-LoC-TvF.pdf

Thank you for sharing. It's very insightful. 

 

[The observer]

@wordsforliving I'm sorry. I'm not going to click on the links until at least you provide a brief of what they say. Nothing you said intrigued me into looking any further. It just sounds like hogwash for people who originally bought into anti-porn narratives. And my experience of over 5 years of moderate consumption has been satisfying. I don't know what the big deal is.

[freeman194673]

@Leo Gura I don't know why you guys say that porn is okay.
It is as addictive as cocaine.

There are countless studies who prove that.

I'm not anti porn because of religious reasons and I don't want it to get banned because this would backfire and people would consume even more.

But literally dude,porn fries your dopamine receptors ,it desensitizes you.

I don't want to push down your throat my opinion,but maybe you guys need to take into consideration these studies:

Frequent masturbation lowers testosterone utilization https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alonso_Fernandez-Guasti/publication/6536830_Relationship_between_Sexual_Satiety_and_Brain_Androgen_Receptors/links/54b6c2970cf2e68eb27f0321/Relationship-between-Sexual-Satiety-and-Brain-Androgen-Receptors.pdf

Three weeks of abstinence increases testostorone levels https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788

Masturbation is associated with lower psychological health and reproductive well-being https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14681994.2019.1677883

Sperm contains compounds that prolong lifespan, fight cancer & heart disease https://vitalrecord.tamhsc.edu/spermidine-rich-foods-may-prevent-liver-cancer-extend-lifespan/

Men who are sexually active in their 20s and 30s are more likely to develop prostate cancer https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2008.08030.x

Masturbation decreases dopamine levels https://sites.tufts.edu/emotiononthebrain/2014/11/18/postcoital-neurochemistry-the-blues-and-the-highs/

Watching porn reduces gray matter in prefrontal cortex https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/1874574 Porn addiction has similar mechanism with substance addiction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4600144/

Making sperm shortens lifespan of male worms https://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/03/us/in-worm-at-least-making-sperm-is-found-to-shorten-a-male-s-life.html

Masturbating 3 days in a row decreases sperm count by 20% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2054949

Increasing ejaculation frequency decreases sperm count significantly https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15497706

Prevalence of erectile dysfunction doubled between 2004 and 2013 http://cir.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Genital-Image-Sexual-Anxiety-and-Erectile-Dysfunction-Among-Young-Male-Military-Personnel.pdf

Pornography consumption is associated with mental health issues https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6327603/

 

And this made by Gary Wilson: 

 

 

I don't want to seem biased and show you my agenda,but these studies and books(the one by Gary Wilson) are unbiased and show how porn affects the brain.

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/

 

 

 

Also @Leo Gura if I remember corectly you made a video "How society fucks you in the ass" and you said about people who watch porn that they are chimps jerking themselves off to pixels.

And now, after a few years,you come up and say that you have a porn collection on your PC and you act like there's nothing wrong with it.

 

I have a challenge for you Leo, 90 days no porn (the minimum time necessary for a reboot).

PS: I don't want to cricise you, I am just calling for your open-mindness.

PS2: if you are horny you can try to do sexual transmutation.

So let us know if you're willing to take the challenge !!

Edited May 12, 2020 by freeman194673

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

And now, after a few years,you come up and say that you have a porn collection on your PC and you act like there's nothing wrong with it.

Hahaha

I find it funny how you guys assumed I was some puritan this whole time.

Your assumptions and expectations of me aren't my problem, they are yours.

I love myself just the way I am. I don't need to give up anything to be spiritual. That's a limit you impose on yourself.

I can handle porn just fine. If you can't, that's your problem.

[The observer]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I can handle porn just fine. If you can't, that's your problem.

Exactly! When I first started discovering my body, I used to jerk off once a week max. But at that time, I was religious and I used to blame and shame myself all the time. I hated myself. Now, after ridding myself of those dogmas, I can jerk off multiple times a day (rarely though) without feeling bad about it. In fact, I rather feel recharged. The difference is that I started listening to my body instead of my ideas. And that was when the shift occurred.

The same thing with porn. I could very well jerk off with or without it. It's a technology, and everything has its pros and cons. Everything has its limitations and advancements. It's ridiculous to demonise anything, including demonisation hahaha. The only difference is that demonisation gives rise to more ego whereas acceptance kills it.

[freeman194673]

@Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't need to give up anything to be spiritual.

I wasn't talking about spirituality. I don't hold any religious dogma

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I can handle porn just fine. If you can't, that's your problem.

What about all the studies made which prove how detrimental porn is over one's mental health?

These 75 studies let's say: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/porn-use-sex-addiction-studies/studies-linking-porn-use-to-poorer-mental-emotional-health-poorer-cognitive-outcomes/

 

Do they affect most people and you're immune to it somehow?

[freeman194673]

2 hours ago, The observer said:

But at that time, I was religious and I used to blame and shame myself all the time

I am not religious.

 

2 hours ago, The observer said:

It's ridiculous to demonise anything, including demonisation hahaha.

I am not trying to make it seem that it is evil,I am trying to make a point that it can be detrimental to your brain.

Look at these studies: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/porn-use-sex-addiction-studies/studies-linking-porn-use-to-poorer-mental-emotional-health-poorer-cognitive-outcomes .

and @The observer since you barely consume it,why do you talk about it?

Is like Someone says that regular consumption of alcohol is not health.

And you,one who drinks alcohol once a year,come and say : Shut the fuck up,stop demonisiong alcohol consumption that's ridiculous haha.

I'm talking about regular consumption here,if you consume it once a few months that's fine.

Btw,people used to believe that cocaine was good,Sigmund Freud for example was treating his patients with it.

 

[The observer]

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

I am not religious.

But you're scientific, and you'd listen to science over your own body. You'd shut your eyes to your own truth and take what science is telling you.

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

I am not trying to make it seem that it is evil,I am trying to make a point that it can be detrimental to your brain.

I understand what you mean and I use that language rather loosely.

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

Look at these studies: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/porn-use-sex-addiction-studies/studies-linking-porn-use-to-poorer-mental-emotional-health-poorer-cognitive-outcomes .

That's rather a long article. It could take a lot of time to read and check out the resources and their validity, but nevertheless I've skimmed through the headlines and found this one interesting: “I believe it is wrong but I still do it”: A comparison of religious young men who do versus do not use pornography (2010)

I could only think of this as a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. If you believe porn is bad for your health, then it will become so. This is not exclusive to religious people. It could very well apply to scientific people like yourself who believe that science gives you the truth. And by the way, correlation does not mean causality. Just because there appears to be correlations between consuming porn and some negative things doesn't mean that porn is causing them neither directly nor indirectly. In fact, that also dismisses a lot of other factors, including psychological, like deep unconscious beliefs.

Also, similarly, we could say the same things about the internet, phones, computers, TVs, video games, etc... These are all new technologies that I think there is a calibration process happening.

At all times, people find things to attach to in order to fill out their spare time with. Before the invention of these modern technologies, people used to be addicted to story-telling. I remember my grandmother used to memorise lots of stories (she lived in early radio days), a skill I don't find necessary in our time. I'm sure there were other things to be addicted to before that. I guess that's just the nature of human beings. There's always a void that we try to fill. But you can't blame the filler. You should instead blame the human.

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

 @The observer since you barely consume it,why do you talk about it?

Is like Someone says that regular consumption of alcohol is not health.

And you,one who drinks alcohol once a year,come and say : Shut the fuck up,stop demonisiong alcohol consumption that's ridiculous haha.

I'm talking about regular consumption here,if you consume it once a few months that's fine.

I don't rarely consume porn. I watch some every other day, like for 30 to 60 minutes every couple of days. It has its place in my sketchy schedule, but I don't consider myself addicted to it. I just use it as a tool when I feel my body needs it.

1 hour ago, freeman194673 said:

Btw,people used to believe that cocaine was good,Sigmund Freud for example was treating his patients with it.

Everything has its pros and cons. If the cons outweigh the pros, then that's a problem. For me, porn is the best alternative to having to be stuck in a relationship or in chasing one just to fulfil a basic need. I need that time and focus to be directed towards other important things for me. Although, I admit, maybe this easy access is somewhat of a problem for our rewarding psychological systems. Then again, that could be the case with sex in long-term relationships/marriages. Besides, I am still able to work effectively, so that's a non-issue. In fact, I can be more focused than if I was deprived all the time.

Edited May 12, 2020 by The observer