Objection To Leo Guras Certainty

[UnconsciousHuman]

Actually read the whole thing thoroughly!!!!

Alright I sent Leo this message privately but he hasnt seen it so I'll post it here. I also think its good to see what you forum users think

Hey Leo,

This is not meant to be harsh and I trust that you can digest this message.

I've observed your stuff for quite a while now and I'm starting to see that certainty is becoming a habit of yours, despite the fact that the more non-dual experience you have the more you tend to go back and dismiss somethings you've said in the past, but here the thing is that the things you dismiss then you still possessed utmost certainty while saying them, my objection is, how can you be certain of your work now if in the future you might dismiss the present you. Do you see what I'm saying? 

I think there are great limitations to your work, in the sense that there can only be communicated so much without turning into a dogma and belief system for many others. 

My objection is that the tonality and way of presenting this information you've cooked up is that it is conveyed as the end all be all and that to me is just another religion. 

To empathize from your perspective It can be hard to be continuously working on your product and selling it at the same time, so the intuitive reaction I had the other month when I saw you online was. Leo takes some time off, to integrate and better understand whats going on. Then boom you upload a video saying your taking time off for "healing" I say not just for healing purposes but also for a better understanding of God.

There are a lot of people that mistake you for a prophet, and feel guilt to dismiss or tell you if they disagree with you because they would probably rationalize it as "He just knows more than I do". This is why you see people on the forum suck up to you constantly. Also, I must mention a post you made on your blog you did I while back where you had a conversation with God where the dialogue consisted of you asking God why it is he chose you to be his messenger. This isn't a good sign in my eyes, there has to be delusion here. Surely you can see why you talking to god and god telling you he has chosen you is just egomania even if it is coming from a selfless place, this is a common self-image of schizophrenics, my uncle was one he shared that belief with you.

My advice is to be less sure, and more transparent.

Lastly, how come users can't see when you visit someone's profile or when you edit your posts, why is that hidden? Does it not make you seem just that much more perfect and saintly? This is what I perceive Leo...

I know this post seems critical because it is to some degree but it is not coming from a place of negativity.

Wishing you the best of health during this difficult pandemic.

Edited April 18, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[DivineSoda]

Leo has many flaws that I can see, as you've mentioned a few.. but at the end of the day, I know it doesn't really matter. Like honestly, why should I bother myself with any of that. His videos have been an absolute gift to me and my girl. That's more than I can ask of any person. 

Wherever he falls short, that's his thing. It has zero impact on me. In fact, it inspires me to create something even better of my own. So to that I say thank you. 

What's far more interesting to me than Leo's flaws is my own flaws. I choose to put my energy there instead (when I'm conscious). I would do some inquiry into why you felt the need to tell Leo this and then post it publicly on his forum. I know one obvious answer is that you care and you're just trying to help him and others. But there's more I think. Pull at that thread and see what comes up for you. That's all that really matters. It's not about Leo ❤️

[RendHeaven]

@DivineSoda Epic response

[Preety_India]

@DivineSoda Beautifully said. 

 

 

[DrewNows]

I can only imagine this is some sort of proposition for Leo’s Uncertainty Principle

if that’s the case, I’m all for it 

leo has quite the fortress, or kingdom, rather, of knowledge yet sometimes there doesn’t seem like enough open doors

then again, maybe that’s just how life appears through the ?

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Preety_India @RendHeaven

@DivineSoda You yourself made a post telling Leo to take his own advice. You recognize Leos tonality just as well as I do. 

You focused on your own flaws and thats great man! But I dont see why you cant point out some one elses... That makes no sense to me.

In your reply to me you imply to just focus on my self and dismiss pointing out some important crutial egotistical behavior that I see. I say naaah, Im bored af during this quarantine so I might as well say my thought?

And finally, dont like it how you try to play the altruistic higher ground by dismissing what I posted in a non direct way when you yourself see the same thing. Haha

Much love stay healthy.

[Preety_India]

@UnconsciousHuman

I kinda of just agreed with that post in general but I didn't put it in context with your post. My bad. Sorry. and now I see how it would make you feel. 

You're right that people should be more transparent. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Preety_India

[Hansu]

6 hours ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

There are a lot of people that mistake you for a prophet, and feel guilt to dismiss or tell you if they disagree with you because they would probably rationalize it as "He just knows more than I do".

Its not Leo's mistake that people are morons.

I dont recall Leo ever saying that he is the spokesperson of the Institute of ultimate truth, and even if he did, he shouldn't ever be put to that kind of pedestal by anyone.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Hansu

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Hansu it is implied that he is that. And lets be real for a second here, I think most people that watch Leo’s videos are empathetic and agreeable by nature so will proudly put someone on a pedestal if they like them and resonate with them enough.

[UnconsciousHuman]

I am not demonizing Leo, do not mistake me. I quite like the guy and his work, I am however speaking my mind about some things I noticed and don’t see others talking about.

[Hansu]

1 hour ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Hansu it is implied that he is that. And lets be real for a second here, I think most people that watch Leo’s videos are empathetic and agreeable by nature so will proudly put someone on a pedestal if they like them and resonate with them enough.

That's the ego placing a story where there is none to be found, and that's only human.

If you follow Leos teachings long enough, you should eventually realize that. Leo cant use his words to help anyone to stop putting him on a pedestal, that would only spin new ego stories about how he is "oh so humble".

Edited April 18, 2020 by Hansu

[Moreira]

I never trusted Leo when he said that consciousness exist outside the body like a orange or brick wall have consciousness.

I mean it can be this way, but if he doesnt explain me how this works I will never buy that afirmation.

Its typical of Leo telling shocking truths but never give the explanation of how and why.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Moreira

[Hello from Russia]

I think @Leo Gura should do an episode on the duality between being open-minded and having a strong position\firm point or believe.

From my experience I founded that you can be so unsure of everything and so openminded that you're not perceived seriously, you're basically a toxic sceptic, that frankly, probably can't do anything firm with his life (because it requires a certain degree of assertiveness). Which, I thin, there is truth to that

And on the other hand, when you're too assertive at certain ideas\positions you may find yourself sort of closing yourself to other viewpoints just for the sake of "controlling the information intake" and not getting distracted. And you're getting perceived as a stubborn dogmatist 15\10 times when you do this by others.

And sometimes you indeed miss a valuable thing or two when you're being too assertive. This stuff is so hard to balance. And it requires so much nuance. I typically preach the balance of openmindedness\assertiveness, but every time I am assertive at something people perceive me as some stage blue\orange rigid person because they can't understand the nuance of what I'm telling.

People are generally bad as fuck at understanding nuance. It's so sad. From my social circle, only like 1-5% of people can maintain a nuanced conversation that has at least some fraction of "relativity" and the grey area in them. And the saddest part it happens usually about "unimportant" topics. When the topic touches their survival issues more directly, they become rigid as fuck in their views and points. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[UnconsciousHuman]

39 minutes ago, Hansu said:

That's the ego placing a story where there is none to be found, and that's only human.

If you follow Leos teachings long enough, you should eventually realize that. Leo cant use his words to help anyone to stop putting him on a pedestal, that would only spin new ego stories about how he is "oh so humble".

A comment on the first paragraph, Leo posted on him blog a while back (I cannot find it anymore) of him having a conversation with god where Leo asks god “Why me, why have you chosen me to be a messenger?” and god replied something like “because you are special...”!?!! So I am not placing a story where there is none to be found.

A comment on your second paragraph, Leo makes it easy to put him on a pedestal an example is given in the few lines above. No it would not spin new ego stories if he was more transparent and told people in a coherent way why not to put him on a pedestal. 

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Hello from Russia You can be assertive in a considerate manner where the other side doesnt perceive you as a stage blue dogmatists.

Edited April 18, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[integral]

From MBTI, hes an INTP, a self over tribe imbalance. 

 

 

[UnconsciousHuman]

@integral Interesting stuff, what comes immediately to mind is when Leo says, I have reached levels of knowing god no other human being in history has reached, definately could be called as self over tribe. I think the whole personality types thing is a useful way to categorize people and understand certain behaviours and why they are done but it does not explain everything and can certainly be very confusing as you're always trying to stick on the theme of MBTI on to people and events and sometimes things just can't be explained using those terms. It has its limitations in my opinion, I don't think you can fit anyone person into a single category all the time, its just nonsense.

Edited April 18, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Hello from Russia]

1 hour ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Hello from Russia You can be assertive in a considerate manner where the other side doesnt perceive you as a stage blue dogmatists.

Of course, considering the perceiving party is conscious enough. It totally depends on the level of conciousness of the watcher. And how much close you are to something they are not comfortable with discussing

Edited April 18, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Consept]

@integral Interesting, as an intp myself i can confirm it can be like that. Theres definitely the urge to think that you know something definitely, mainly because were in our heads so much that we've just thought about things more than the average person and we pride ourselves on having sound logic. But what ive found is that there are a lots of blind spots and things you have to make a conscious effort to develop, the video talks about socially, thats definitely true, ive had to do that and its still not great.

In Leos case youre saying he speaks with too much certainty, taking the intp personality someone would only do this if they had thoroughly researched or whatever method was used and then come to a conclusion. What i think hes missing is that even if he is 100% sure  (which i dont think you can ever be but i understand how you can feel like that with mystical experience) he should appreciate that hes speaking to someone whos not 100% sure, its like a scientist saying ive studied this so its true with a lot of certainty. To really explain hed have to come down to your level and speak without so much certainty because it can be off putting even if it is the truth 

[neovox]

Leo says over and over and over again in his videos to not take any of this on as dogma, and to get off our asses and find out for ourselves. He talks about how we have to do our part and not make this into a religion or cult. How do we do that? Do the work. Become more conscious. He speaks with certainty because he has passion and charisma, but don't make this about him. Put in the work.