Purging Bullshitters

[SOUL]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is conditional. There is more.  Absolute Liberation is unconditional. 

Leo said in a video that everything is bullshit..... that is conditional, there is also unconditional absolute bullshit.

[SOUL]

@Raptorsin7  yes.

[Forestluv]

23 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Leo said in a video that everything is bullshit..... that is conditional, there is also unconditional absolute bullshit.

This type of rational thinking and dismissal won't allow space for the revealing of absolute liberation (or absolute peace). Yet it sounds like you are comfortable and content in an abiding blissful state, which is cool. It's a wonderful place to be. Enjoy. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Serotoninluv The purpose of this work is eventually stop doing the work. There is an end to all of this. That end is the beginning.

Not sure if @SOUL is there yet, but I wouldn't discount him being done based solely on the way he types.

[Preety_India]

I think self development is a permanent on going process, whether you awakened or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Preety_India

[SOUL]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This type of rational thinking and dismissal won't allow space for the revealing of absolute liberation (or absolute peace). Yet it sounds like you are comfortable and content in an abiding blissful state, which is cool. I've visited that place. It's a wonderful place to be. Enjoy. 

Slapping capital letters and the word absolute onto things doesn't change what it is...liberation is liberation, cessation of self suffering is what it is. It's also called 'nirvana'. Billions of people across the millennia would love to be it for even a moment and I wish as many that can experience it will be.

@Raptorsin7 I'm not here for you to believe my typed words, I'm simply pointing to the liberation that is at hand for any who allow it to be. The 'work' is often needed for healing and preparing just to do nothing, like you said. If the ego mind sucks us back into reacting and struggling then the self suffering will accompany that because we are behaving as if what we are isn't enough, that there is something unfulfilled.

An ego mind going apeshiat within us is difficult to not react to, to not struggle with so we meditate and do all of the 'work' to calm it, to quiet it.... but the calm, quiet mind isn't liberation in itself. A calm, quiet mind is more conducive to ceasing the struggle with the self for sure.

If we are dependent on the mind being this way to be at 'peace' we are just in a temporal expression of 'peace' and the ego mind will use that to instigate the struggle with self. It will attempt to disturb the peace so we go back to work making it still.

It's like trying to still a pool of water by physically trying to stop the turbulence, each movement causes more waves. Cease moving, stop the work and the water stills itself but to transcend the dependency on a still pool is ultimately to be the still pool regardless of the tsunami that may be going on around us.

Don't believe my typed words..... they are just stories I tell.

[Inliytened1]

"I'm not doing the 'work' because decades ago I have awakened to the realization there is nothing to do, no work, no accomplishment to achieve and no truth to attain."

Dude this topic is so old already.

One has to die before they as God realize that which died was an idea in the Mind of God.

But telling a newbie they are an idea and that they are God without them dying first isn't helping anyone.

This is like beating a dead horse with you guys proclaiming there is nothing to die.  There is nothing to die after it dies.  Reality is a strange loop and a paradox as it must be because it is One.

So there is an idea that has to die.  You said it yourself in another thread.  The ego exists but it exists as imagination.   

Spontaneous awakenings or deaths dont just happen unless one is crazy gifted and even then they probably endured a lot of suffering and selfishness and were on the brink of death anyway before it happened.

Others did contemplation or meditation.  Don't tell me you just realized it and that was that.  If you are awake that means your avatar has died and you are directly conscious that you are God.   That's fine.  But don't tell me it just happened out of nowhere one day.    Contemplation is considered practice.  I meditated for about a week before it happened on no pyschedelics but I'm a freak apparently.  And i have OCD and suffered greatly thru my own selfishness.

[Forestluv]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Serotoninluv The purpose of this work is eventually stop doing the work. There is an end to all of this. That end is the beginning.

That is one way of looking at it, which is partially true,. Yet, notice how there is a destination in the future (a place not Here or Now in which the work stops).

Saying "the work continues within a timeline" and saying the "work ends within a timeline", both involve a timeline in a relative context. They are both partially true and partially false. The phrase "the work ends within a timeline" is misleading because in the relative context of a being within a timeline, growth is infinite. 

In Absolute Now, it makes no difference if there is work, no work, suffering, no suffering, bliss, anxiety, tuna fish sandwiches or bird chirps. . . Yet it would also be misleading to say "it's just Here and Now". In a sense this is true, yet it is misleading because it will be interpreted by a seeker as "I don't need to do any work. There is no destination. I have already arrived. I can sit around, play video games and be lazy. Nothing matters". The problem with that is it's an intellectual construct without the underlying awakening. It is still a contraction within a self construct. I AM Perfect Now and i am a work in progress. . . there is an infinite amount of work and growth in a relative context. 

It's also misleading to say that Absolute Freedom is a place of abiding bliss, because that means Absolute Freedom is not a place of discomfort. Absolute Freedom is eternally present unconditionally. It is present during bliss, pain, love, terror, boredom, self-centered thoughts, peace etc. There is a relative freedom of bliss (relative to non-bliss) and there is a relative peace (relative to non-peace). As a relative experience, I've been through extended periods of continuous freedom, joy, bliss, peace etc,. - those are wonderful states - it is not "bad" or "wrong". Yet they are relative states (relative to non-freedom, non-joy, non-bliss, non-peace). A human can see such states in others and it can trigger a seeking desire to attain those states. Who knows, perhaps it's possible to maintain a relative blissful state for years or decades. If so, there is nothing "wrong" with that, yet there is more. That is relativity within absolute infinity. Personally, I'm more interested in exploring Absolute Truth, than seeking/attaining a relative blissful state. Such a state is distraction to exploring more expansive Absolute Truth. Getting locked into any relative state is a limitation. 

[SOUL]

40 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I think self development is a permanent on going process, awakening or no awakening.

Self development is a different focus than liberation but not separate. We can endlessly develop the self, continue to find life purpose and always evolve in infinite ways. There will always be a yearning for more and any satisfaction will experience will be tied to that development and can be taken away with it.

In liberation we can also self develop but it is from a place where the yearning has been quenched and the self suffering has ceased. In this well being our development is manifested from our existing fulfillment and not done in an attempt to fulfill so it cannot be taken away by the path of development or lack of it.

The type of harmony with well being that our life purpose's form takes in this state can feel  magical. Even if the circumstances of our life don't appeal to our concept of what we think makes us 'happy' or what we 'want' we can still find joy in it because we are in joy..... we en-joy life just because, it's in liberation from the struggle.

[Forestluv]

26 minutes ago, SOUL said:

.liberation is liberation, cessation of self suffering is what it is. It's also called 'nirvana'. Billions of people across the millennia would love to be it for even a moment and I wish as many that can experience it will be.

It sounds like you have attained a wonderful state of continuous being. Yet there is more that hasn't been revealed. What you are describing is a state that is not another state. Cessation of self suffering and nirvana is wonderful. I have visited that place for an extended period and it was awesome. I still re-visit that place at times. . . . Like you, I wish more beings can experience it. I'm not saying it isn't real. I'm not saying it isn't a profound realization. I'm saying it gets even more expansive than that contraction. . . You say you are in a continuous blissful space and that's awesome if that's what you want. Yet it is misleading to say that that space is "it". It may be "it" for you, it may be "it" for people seeking relief from discomfort, it may be "it" for people seeking nirvana. Awesome man. Thumbs up. High Five. . . Yet that is still a space that is not another space. . . Each time you say "this is it", that is a contraction - it is simultaneously saying "this is not that". You are missing a lot, yet it doesn't matter if you don't care. You are in your permanent blissful state - super duper - hang out there and enjoy it. 

To go to a deeper level of liberation, you would need to leave your current space of what you define as "liberation" and enter a space you would define as "non-liberation" and realize the deeper transcendent liberation in both. Yet you don't think this is possible and you have no curiosity, openness or willingness to explore. That's fine if you want to stay within what you define as "liberation".

When you wrote "liberation is liberation", you are a half-step to another transcendence. Yet when you claim "liberation is the cessation of self suffering", you contracted back. 

[SOUL]

@Serotoninluv You are conflating life purpose with liberation.... these are different but obviously not separate in the manifest.

If someone is in liberation and plays games all day who are you to say they aren't? I'm sure there was someone who pointed at the Buddha and said he was lazy for not meeting their expectations.

In liberation we bring 'nirvana' to our life purpose not derive nirvana from it because then we are dependent on the physical world to supply it..... is that what you are suggesting to do?....hmmm

[Derek White]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

@Derek White What do you consider 'enlightenment' to be?

I think it 'exists'. I don't think you can put it into words or communicate it, that would imply the person you are communicating to has already experienced it. Enlightenment is looking at reality the way it is. I'm trying to become more conscious at the present moment. There are things that I grasp and then lose, there are things I'm unconscious of, I want to understand reality at a deeper level than I'm currently at.

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

Why am I still here? You are aware of what a bodhisattva is, right? I remain in the manifest to let others know that liberation exists and they can also experience the cessation of self suffering. So this forum can serve as a way to express this to others.

To me you sound like a nihilist, which is perfectly fine, I am one too. I also realize that values, meaning, and importance are not real. They are created. I think many people here understand that too.

But that's not why we are here, we understand that well enough. One of the reasons we are here is because we want to understand reality at deeper levels, which won't happen if one sits at home playing video games, at-least not for everybody. I realize I don't have to do it: I choose to do it. 

You realize that everything is meaningless but do you realize how reality is manifested? Are you fully conscious of your unconscious thoughts? Do you care to understand other aspects of reality in depth? Do you care about these things? Because we care a lot and if you don't you're probably wasting your time here. People realize everything is meaningless here. That's not the point of this community.

[Derek White]

17 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

I still think a daily limit of like 5 posts a day would be pretty effective and would reduce the need for constant policing.

There really shouldn't ever be a need to post more than a few posts a day. Anyone who is posting more is either debating or engaging in unlimited monkey mind. 

A daily limit would be just like what nature does by imposing a 24 hour daily limit, or a 80 year limit, on human life. By knowing you only got so much time in the day, and only so many years to live, you stop bullshitting and you get to work. And even if you can't help yourself (which is natural, we all bullshit ourselves), at some point you get blocked and you are forced to stop. 

Oftentimes when you are forced to wait a few hours to say or do something, the ego energy tends to dissipate in the meantime, you forget about it and you move on. 

 

@Leo Gura I think this sounds like a good idea. Maybe you can put limits on how many times in a day one can reply to a thread. Like after a certain number of posts there is a time limit before one can post again. The moderators and you can be exempted from this rule. 

[Forestluv]

@SOUL I'm not saying you are wrong. You are explaining some deep insights that can be helpful to people. I'm not arguing with that. However, it's like you keep talking about Paris and can't see that Paris is within Europe. . . Paris is a wonderful city. I wish everyone could visit. And I think it's awesome to help people find Paris. 

You are using the term "liberation" in a particular context. Notice you keep saying "Liberation is. . . ", "In liberation we do this.. . . ", "Liberation involves. . . ". Those are great constructs that can be very helpful to people at a personal/human level. I am not talking about personal development or life purpose. Those are Tinker Toys compared to what I'm talking about. I am talking about something much more transcendent to that. It is transpersonal and transhuman. 

Just as you desire to show a transcendent liberated state to those that suffer, there is a wanting to show a transcendent state to those that have reached your transcendent state. It is not within the state of liberation you are describing (such as life purpose), it is transcendent to the state of liberation you are describing. Yet you don't have any resonance with this, which is fine. 

[SOUL]

@Serotoninluv All those conceptual absolute states are imaginary, they exist in the imagination. I have transcended all them to where even truth, capital T and all, doesn't exist, I have observed the origins of the manifest existence and transcended even those.

They don't necessarily help the people who are self suffering and can be a distraction. To use game terminology they are bonus rounds but if someone is chasing after those they can spend a lifetime looking for deep transcendent states and self suffer their whole life.

I'm more interested in pointing to liberation because without that then those deep transcendent states are just another life purpose that they may or may not achieve and can cause self suffering if one is dependent on them to justify their self identity.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Serotoninluv I have transcended all them to where even truth, capital T and all, doesn't exist, I have observed the origins of the manifest existence and transcended even those.

If you had, you would understand what I'm writing. 

I tried my best, yet I've got to move on now. Have a good night, SOUL. 

[SOUL]

@Serotoninluv Self suffering is the first layer of imaginary self identity experience and without liberation from that I see no other benefit to transcending all the other imaginary absolutes, it's like fancy wheels and stereo system on a car that doesn't run imho.

[SOUL]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If you had, you would understand what I'm writing.

That you think I don't understand what you are writing is in your imagination.

Good night. Peace.

[Derek White]

@SOUL Seems you ignored my comment.

 

[Lento]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

If someone was pushing an agenda of anti-religious / atheist dogmatic ideology - that also would not be tolerated on the forum.

Why not?! There's a lot of wisdom in atheism as well. What's the thing that would not be tolerated exactly? The orientation? The closed-mindedness? The impact? The person themselves? Or a mix of the above? I mean, sure, the person who is behaving as such won't be learning much, but what about everyone else? I personally find it very insightful to read opposing perspectives. I actually prefer that to reading convenient information. And as long as there's proper moderation, ideology vs. non-ideology wouldn't be an issue, would it? Because certainly, as ideology has its cons, but so does non-ideology. Everything has its pros and cons. Let's not reject ideology entirely just for having certain cons. Of course, in the extreme cases where things start to become toxic for others, there should be moderation, I'm not arguing against this at all.

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is welcomed on the forum. No one gets warnings or banned for sharing wisdom or seeking their personal development.

I won't argue about whether someone is seeking their personal development or not but I would like to hear a definition of 'sharing wisdom' here.

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I didn't say to demonize religion. Of course there is a lot of wisdom in everything, including religion. That is the whole point. Seeing that there is wisdom in everything is non-ideological. If someone was pushing an agenda of anti-religious / atheist dogmatic ideology - that also would not be tolerated on the forum. 

You may be referring to grey areas. Consider degree. For example, there was a previous user that kept posting horrific graphic images of human torture, suffering and death. And his writings were equally gruesome. He framed it as "freedom through death" as a way to fly under the radar. Should we say that all perspectives have value and should we allow the graphic imagery and writings that promote human torture, death and suicide? Would moderating this behavior be "wanting the person to behave a certain way and not some other"? I think most people on the forum would want some standard of behavior.

This is a nuanced issue. There are extremes and grey areas. Intention and impact can be straight-forward or difficult to determine.

As you say, some cases are hard to tell intent, others not so much. The user posting horrific graphic torture images wrote that he wanted to promote nonduality through the acceptance of human torture and to promote ultimate freedom through physical death and suicide. I think most people would agree this is clear intent. . . . Yet as you say, there are cases in which it is not easy to determine intent and cases in which intent cannot be determined. . . However, there are times that impact supersedes intent. What if the above user said his intent was good and that he was posting horrific images of human torture and death to help people? In this case, impact supersedes whatever intent he claims and he won't be allowed to post it.

I still wouldn't agree on the intention. They may be truthful and trying to help people, and they may be simply sick, evil, and cruel. This is always in the realm of assumption, I can't know with complete certainty unless they declare it.

I would say; let the members decide whether they find that kind of image-posting appropriate or not. If you (moderators) received many reports and requests complaining about the images being disturbing, you could create polls and let us vote for or against that 'approach' to non-duality. I think if the poster could provide an elaborate response explaining their perspective, that would be ideal, and we could be more open to them. Like I said, they may posses wisdom that I have no idea of yet!

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

The current spiritual atmosphere we enjoy on the forum isn't the natural default state of online forums . If this forum wasn't moderated it would devolve into a mess of namecalling, trolling, scammers, spammers etc. A lot of people would get sick of it and leave the forum to find another spiritual community. . . The moderators here put in a lot of work to allow for an atmosphere conducive to personal development and spiritual growth. It's easy to say that every comment has value and everyone should be allowed to express whatever they want when the forum is moderated. It's very different in an un-moderated forum filled with trolls, scammers, ideological dogma and people threatening each other. Check out unmoderated anything goes forums - nasty stuff.

This is a sure thing, and I'm very thankful for that. I can't express how much gratitude I feel for this forum and for you guys. I understand the importance of all the regulation you do, and I hope I didn't sound like I'm criticising you or your efforts. You're all doing a great job here, and that's why me and many others are able to express our thoughts freely even though we don't completely agree with each other. That's one thing that makes this place unique. I just think that it wouldn't become better if we cut a certain type of people.